PDA

View Full Version : Great 3D Artwork Supplier



Derek Kern
11-06-2008, 1:44 PM
I know Gantry Co. has been brought up before on this forum but I just to throw some more recognition their way.

Lou Saye at the GantryCo.com has again supplied me with a great 3D file and the detail and crispness of the results are astounding. Lou has many pieces for sale and will even custom make a file for you. They are a great value considering their quality, uniqueness and the fact that you can use them as much as you want.

Some common thoughts on 3D engraving is that it takes to long and can not be done economically. I believe that as newer technology arrives, engraving speeds keep increasing and with Lou Sayes artwork that many people will be able to offer this service for a fair price to their customers.

Take a look at the latest file from Lou. I engraved into 1/4" Maple.

Margaret Turco
11-06-2008, 2:30 PM
That's beautiful Derek!

Frank Corker
11-06-2008, 3:19 PM
I tried the file from them a couple of years ago using acrylic, came out very detailed. Nice job you have done there. Any indication as to the price of the piece you have bought (if you don't mind saying of course)?

Derek Kern
11-06-2008, 3:46 PM
I don't mind sharing Frank. I believe the price on that piece was around 200 dollars. I see it as a bargain for unlimited use and its detail.

Bill Parker
11-06-2008, 4:18 PM
The only thing I never understood about this company, is why they charge shipping and handling to email you the files. However they do have some nice work.

Michael Kowalczyk
11-06-2008, 5:39 PM
Hi Derek,
Nice work. How long did it take and what is the actual size, what are your settings, wattage, speed, etc...

In order for this to be profitable and encourage others on the Creek to explore it further, you may want to donate this file and put a challenge that everyone who excepts it will have the file emailed to them and in return they must produce one on their laser and or CNC and provide a few pics, all specs, material(s) used and time study so that this can be an informative/educational post instead of just the WOW effect.

Please don't get me wrong, the WOW effect is great to see but knowing what your Kern laser's can do with higher wattage is a big difference from what most of us have. This way we can see what different laser brands with different wattage can do and have real world comparisons.

What do you think?

Thanks you and ...

Frank Corker
11-06-2008, 5:51 PM
That was the biggest problem for me. The guy at Gantry said my result wasn't going to be up to much, but it did okay, few runs but the effect was amazing none the less. It's a shame I can't get hold of more 3d stuff, I think it looks really neat.

George M. Perzel
11-07-2008, 7:20 AM
Derek;
That's awesome-best example of 3D engraving I have ever seen.
1.I noticed that you have a 400 watt machine-does it take that much power to do this kind of work?
2. What is the object overall size?
3. How many passes at what speeds and power settings?
4. What was total laser time to do thid?
Thanks
Best regards;
George
LaserArts

Mike Null
11-07-2008, 8:18 AM
Derek


Thanks for the post. That's beautiful.

Derek Kern
11-07-2008, 12:38 PM
Derek;
That's awesome-best example of 3D engraving I have ever seen.
1.I noticed that you have a 400 watt machine-does it take that much power to do this kind of work?
2. What is the object overall size?
3. How many passes at what speeds and power settings?
4. What was total laser time to do thid?
Thanks
Best regards;
George
LaserArts

I have done 3D on as little as 50 watts but it just takes longer. The pieces size was about 4 by 4 inches, I used 600 DPI, 45"/sec engraving speed, 100% power on my 400 watt laser. Took about 12 minutes to do one. When I array them across times get a lot better. Maybe 4 or 5 minutes per piece.

A 150 watt laser would give you similar results at 15"/sec and 100% power.

Derek Kern
11-07-2008, 12:43 PM
Hi Derek,
Nice work. How long did it take and what is the actual size, what are your settings, wattage, speed, etc...

In order for this to be profitable and encourage others on the Creek to explore it further, you may want to donate this file and put a challenge that everyone who excepts it will have the file emailed to them and in return they must produce one on their laser and or CNC and provide a few pics, all specs, material(s) used and time study so that this can be an informative/educational post instead of just the WOW effect.

Please don't get me wrong, the WOW effect is great to see but knowing what your Kern laser's can do with higher wattage is a big difference from what most of us have. This way we can see what different laser brands with different wattage can do and have real world comparisons.

What do you think?

Thanks you and ...

Posted settings above.

Great Idea! BUT..... it says plain as day on Gantry Co. website that this is not allowed. Which makes perfect sense. Its the same as ripping off copies of any software and giving them out for free.

