Sharpening Crisis: Need to start over

[Russ Kay]

I was getting ready to leave for the drive down to Berea KY for the Woodworking in America conference. I had to get together my sharpening gear (I've been using mainly ceramic stones and diamond paste over the past few years), and ...

Consternation!

I can't find ANY of it. In thinking about it, I'm not even sure that I've seen it since we moved into this house (and this shop) four years ago. Of course, a lot has happened to distract me in the interval -- my wife died, my kidneys failed, I had a kidney transplant, various other health complications. The net result is I didn't spend much time in the shop for a couple of years, and have only recently gotten back into woodworking.

But how do I sharpen my planes and chisels? Before going further, I should confess that I collect knives and with them I'm a sharpness freak. There's nothing that cuts better than a properly convex ground, honed and stropped knife blade (I'm a real fan of Bark River knives from Michigan). But I recognize that chisels and planes are different, they need a flat-ground edge and different equipment to maintain sharpness.

So here I am with NOTHING. (I'm sure that the stuff is SOMEWHERE in the house, but a determined search hasn't turned it up, and I'm going to run out of time as I leave for KY tomorrow morning.)

So I figure that I'll just have to start over and get some new stones and such. And the show in KY should be a good opportunity and offer some selection to choose from. But which ones?

I've used oil stones in the past and didn't find them very useful or efficient. Diamond stones cut fast, but they don't go very fine. Diamond paste is, on balance, a nuisance to work with and I don't think I want to go down that road again. Ceramic stones (Spyderco) have worked well for me in the past, but very few people seem to like them. I used waterstones during a course I took 20 years ago, but I don't know much about them, even though they seem to be most folks' favorite. I did try the Scary Sharp sandpaper system a couple of times, and ... I don't know, it's cheap but is it really good enough?

So I'd like to hear folks' opinions on what I should do. I'm trying to keep a very open mind, acknowledging that I don't have all that much experience and that my present opinions aren't worth much because they're based on not enough (and not recent) experience.

HELP!!

-- Russ

[Wilbur Pan]

If you are really starting from scratch and you are sure you find your old stuff soon, what I would do is not worry about it until you get to Berea, then give the sharpening stones/systems you see a hands on trial.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I think Wilbur gave some good advice. I recently started a "sub $250 sharpening setup" thread, it should still be on the first page of the neanderthal forum, which might be a god read. I am sure there will be several vendors present at Berea, just try several products and make your own mind.

As for the actual products, I would seriously consider Shapton stones. They are ceramic waterstones but do not behave like traditional waterstones. They stay flat much longer, no need for excessive hydration (just a few sprinkles from a spray bottle seem sufficient) and they cut very aggressively even at higher grits (the higghest I have seen is a 30K Shapton). I recently switched from the sandpaper based ScarySharp to the Shaptons and I am quite satisfied. Considering your self profile you will probably be a good cantidate for a strop with some polishing compound as well.

[Johnny Kleso]

I have tried about every systemout their..

My suggestion is buy a WC slow speed 8" grinder on sale for $79 and a soft arkansas stone and a 4,000 water stone should take care of all sharpeing..

You could add a 8" MDF disc on the grinder and load it with green honing compound and use just the grinder and lap with out bench stones as well with the bench stones for a final lapping of the edge..

[Russ Kay]

Had a great time at WWIA in Berea. Took a fabulous class in basic sharpening taught by Deneb Puchalski, a Lie-Nielsen demonstrator. He showed his way, which relies on two Shapton stones (1000 and 8000 grit), a home-made jig to accompany his inexpensive Eclipse honing guide, a granite plate and stick on sandpaper. He uses the paper and granite in lieu of a grinder when one's not handy, and in remarkably short time he resuscitated someone's grandfather's old smoothing plane blade, taking the pronounced camber out of it at the same time.

Through the generosity of one of the vendors, Harrelson Stanley of Japanese Tools, I was able to borrow some Shapton stones for the workshop, and I was impressed with how well they worked. Turns out Harrelson lives only 40 minutes away from me, so I'll visit him when I get home and see about getting my own stones.

BTW, Deneb also taught a hands-on workshop on bench planes and that was really helpful tool. For the first time, I face-planed a board (with my LN low-angle smoother) and I think I have enough incentive to try it again.

[Johnny Kleso]

Sounds like you had a nice time..

IMHO when it comes to sharpening theirs several different ways to come up with a razors edge..

Depending what your sharpening and the state of condition of the blade plays a big roll in what method I would choose...

Always keep an open mind to learn a new way and never think your way is best is my motto :)

[whit richardson]

Hey Russ I was in some of those sessions too. I've been told you need a leather strop or something like that for the final honing but none of the guys presenting the sharpening talked about needing one. ?

Deneb was good, I had Adam Cherubini and Ron Hock too although Ron really didn't add much. They differed on cambered vs. straight blades for preference and I tend to side with Adam about cambered being better.

