Any hints on the Freud Crown Molding Set

[Russell Tribby]

I recently picked up four bits from Freud's Crown Molding set. Does anyone have any experience with this set. I tried it out this afternoon and had a really difficult time getting a consistent cut. The profile removes more from the bottom of the board than the top so only the top portion of the board is riding on the fence. Any variation on the pressure applied to the board or even a miniscule tilting of the board results in a messed up cut. I thought about putting a subfence on the lower portion of the fence to support the stock but then that would have to be changed or added to with each pass, it just wouldn't be practical. Any thoughts?

[Peter Quinn]

Consider using a piece of stock 1/2" wider than your desired finished molding width, and leaving 1/4" 'legs' at the top and bottom of the profile that will ride the fence during molding for stability. These can be ripped off later as part of creating the back cuts for the spring angle, or they can be ripped straight if you are using another cutter to create the back cuts.

Also consider doing this molding in multiple passes. Thats a big cut for a router in one pass.

[Russell Tribby]

I'm making multiple passes. It probably took about 5 or 6 passes to get to the final profile. I understand what you're saying about leaving extra stock and I'll try it tomorrow. I'll have to really raise the bit up high, not sure how that will work out. Even with multiple passes it looks like I'll still have quite a bit of hand sanding to do - there are quite a few ripples in the stock. Would lowering the bit speed change any of that?

[Charles McCracken]

Russell,

When setup correctly, there will be multiple parts of the profile that will be in contact with the fence on the last pass, both top and bottom. Stacked feather boards are a good idea. Due to the length of cut and potential runout and/or loose bearings in routers there can be some "whip" in the motion of the bit. To counter this, I advise to make multiple passes with the second to last leaving about 1/64" then make a very light last pass to clean up. There is a video of the process here that may be of help:
http://www.freudtools.com/p-187-wide-crown-molding-system.aspx

[Mike Heidrick]

Looks like a good bit for a horizontal mounted router/table (vs a vertical mounted standard router/table).

[Russell Tribby]

Russell,

When setup correctly, there will be multiple parts of the profile that will be in contact with the fence on the last pass, both top and bottom. Stacked feather boards are a good idea. Due to the length of cut and potential runout and/or loose bearings in routers there can be some "whip" in the motion of the bit. To counter this, I advise to make multiple passes with the second to last leaving about 1/64" then make a very light last pass to clean up. There is a video of the process here that may be of help:
http://www.freudtools.com/p-187-wide-crown-molding-system.aspx

I was using stacked featherboards. I think my problem was that I eventually removed too much stock. I made multiple passes but I got to the point where there was a slight blemish in each pass so that I had to go back through again. Of course each time I did that I removed more stock. It's my first time using this set so I expected a learning curve with it. I'll watch the video and take another crack at it. Thanks.

[Brian D Anderson]

I made crown using the MLCS bit, which is similar to the Freud bits (with just the one bit, you get the same profile on the "top" and "bottom" of the molding)

I'm not sure I can help too much, but what I did was make a custom tall fence for my router table:

http://www.jfreitasphotography.com/Temp/tallfence.jpg

I also started out with thicker stock than they recommended . . . closer to 7/8". I figured it would give me more room to play with. So what if the crown is thicker than normal in the end. Like you, I ended up making about 5 or 6 passes. And yeah, the last one needs to be very light, but the others have to be too. Even with all the feather boards and tall fence, there were still "chatter" marks I'll call them. You're right, you'll need to do some hand sanding. I'd recommend the profile sanding pads:

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/woodworking/sandingshaping/68z8201-dsp.jpg

I was lucky in that my molding was only going to be used in maybe 14" pieces, so I made my boards long enough to be able to cut around bad defects.

Here's a look at the finished product:
http://www.jfreitasphotography.com/Temp/Columns6.jpg

So yeah, I don't know if I helped much. The real answer is probably buy a shaper and a power feeder. :) After making mine, I said I probably wouldn't do it again. But it was fun trying.

-Brian

edit: Not sure if this tells you much . . . in fact I think I ended up using the Freud instructions over these, but anyway http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/graphics2/TM50multimold.pdf

[Chip Lindley]

Full profile routing is entirely possible when we reverse our thinking about fences and feather boards. Think how the famous Williams & Hussey moulder works. The cutter head is cranked down into the work as little or much as desired. The work moves past the cutter on a fixed table.

My Weaver fixture for cutting the female part of cope and sticking pushes the work away from the cutter against an outside fence. The aux. fence can be fixed at a point where only a minimum face cut is taken on the stock. Shims are added each pass to position the work closer to the cutter, until finally a full clean-up cut is taken, including the full profile of the crown cutter.

A low-tech version of this fixture could be homemade for a router table with higher fence and hold downs for taller crown moulding, but the premise is the same! No need for a shaper and power feeder unless you just feel the "need." Enjoy!!

[Peter Quinn]

I have never figured out how those bits are supposed to work to make enough crown molding for a room or a house? I can see walking through that process for small pieces or elements for a piece of furniture, but unless you want to emphasize your ability to produce clean scarf joints in hardwood, you will need to be able to run 12'-16' material in many cases. Very difficult with a hand feed situation.

I just don't see this working on a router table without considerable sanding and waste. On the shaper I have a power feed, on the W&H (or shop Fox in my case) I have a power feed. Through molders have the equivalent of at least four power feeds and 5 heads to perform different cutting operations in stages.

The Freud video is well done, but it fails to explain how one can reasonably produce stock in the lengths desirable for this type of architectural molding. Frankly a 5 1/2" crown would be no joy to make on most shapers either. I doubt adding a power feed to a router table would be the solution either considering how much bit is sticking up in the air to push on the router's shaft. I guess I am wondering if they really expect you to be able to produce a house full of molding with this set up, and will you still enjoy wood working once you have?

[Brian Peters]

Well put Peter; I agree. Even on a shaper at minimum 3hp with a stock feeder it's hard to produce crown without sanding and it still requires some effort. With a router table and a 2-3hp var speed router and a bit like that? I can't even imagine doing it by hand even for just a small short run for a bookcase. Not to mention it would be cheaper to just buy the moulding or have someone run it for you locally than it is to try and mill and make it.

[Rick Fisher]

I always wanted to put a baby feeder on my router table for stuff like that.
I have a shaper with a feeder but I also have an much bigger inventory of router bits than shaper bits.

[Russell Tribby]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Brian, I ended up making a fence similar to yours but without the track for the featherboards at the top. I wish I had. I finally clamped a piece of stock to the top of the fence to keep the stock against the table. I'll have to make a second fence similar to yours. I got a good deal on these bits and bought them with the intention of using them for crown on built-ins and the like. It took me three trys to finally get something that I could use and I'm still really not pleased with the finished product. There are a lot of chatter marks, even after making a very shallow final pass. Any little variation in the feed will mess up the profile. I ruined two pieces of 6' alder because at some point during the cut the stock moved up about 1/16" and it screwed the whole piece up. I agree with most of you in the respect that there's no way that I would run anything longer than 6-7' through these bits, it's just not manageable. Next time I'll start with thicker stock, as Brian suggested, in case I need to start with a fresh face after a couple of passes.