Any other ideas? Does anyone own a good 3D file that we could compare systems with? I have four but are all property of Gantry Co....

Michael Kowalczyk
11-07-2008, 1:19 PM
Posted settings above.

Great Idea! BUT..... it says plain as day on Gantry Co. website that this is not allowed. Which makes perfect sense. Its the same as ripping off copies of any software and giving them out for free.

Any other ideas? Does anyone own a good 3D file that we could compare systems with? I have four but are all property of Gantry Co....

Here's a thought, maybe the people at Gantry can approve this because it is in their best interest to help promote their stuff. Just like Tom "Buzz" writes in his newsletter, "You have to give to get". So if they give a little they may get a lot more in return. Technically it won't cost them much, if anything, because they will reach Laser user's that probably wouldn't bother because of the concern of how long it takes to laser. But by trying a usable/marketable 3D product, they may be able to justify it.

If I remember correctly it is your software that they use to create these 3D grayscale images and your Lasers that can make them faster than we probably can (as you mentioned above). By everyone using the same file that becomes the benchmark for this study and the variables are the assorted lasers represented on this forum, for the amount of marketing information that can be pulled from this venture is invaluable. Having something that at the least can be given away with out a watermark on the face will make it more attractive for greater participation. If they are unwilling to participate in this, they are missing a great opportunity in my opinion.

Kerry Smith II
11-07-2008, 1:56 PM
They will send you a graphic for trial if you email them, it is on the front page of their website.

http://www.gantryco.com/

Also I found this sample graphic from Artcam in this old thread.

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=622499&highlight=mackenzie#post622499

Michael Kowalczyk
11-07-2008, 3:56 PM
They will send you a graphic for trial if you email them, it is on the front page of there website.

http://www.gantryco.com/

Also I found this sample graphic from Artcam in this old thread.

http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=622499&highlight=mackenzie#post622499

Hey Kerry,
Thanks for the post but the sample has a watermark across the face of it therefore rendering it useless for anyone to actually market. The concept is to see if a real world product can be marketed at a fair price by standard laser users on this forum. By having many different laser owners that have many different type of lasers with different wattage and engraving speeds, we could see at what level it may make sense. Could you or would you even waste the time of producing something that can not be sold or at the least given away with out someone else's logo watermarked across it? That would be like having a great photo with "PROOF" stamped on it and trying to sell it to anyone. Typical comment might be "Awesome photo but come back when you have something that is actually for sale and then I'll let you know". It is very hard to test the market with out having something that they can actually buy. Most people will say "Wow" but until they actual buy one that's all it is, a "WOW" factor.

Just trying to help Gantry, Kern Laser and Creek members with some good real world info and PR.

Here's another one for you. It is a proven fact that when you offer free food at a volunteer work event you will get a larger crowd, unless of course it is for a cause. Like I mentioned earlier, a real world study of a saleable product will generate great feed back and possible sales for Gantry that might not otherwise be obtained. Laser owners will also see if it could be a viable, cost effective and profitable product line to carry.

I have tested many FREE router bits from manufacturer's because I give them feedback. RPM, Feed Rate(IPM), material cut, how many sheets it yielded. Either they get the bit back with my info because it performed less than what I am already using or if it performed better than what I was currently using and cost was fair, they gained a new customer. In both scenarios it was a WIN-WIN situation.

I am willing to invest my time, talents and machinery, if they are willing to invest in their product.

Derek, If Gantry would like to benefit from this then they should put something into it. Ask them the worst they could say is no:( and the right thing to say is Yes:)

Wil Lambert
11-08-2008, 6:42 AM
Here are a couple of simple ones to try if you want. While I don't sell premade designs like these. Custom ones are no problem. 90% of all the design work I do is for the embossing and engraving industry.

They are 600dpi TIF files. Too big for the forum and wrong file format.

http://formedbydesign.com/Sawmill/Button.tif ~ Approx 1.5mb
http://formedbydesign.com/Sawmill/Sun_burst.tif ~ Approx 5.6mb

Good luck I am curios how they engrave.


Wil

Michael Kowalczyk
11-12-2008, 2:11 PM
Thanks Wil for sharing.
Has anyone lasered them yet?
Please show us some pics and post your make of laser, wattage, settings, DPI, actual laser time and material used.
Thanks and ...

