Bob the Builder's (??) Small Shop

[Bob Hovde]

As much as I appreciate Frank Pellow's great new shop, I don't have the room, so I'm adding a 10'x10' room onto the back of my garage. I plan to extend the room into the garage about 6 ft to make a 10'x16' shop (to eventually house my PM 3520A and jet 18" BS - that I haven't used yet! :( ).

Having had the luxury of all of the advice Frank's received, I feel fairly confident I can pull this off. The picture is of my slab footing, with the root of my 80 ft pecan tree going through it. (The tree kept me from having a large shop.) I'll send pics as I go. Unfortuantely, my "helpers" are in Colorado, so they can't help me. (See Frank's latest pics of his hired help.)

Bob

[Tyler Howell]

Eye Spy Tree Root!
Bob the root moves so does your slab. Usually to the point of cracking A healthy tree can withstand loosing a toe to progress.
Another consideration is some fresh cut and stickered pecan drying for the shops future projects??

[Dick Parr]

I agree with Tyler, a little removal would be in order to eliminate future problems. The tree will survive the missing toe. But the addition will not survive the continued growth of the tree, it will always be moving and that lathe will not be sitting flat for long. You really should re-think before you pour.

[Bob Hovde]

Tyler and Dick,

I agree that it's a big risk, but that tree has been there a long time. A 6" root is more than a "toe." (Actually, there are two. One is below the other and you can't see it.) The root you can see already splits into two main branches and goes under the garage slab and comes out the other side. Pecan trees send their roots out a long ways - fairly close to the surface. I cleared out some 1-2" roots that had come to the surface and then turned and went back down. I'm hoping that the tree is at its max size and won't move too much. If it does, I go to Plan B - add onto the front of the garage. (The inspector said normally he'd ask me to cut the root out, but since its just 10'x10' and part of a garage, he let it go.)

Bob

[Jerry Olexa]

but that tree and its roots will eventually cause you problems. It will grow and put pressure on the slab. Consider removal (sad as it is)and maybe then u could make the addition bigger, The root (visible) is already an issue. I'd sure consider these things BEFORE you bring in CemenT!! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!! Do it right first so you won't have regret and a redo later. Good Luck! Jerry

[Jerry Olexa]

a quick P.S.: Seems like the tree is sizable. So consider aggressively cutting/removing down below ALL roots that you can get to. Get them out of harm's way. This should prevent heaving of your slab. Then pour the cement and see what happens. Should the tree die later, you'll have to deal w removal. At least you will have given the tree a chance to survive (the root systems spread out in ALL directions) and your slab/foundation is safe from later heaving/cracking!! You know best as only you can see/appraise the whole situation. I wish you well
Jerry

[Chris Padilla]

Bob,

I think it is pretty risky to leave a root that size. I look around at my sidewalk that used to have a small magnolia tree next to it and it is all heaved and pushed up from just small roots. I don't even think my tree's trunk was as big as that root. I'd ask more people about this...talk to some arborists and get their input. Be sure you have all the info you need plus some.

[Bob Hovde]

Yeah. All of you are right. BUT: I live in an historic district that has RULES! Cutting down a tree takes an act of Congress. So my thoughts were to tie the slab together with rebar and watch the connection to the garage slab (about 5 ft from the root in the picture - and also where the root disappears under the garage) for movement. That crack between the old and new slabs will be in plain view in the shop. If any movement occurs, I can go outside and cut the roots off where they go under the shop. (They will basically be exposed, anyway.) I think I'm going to press ahead and will let you know in the future if I'm lucky or not.

I had thought about building a floor on piers, but the garage's ceiling is only 8 ft, so I would have had to rebuild its roof, also. Too much for me at this point.

Bob

[Chris Padilla]

Bob, you won't be cutting the tree down...just a root! :)

I guess if you intend to pour over the root, you might make a "fair" amount of space around it. I guess it is like preparing for wood movement in a piece of furniture except this one will only (probably) get bigger! :D

[Rob Russell]

Bob,

I'll chime in as another "don't put a foundation on a tree root" opinion. Up north, we have to be careful because of frost heave. A tree root can move stuff over time just as much as frost can, especially a 6" root.

All it's gonna take is a good 'bama storm with that tree rocking around and you'll get movement from the root under the foundation.

I wouldn't want to hear this either, but I feel it's a bad idea to continue with your current construction plans.

What looks like rebar going over the root isn't going to tie the parts of the foundation together. The rebar will just bend and flex.

Why not go the pier route and leave the ceiling open? The extra height in the middle of the shop will help make up for lower ceilings around the perimeter of the shop.

Rob

[Tyler Howell]

Bob,
As I was anchoring my chartered Cat in St Martin a few years back I about wet myself at the sight on shore. Dead ahead, the local taverna had built all the way around the tree Slab and all. plenty of expanssion joints, live inside and out the top.(we did have tostop in and sample the local spirts and inspect this tree:rolleyes: ) Let the historical committee chew on that sight a while.
God Love a tree! Anything worth killing a tree for is worth doing right! But I still gotta thumbs down.:o

I sliced two toes off a hackberry for my existing garage slab. About 8 and 10 inches in diameter. Talked to her real nice, told her how much we loved her and the gifts she shared. Then did it by hand with a scarey sharp double bitted axe. No Bob cat it can cause a split deep in the trunk.
That was 11 years ago and she is still puken them d#@Sn little berries all over the drive. ;)

Good Luck Buddy.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Here's what I would do....leave a 2-3" clearance channel all around the root when you pour the cement. I know this would be a hassle when forming, but you will not have a crack next year this time if you leave it room.

[nic obie]

Bob,

I'd just cut the roots right before the truck is scheduled to show up with the mud.

If the tree survives, that's good. If it does die off, it will take awhile and just look like it died from natural causes anyway.

Besides, unless the Historical Society has x-ray ryes and can see thru concrete, nobody will ever know. After all it is your tree.

[Jack Wood]

Nic you don't know the Twickenham Historical comittee(I'm guessing that's where Bob lives) They are one vigilant group. A few years back someone wanted to reside their clapboard house and they found a company that does historical recreations of clapboard in a synthetic material that looks just like wood. You couldn't tell unless you got right up to it and looked hard, but they turned down his "application" to do the job and forced him to use real wood. Major bucks and constant upkeep.:eek: So the tree in Bobs yard may be his on paper but he can't do anything without the consent of the board. Tough call for you Bob let us know how it turns out.