Round or Square Tenons?

[Radek Kowalski]

Hey everyone. I am currently working on a tool chest. I am making the frame out of 6/4 stock. I would rather limit the use of nails so I want to try mortice and tenons for the first time. Is there any reason not to put the post on a lathe, turn the tenon round. Drill the mortice with a forester bit instead of doing the square mortice and tenons?

Thanks.

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Radek,

Probably more work and less strength than simply using regular ol' rectangular mortise and tenons. With M&Ts, there is no real reason you would need to use nails. You can elect to use either pinned tenons or draw bored tenons. Either will provide a mechanical advantage to plain M&T joinery.

How big is this tool box? 6/4 is pretty thick. I am assuming you are starting with 6/4 stock but will be thinning it down quite a bit? Fairly large tool chests were commonly made from 7/8" to 1" thick stock.

Take care, Mike

[Radek Kowalski]

Tool chest is around 24" long, 12" front to back and 16" high. I made panels, just like doors for the sides, back and top. I did not like the idea of both panels just touching in the corners. I plan to make a frame out of 6/4 stock square. Recess the doors into the frame. I hope that makes sense.

[Alan DuBoff]

Radek,

Not sure I understand your question, when you say "post".

I am guessing your talking of the vertical member (stile?) of the frame.

I don't know if there is an advantage either way, without knowing more details about your project. I take it your a lathe person that thinks in terms of round...;)

To me, square seems to be stronger, but it depends on the size, aspect ratios, size, and possibly types of wood.

Mike,

Were most of the tool box/chest frames done out of 4/4 in the past mostly? 6/4 sounds like a good size, to me. No tool box/chest is gonna be light. ;)

EDIT: I see our posts crossed Radek, that sounds ok to me using 6/4 for the frame with a panel. :)

[Radek Kowalski]

Alan, I think you got the idea. The panels are decent, they hold. They are like a door, 3/4 rail and stile. 1/4th panel. I plan to recess those into the frame. The only reason I figured I would do round is because I do not have a nice chisel set yet, nor nice hand saws.

-Radek

[Johnny Kleso]

You dont really need a good set of chisels, with a super cheap set the only down side is you will have to sharpen them more often..

I am thinking I would do a through tenon as for a big tool box it would add the most strenght..

You could even add wood dowel pin..

On the very easy side I guess you could use dowels and pin each joint with two or more dowels with a tiny brad in each dowel to stop it from coming loose..

[Alan DuBoff]

Radek,

You should get a couple chisels, and a handsaw or two. If you like, you can use dowels to hold everything together, which would require less work/tools, but eventually you will want hand tools for that type of work (i.e., m&t).

I guess the answer to your first question is, "Yes, if you do not have the proper tools to cut a mortise and tenon, that is a good reason to use the tool you have..."

I would drill and use dowels if I didn't have a couple chisels and a saw, but I have plenty of chisels and saws...

How can you not have chisels? Those are some of my favorite tools. Chisels and saws would be some of my first tools I would reach for to work wood.:o

[Frank Drew]

Radek

The problem with round tenons is the same as the problem with dowels (IMO) -- in a standard joint with parts at right angles to one another, most of the glue interface between hole and dowel is end grain, which isn't a good glue surface over time. Also, with inevitable wood movement, dowels tend to become ovals, which also detracts from the glue joint.

Stick with rectangular tenons, as the other posters have advised. If you use a router or or slot mortiser to cut the mortises, you can round the corners of the tenon.

[David Keller NC]

Radek - From the standpoint of strength, the size toolchest you've described will be plenty strong if you use modern glues and just nail it together. The question is more of how long it will last - my guess is probably 10-20 years unless it's stored outside. Eventually, wood movement will overcome the strength of any glue, even epoxy, but that might not matter to you if you're making a utility tool chest.

From the standpoint of round tenons, I'll bring up another point - you may have extreme difficulty getting tight, slip-fit joints doing this on a square frame with an hand-held forstner bit because it's difficult to get the angle of the hole exactly square to the face of the frame member.

So I'm going to suggest something unconventional - if you don't have the tools to do mortise and tenon joints (i.e., a saw filed rip, a chisel, a mortise gauge, and perhaps a shoulder plane), then put the chest together with pocket screws. No doubt this method is extremely non-traditional, but the jig for pocket screws is very cheap, and doesn't require any other auxillary equipment other than a drill. Biscuits would be stronger still (though probably not as strong as a well-executed M&T), though you'll have to buy or borrow a biscuit joiner to do it.

Then, as you make progress with your skills/tool set, you'll wind up making another chest, probably with more traditional means, to hold your expanding tool collection, and perhaps to change part of your design.

Point here is that like workbenches, you're likely not to be pleased with the design of a tool chest 5-10 years from now no matter how well-built it is, so it's debateable whether you should lavish a great deal of attention (and perhaps frustration) on learning a new joinery method just to get the chest done.

[Radek Kowalski]

I really like the Idea of Through Tenons and Mortices using dowel pins to lock them into place. I just rather not use nails just to try some new methods and to reduce nail holes. Square mortice and tenons it will be. I do not have a proper set of chisels yet, only for one reason. Money. I will figure something out until that time. Thanks.