Michael Kowalczyk
11-14-2008, 1:55 PM
Just got off the phone with Louis at GantryCo and they are open to the idea. He asked me to figure out what kind of item to do. It would not be fair to post one from their website that others have paid for so here is the next challenge.
I think it should be a non seasonal (limiting) idea but yet marketable in many areas and all times of the year.
Please do not use Thanksgiving Day, Hanukkah, Christmas, New Years day or other date specific themes so that we can reach a larger spectrum for greater feedback.

Patriotic themes can work. An Eagle Flying over the Rockies or Mount Rushmore.

A nice house/log cabin in the woods with a rocking chair on the porch "Home Sweet Home" or better yet a blank area to add your own message.

So if you have any ideas, please post them here and give good details. The sooner I can give Louis a theme, the sooner we may be able to start this study. With the Holidays approaching quickly and families gathering it would be a good time to get this done quickly so you can share your ideas with them.

My thanks, in advance, to all those that will dedicate the time needed to make this a successful laser study and the willingness of Louis to consider this.

(978)Thanks again and ...

Jim Good
11-15-2008, 1:46 AM
I vote patriotic. I think that is a theme we can all use.

Frank Corker
11-15-2008, 9:09 AM
I vote patriotic. I think that is a theme we can all use.

I'm from the UK

Derek Kern
11-15-2008, 10:53 AM
There needs to be two things shown by the artwork. Marketability and System Quality

Marketability- It needs to be something that could sell anywhere.. no matter if your in a different country. This will make it fair for everyone...If there is eagle and American flag on it, UK customers won't buy for as much as a US customer.

System Quality- I think there needs to be good detail, to prove that your laser system is aligned for engraving and even some solid parts that will prove that the laser does not have a "patterning effect" that some laser systems have when engraving. Hope that makes sense. What I am referring to is horizontal or vertical patterning. Most people know what I mean.

I will give it some thought in the deer stand this weekend.

Bill Cunningham
11-15-2008, 3:19 PM
I will give it some thought in the deer stand this weekend.
Its' pouring down rain here this weekend.. It's supposed to turn cold on Monday, maybe if the deer are wet enuff, they will freeze and stand for me :mad:

"The home sweet home" idea is pretty universal..

My daughter has one hanging on her wall that says
"So this isn't home sweet home... Adjust..."

Scott Perry
11-15-2008, 3:38 PM
How about.....a mountain scene, little boy and his dog fishing off a river bank (could show hooking a fish), pine trees flowing up along the river, log cabin in the background with smoke bellowing out of the rock chimney, maybe a small bear cub on the other side of the river eyeing the hooked fish, birds sitting in a tree, squirrel running up a tree. The river could have a few rapids in it. Sun setting behind the mountain, maybe a few clouds or a storm a brewing in the distant sky.

Gary and Jessica Houghton
11-15-2008, 3:46 PM
Okay what about a globe with a message of peace. To explain further how about two doves holding a banner across the globe with the message of peace in it? Is this too simple of a thought? I think everyone wants world peace, but maybe I'm just thinking too simple.

Derek Kern
11-15-2008, 3:46 PM
How about.....a mountain scene, little boy and his dog fishing off a river bank (could show hooking a fish), pine trees flowing up along the river, log cabin in the background with smoke bellowing out of the rock chimney, maybe a small bear cub on the other side of the river eyeing the hooked fish, birds sitting in a tree, squirrel running up a tree. The river could have a few rapids in it. Sun setting behind the mountain, maybe a few clouds or a storm a brewing in the distant sky.

I like that idea. I have one that is very very similar to this! I have attached it.

jeremy haneca
11-16-2008, 8:04 PM
i would just like to mke an inquiry about artcam.... i visited their site breif ly, im still looking around. has anyone used this software?

Wil Lambert
11-17-2008, 7:35 AM
ArtCAM is excellent software. I use it everyday in all my work. Fairly easy to use. Allows creation of just about anything you dream of.

The only major downfall is the cost. It runs about $7500 depending on where you are in the world. Plus the yearly maintenance is $1200 to keep it up to date.

Wil

Michael Kowalczyk
11-17-2008, 2:34 PM
Derek, Thanks for a nice explanation and a quick plug for Kern(your pic). I still have that sample somewhere in my shop.

Thanks Jim for the vote. We all could use it but like Frank said we have several others on the other side of the ponds.

Gary and Jess, thanks for the idea but for 3D test I think it may be too simple (but definitely needed).