Seeing and using the Shaptons makes using my standard water logged Kings seem kludgy.

[Jim Koepke]

Hey Russ I was in some of those sessions too. I've been told you need a leather strop or something like that for the final honing but none of the guys presenting the sharpening talked about needing one. ?

A razor edge can be achieved without the honing. I strop mostly to remove any wire edge or burr after sharpening. Sometime it is done on my pant leg, sometimes on a strop, sometimes on a piece of scrap wood.

jim

[whit richardson]

A razor edge can be achieved without the honing. I strop mostly to remove any wire edge or burr after sharpening. Sometime it is done on my pant leg, sometimes on a strop, sometimes on a piece of scrap wood.

jim

Thanks on that one.

[Johnny Kleso]

The method I use to remove a feather edge is like what old time barbers did but I do it with my final honing stone..

I sharpen the back with five stroke then the bevel and do that a few times like stropping a razor, this way the feather edge falls off and is not torn off all at once...

This is just a method I learned from one of my machine shop teachers for sharpening dies and such...

[Keith Cruickshank]

Russ - it's good you are back on the shop. Great therapy for us all isn't it.

I read your thread and thought you might find the following video to be of interest - perhaps spot on regarding your question. The video features Craig Vandall Stevens who is truly an authoritative expert on sharpening. He's clearly a waterstone advocate, but what is interesting about Craig is that he has, over the years, very systematically tested various types of stones and approaches to sharpening including the use of traditional natural Japanese stones. He has become an advocate of the Shapton ceramic stones with some exceptions. He also is open to using lower cost stones with the right strategy. Here is the link to that video which you might find useful:

http://woodtreks.com/selection-care-and-feeding-of-waterstones/948/

[whit richardson]

I used my soaked King waterstones last night to put an nice edge on my barely used Irwin chisels, all new. Finally I can get a micro bevel and shave hair on my hand! I'll use my Japanese stones until Santa see's my list for some Shaptons to replace them. Sorry Lee Valley but I'll be passing on the waterstone tub system for a cheap spray bottle and less fussing in the shop for sharpening.

Now if I could just create a level 1/8" cut in my test board using these sharp chisels....

[Jim W. White]

Keith,

Thanks for the link to Woodtreks. Lot's of great video's there. I just burned an hour and barely scratched the surface. Luckily my wife is not here this morning to observe my lack of productivity :D

Jim in Idaho

[Russ Kay]

The Shapton stones arrived, and they work great. All my plane irons are now really sharp. And I found that using a honing jig really does make a significant difference in how good an edge I can get.

It's been snowing here, and I had to get out the snowblower to clear the driveway. Got it mostly done, and the machine broke. Will not move. So I went to the basement to get a small tarp to cover it up (it was snowing again). And underneath the tarp was an old tin box from a fancy commemorative Monopoly set. It was rather heavy. Because inside was ALL my old sharpening stuff -- ceramic stones, a couple of old oil stones, diamond paste, miscellaneous other stuff.

I'm glad to have it all back, but I think I'll stick with the Shaptons for regular sharpening.

-- Russ

[Johnny Kleso]

Russ,
I'm glade to hear I'm not the only one loosing tools for several months :)

[Bill White]

Knew that you'd find 'em as soon as ya spent some dough.
I use the water stones and a honing guide I got from the old AMT outfit.
Made a paddle strop on which I use the green honing compound. For the initial grind I have, and use, the old trusty....my Makita water grinder. Why nobody mentions this rig is beyond me.
Glad you're gettin' some of the bad stuff behind ya.
Bill

[Eric Brown]

We all lose things at one time or another. I was recently digging around the stuff in my basement and found a full sized tablesaw. I had completely forgot it was there!
Seems it got burried under a board and became legs for a junk bench.

Glad to hear you found your sharpening stuff and hope you stay healthy.

Eric

[Wilbur Pan]

And underneath the tarp was an old tin box from a fancy commemorative Monopoly set. It was rather heavy. Because inside was ALL my old sharpening stuff -- ceramic stones, a couple of old oil stones, diamond paste, miscellaneous other stuff.

I just know that there's a can of Top-Cote in my basement somewhere. I've been looking for it forever. I also know that once I buy another can of Top-Cote, the first one will show up.

The really stupid thing is that a while ago, I actually found it, and said to myself, "So that's where I put it!" And then I left it there, so I could forget where it was all over again.

[David Martino]

I just know that there's a can of Top-Cote in my basement somewhere. I've been looking for it forever. I also know that once I buy another can of Top-Cote, the first one will show up.

The really stupid thing is that a while ago, I actually found it, and said to myself, "So that's where I put it!" And then I left it there, so I could forget where it was all over again.

:eek::eek::D Finally, a man after my own...
Sorry, what was I saying?