African vs Honduran Mahogany

[alex grams]

There is a local guy supposedly selling about 500bf of Honduras Mahogany. I've worked with African, but no exposure to Honduras. Can someone give me a good outline on confirming which species it is by looking at it?

To make this more difficult, I am red/green color blind. Not full on, but to a mild degree. Lets just say I grew up on the Red River between Texas and Oklahoma, and there is no such thing as red clay!!!

I've heard of the grain switching in African Mahogany, but this seems to not exist in the Honduras variety? Any other information/photo guides?

Thanks in advance.

[David Keller NC]

In general, there's no way to reliably tell the difference between Khaya species (african mahogany) and Swietenia species (Honduran and Cuban mahoganies) by color, or even appearance, alone. A lot of Khaya is ropey-figured. That is, it has "ribbon stripe" figure where the tree grew in a clock-wise direction for a few years, then reveresed direction and grew in a counter-clockwise direction. However, this figure is also present in "genuine mahogany" as well, so it's not a reliable indicator.

Depending on what you want it for, it may not make any difference. My experience with power-tool working in african mahogany is that it behaves almost identically to its South American counterpart (the trees aren't really all that related, but they're both called "mahogany" in the trade). Carving, however, will tell the tale. SA mahogany generally carves beautifully, with little tear-out. African mahogany is difficult to carve - my impression is that the fibers aren't bonded all that well to one another, and unless you're carving directly with the grain, it tears out badly.

[Rick Levine]

I own this camera (or rather, one just like it) and it's made of Honduras mahogany. It is considered a very stable wood. The box joints are cut to a tolerance of 1/1000's of an inch according to the manufacturer. That should give you an idea of how stable it is.

[Mark Singer]

African is not nearly as stable.

[Marcus Ward]

I own this camera (or rather, one just like it) and it's made of Honduras mahogany. It is considered a very stable wood. The box joints are cut to a tolerance of 1/1000's of an inch according to the manufacturer. That should give you an idea of how stable it is.

The camera in that picture is made from Cherry. I had one. :)

Sorry, no contribution to the actual thread except extreme jealousy. If it's as pricey as true honduran mahogany is, I'd have it inspected by someone who knows for sure.

[Frank Drew]

In general, there's no way to reliably tell the difference between Khaya species (african mahogany) and Swietenia species (Honduran and Cuban mahoganies) by color, or even appearance, alone.

I'm not sure I agree with this; there's perhaps some Swietenia that look like Khaya, but I've never seen any African that looked at all like top quality Central or South American.

There's way too much looseness in calling various woods "mahogany", IMO; I wish the trade would tighten up their terminology.

[Rick Levine]

Marcus,

I said I have one like the one in the photo. I bought mine close to 20 years ago and it is definitely Honduras mahogany. I know because I talked to Ron Wisner when I ordered it. The one in the photo is from their website. I didn't feel like taking mine out of the case the make a picture of it but if you want to see it I'll be glad to do that. If you check their site it says they make them from both. Here is a quote from the site:

"The mahogany and cherry we use is the finest, quarter sawn, straight grained, pattern grade stock available. All lumber is hand picked, re-sawn in our own plant from rough boards, and further graded into bed, frame, back and other components."

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/progress.gif

[Marcus Ward]

I'm sorry, mine was an expedition model, made entirely from cherry. I think he only uses mahogany on the heavier models. I really wasn't aware he used mahogany at all. I've been tempted to build an 11x14 or something since I got rid of my 4x5. I have the tools now to do it. I apologize for the blatant hijack.

[Brian Knop]

I made a high boy from African Mahogany a very difficult wood to work. I would go with Honduras. With African you spend alot of time fighting the grain.

[Jim Tobias]

Alex,
My personal experience with working with the 2 varieties(Honduran and African) can be best summed up this way, African mahogany can be worked with and can demonstrate some very nice variations in both grain and color pattern. Honduran mahogany is a pleasure to work with and has a much more consistent grain pattern and color.
Again, this has been my experience. I like both, but cannot deny some occasional frustration working with the african mahogany.

Jim

[alex grams]

Thanks for all of the advise. However, I will consider myself fortunate that it is being offered at a price that would make it a deal for it being either African or Honduran. So for 3$/bf, while I would like to know which it is for sure, I will be happy with either as long as it is good solid dried mahogany.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thanks for all of the advise. However, I will consider myself fortunate that it is being offered at a price that would make it a deal for it being either African or Honduran. So for 3$/bf, while I would like to know which it is for sure, I will be happy with either as long as it is good solid dried mahogany.

$3.00!!! I doubt it is anything but African for that price, but just in case, and you have extra, I know a guy who lives in western Nebraska that would sure like to buy some...

[Per Swenson]

I happen to know a few things about Mahogany.
If you really need to know, figure out how to call me.

[Per Swenson]

I'm sorry that was pretentious.
Just go here.
Combination of African and Honduran

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26352554@N02/show/
Per

[Jim Becker]

I will add, that you might want to take a look at Liptus as a potential alternative species. I know that Per saw this stuff at the same industrial show I did, too. (Did you ever buy and try, Per?)

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I made my first project last year using African Mahogany. I noticed no difference in the way it machined or hand worked versus Honduras or Philippine.

I wish I got the $3/bdft pricing. I think I paid over twice that.

-Jeff :)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y84/Beff2/DSCF1017-1.jpg

[Jack Briggs]

Mahogany is a wood that is very important to me. I have used both African (Khaya ivorensis) and Honduras (Swietenia macrophylla). The African mahogany seems to exhibit the interlocked grain even in rift sawn samples; in Honduras it seems to only appear in quartersawn pieces. The color is often a giveaway, as well. African Khaya seems to have a more pinkish hue, whereas Honduras swietenia is more tan to red/brown in color. Workability is definitely a factor, too. Although I've had samples of South American swietenia that was soft, had fuzzy grain, and was difficult to machine without significant tearout of the grain. But swietenia species are almost always more stabile, dimensionally, than the Khaya species.



Cheers,

[alex grams]

Thanks again for all of the info. And per, that bar was amazing.

While I agree with the pricing being low enough to make me think it would be nothing but African, the guy also seemed pretty confident in his response it was Honduran. Also, it was from a local cabinet shop that specialized in wood vents/shutters, so not someones personal stock they are trying to offload.

Either way, it will hopefully still be there this weekend and I will be able to grab some of it. I will post pics when/if anything comes of it.

[David Keller NC]

Alex - That price is indeed cheap enough to where I'd be surprised if it's even African mahogany - you're getting into the price range of inexpensive North American secondary woods here, much less primary cabinet woods.

That said, there's an enormous difference in price for mahogany, usually predicated on the size, the texture (smaller grain is usually considered better), and any figuring. I've genuine mahogany in my shop that I paid $6 b.f. for, and some I paid over $20 a b.f. for - the former is "utility grade" S.A. mahogany in randomly-matched boards not over 11" in width and 4/4 thick, and the latter is extremely dense, hard and fine-grained mahogany in boards a minimum of 26" wide, 6/4 stock.

However, at $3 a b.f., getting anything usable is a deal, but exactly how good a deal it is (i.e., a good deal or outright theft! :D) depends a lot on what it looks like and the sizes offered.

[alex grams]

I was able to talk to a fellow creeker who has gone by and got a piece that was 2"x8"x12' for a solid price and he said he ran it through a planer and was happy with the wood, which gives me some optimism and gets me more excited to what all the guy has.

I think I am going to make my wallet cry this weekend...