Scott, Thanks for the detailed post. Was that fish a rainbow or brook trout? and was that little bear a Kodiak, grizzly or a black bear? You know if there is a cub around that the mother is not far behind and this info would be needed to show what kind of expression will be on the boy's face:eek: if he sees the mother bear charging him from a distance.
It's all in the details.;)

Bill,
I too am leaning to the "Home Sweet Home" theme because whether they have a mud hut, an igloo, a 600 year old castle, a double wide trailer, a brick clad 1600 sq ft house in a subdivision, or a 2 bedroom apartment/flat, a house is just a structure until you make it a Home and Home is where the Heart is.

Wil,
Thanks again for the button pic and your post about Artcampro but I will respectfully disagree with some of it. Yes I am not crazy about the 1200.00 a year maintenance but it does give many advantages, free 3D clipart, discounts, chance to Beta test and update to next version. The 7500.00 is relative to what you are doing. It is a tool. Just like some people have 20-30K CNC's and some have 100-200K CNC's. They all will cut X,Y and Z. Some faster and more accurate and with more bells and whistles but only the purchaser can tell if they made a good investment and are getting a good ROI by the throughput. There is no Panacea software (yet) but I think the more important question for us to ask Jeremy is what does he plan on making. As you can see below I use many different makes of software as many of us do. I like each for a certain reason and it works for me and our customers but lets stay on focus here and Jeremy if you would like more info, maybe look at the Artcam Forum and post there both Wil and I are on it or just start another post here and explain what you are wanting to accomplish. Is it worth the 7500.00 +? Each person has to answer that themselves and many have by purchasing it and maintaining it for several years.

Wil, by the way I have done a sample of your button and will post a pic later showing my quick test results at different speeds.

Wil Lambert
11-17-2008, 6:15 PM
Wil,
Thanks again for the button pic and your post about Artcampro but I will respectfully disagree with some of it. Yes I am not crazy about the 1200.00 a year maintenance but it does give many advantages, free 3D clipart, discounts, chance to Beta test and update to next version. The 7500.00 is relative to what you are doing. It is a tool. Just like some people have 20-30K CNC's and some have 100-200K CNC's. They all will cut X,Y and Z. Some faster and more accurate and with more bells and whistles but only the purchaser can tell if they made a good investment and are getting a good ROI by the throughput. There is no Panacea software (yet) but I think the more important question for us to ask Jeremy is what does he plan on making. As you can see below I use many different makes of software as many of us do. I like each for a certain reason and it works for me and our customers but lets stay on focus here and Jeremy if you would like more info, maybe look at the Artcam Forum and post there both Wil and I are on it or just start another post here and explain what you are wanting to accomplish. Is it worth the 7500.00 +? Each person has to answer that themselves and many have by purchasing it and maintaining it for several years.

Wil, by the way I have done a sample of your button and will post a pic later showing my quick test results at different speeds.

Michael,

If you put it into those terms I fully agree with you. I use many software packages everyday. I think I have more invested in software than I do in my CNC. Fortunately my software is the reason I eat not the machine. If you are in business $7500 is a small investment compared to the equipment you use it for. In the terms of a hobbiest the cost could be unbearable.

I have worked in the metal industry for years now as a 5 axis programmer. Every company I deal with does not consider the software as much of an asset as the machines. If it wasn't for the software the machines are just a large expensive chunk of steel. :)

Wil

Scott Perry
11-17-2008, 7:52 PM
Scott, Thanks for the detailed post. Was that fish a rainbow or brook trout? and was that little bear a Kodiak, grizzly or a black bear? You know if there is a cub around that the mother is not far behind and this info would be needed to show what kind of expression will be on the boy's face:eek: if he sees the mother bear charging him from a distance.
It's all in the details.;)



Rainbow trout, a little black bear...mama's nowhere to be seen....keeping it in a kid type setting. The dog --a golden retriever puppy.

Michael Kowalczyk
11-18-2008, 3:51 PM
OK Scott thanks for filling in the blanks.

Keith Outten
11-18-2008, 6:06 PM
A less expensive alternative to ArtcamPro is Aspire which is a new 3D program from Vectric. I wouldn't dare compare the two other than to say the Aspire is about $5,500.00 cheaper. Clearly these two programs aren't equal but there is a less expensive option for those like me who could never justify ACP.

.

Michael Kowalczyk
11-18-2008, 6:11 PM
Wil and every one else:
Here are a few pics of the button, thank you Wil, done on basswood at 4 different speeds. It is hard to see but the one on the right, in the pic, is actually very deep but charred. Not sure but the "z" height might have been more than a 1/4" inch and that might be why the center seems untouched each time. Anybody else try it?

Mike Mackenzie
11-18-2008, 6:47 PM
Michael,

I think what you will find is that when you do this process for 3D engraving two or more passes will result in better depth and quality with less burning.

I will try and run the same sample to see how it comes out.

Marc Myer
11-18-2008, 8:37 PM
How about a big wave and a surfer? :)
But seriously, ideas from our non-US Creekers will help.
I'm thinking something like a good generic design that could be used in a variety of ways, like a geometric pattern. Or an Art Nouveau design (a Mucha flower?) that would showcase the work without being too limiting.

Michael Kowalczyk
12-09-2008, 7:31 PM
Thanks Mike for the 2 pass suggestion. I will try it some day. have you had a chance to try any yet?

Thanks Marc for the suggestions. I still think i needs to be somewhat generic but also appeal to the largest possible crowd of emotional, I mean impulse, buyers.

Come on all you laser's. Let see some other ideas or is the interest level slowly fading?

Thanks and ...

Linda Tetreault
12-09-2008, 9:54 PM
I have looked at the Gantry site, & have lusted after several of them. The ones that I would be inclined to buy would be the baby announcement, which is great all year & there was a cabin which could be a house warming type of gift. A variation of either of these could be used by anyone, anytime.

It's already too late for Christmas & the 10 people who are actually shopping are already done anyway.

Steve Clarkson
12-10-2008, 5:39 AM
A baby announcement is pretty universal.....they even have babies in the UK, don't they Frank? Guess we'll just have to wait until next week to get the answer to THAT one!

"Terry Pless"
12-11-2008, 11:10 AM
Hi, I played around with the 3D as well and had what I thought was good results. One of the popular items I sell are cross's of many different types so to make them even better I made a few in 3D to round off the egdes. I also did a star badge. I used the conture tool on Corel 12 with the color choice and shades of grey. Try them out and see what you think. I have a 35 watt epilog and use settings of 400dpi,12 speed and 100%power and usally only one pass. Their is also a vector line to cut them out. Terry

Linda Tetreault
02-04-2009, 3:28 PM
It's been a while, did this project go anywhere? I was looking forward to some great ideas from all the creative forum members.

Angus Hines
02-04-2009, 4:18 PM
Long live the Queen


I'm from the UK

Frank Corker
02-04-2009, 9:18 PM
Okay I'd go along with Steve's idea, something baby related, but I too would like to know if any of this came to fruition

onur cakir
02-05-2009, 4:13 AM
please correct me if i'm wrong.

i guess 3D engraving is all about "grayscale gradient" fills in image parts ? (never tried it )

If so, we can use easly PS or AI CS3 gradient tool to create 3D efects on wood etc.

So why we need to buy images ?

Mike Null
02-05-2009, 6:57 AM
Onur

You are correct but many of us do not have the skills nor the time to draw the type of 3d images we want to engrave.

With many of our members this is a hobby and they are still learning the software.

In my case, I know how but have no need as my engraving is limited to commercial work rather than artistic endeavors.

Bryan Bellars
02-05-2009, 9:29 AM
Great thread. Thought I'd give the little button file a try as I've not done any 3D work on the laser before.

However, everything seems to be going to plan until the end of the job when the laser head shoots over to the opposite end of the carriage and jambs into the buffers/stops with the x-axis motor screaming.

It's a long shot, but I guess this is not meant to happen. Does anyone have any idea what I did wrong (or didn't do right :()

Have latest drivers and firmware loaded so am a bit puzzled.

Bryan


+++++++++++++
This turned out to be a conflict between driver and firmware - my fault for missing the announcement I guess. The machine had the latest firmware from Epilog but I was one version behind with the print driver. The result was; every file sent from Corel which contained TIFF data would crash the lens head into the carriage stops at full speed at the end of the job. Actually throwing the belt in some cases.

Updating to the latest driver appears to have sorted this problem. Thank goodness. My wallet is nervous enough theses days! Just shows the importance of keeping up-to-date.

Bryan
+++++++++++++

Benedict Roussos
02-05-2009, 2:56 PM
try this one. Is a demo from GCC
or
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=82535

onur cakir
02-05-2009, 3:58 PM
Mike you got a good point !

If i can achieve my goals in laser business first thing will be to hire a graphic artist.

My whole day time is busy with marketing and whole night time is busy with designing&engraving......