Milling logs

[Robert Gilbert]

I just bought some black walnut - 14 logs, 5 to 7 ft. in length, 12 to 32 in. in diameter. I was wondering if anyone would hazard a guess at roughly how much board feet that adds up to?

These are fresh cut logs (bark on), and I would like to try milling them and drying them myself. Any thoughts on how best to do this?. First, for milling, I was going to slice them up into boards on my band saw. Is this the best way to go, or should I use my chain saw and one of those sawmill jigs Lee Valley sells? Or should I just take them to a sawmill? If I go the band saw route (I own a 15 inch General), what kind of jig should I set up? How thick should I mill it, and do I need to first remove the bark (and how)? I know about stickering, and I'm going to stack it in my basement, which is warm and dry. How long before it's dry enough to use? Is there anything else I should consider? I'm excited to see if I can make a go of this 'mill my own' approach, and any advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated...

Rob Gilbert
Ottawa, Canada

[Adam Grills]

dude.. that is alot of milling on a bandsaw! Have fun with the 36"er. Have a small bandmill out to mill for you they will help you with stickering etc.

P.S. don't buy logs enless you know the approx bft you are buying and the going rate for the spieeies. FYI you bought all shorts (most mills won't buy) and walnut can have up to 6" of sap wood which leaves your 12" log at fire wood. Most mills won't touch walnut until 24-26" dia

Adam

[Ross Ellis]

Board feet can't really be answered. There are too many unknown variables. Such as...How thick, how wide, etc... I would take them to a mill. I don't know anything about the sawmill chainsaw jigs but would wonder how you would get the boards square. I would also think you will get many more boards when you calculate in the chainsaw bar thickness in each cut.

I think when you see what one log weighs you will scrap the band saw idea. The logs probably weigh more than your band saw...

You don't need to remove the bark unless its dirty, so it doesn't dull the blade. We use a very very sharp double sided axe if needed.

Mill it to whatever size you want. 8/4 and 4/4 are most common.

Seal the ends. Sticker it. Outside. Not in your basement. It needs airflow more than being indoors. Stack and sticker it, making sure its level. I use a base of 4x4's. Cover with but do not cover too well. Lots of people use a piece of metal roofing panel or even the fiberglass roof panels from the BORGs. The sides don't need to be covered. It's ok for the wood to get a little wet. You just don't want standing water...or alot of water.

[Pete Bradley]

You really want to find someone with a sawmill. If you want to try it, I can offer a few hints:
1. The goal is to put the log straight through the blade. That's generally much harder than it sounds because the log is bumpy and curved. Small logs can be flatted on a jointer, but it eats blades. Instead, make a sled with a long piece of plywood that has a bar for the miter slot on the underside. The sled must be longer than the log.
2. You really need a bigger band saw than your 15" for this or you're likely to break the trunnions or tip over the saw.
3. Green logs are really heavy. 5' 32" logs are impossibly heavy for a person to push through a saw and 5' 16" quarters are borderline. You'll want to wedge a 2X on end under the table to support it.
4. You'll make a remarkable amount of wet sawdust. Don't let it stay around or you'll get rust and caked on mess.
5. A lot of the log will only be good for firewood.
6 see pic below.

Pete

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ebradlzz/bandsaw_mythbusters.jpg

http://sawmillcreek.org/http:%5C%5Chome.comcast.net%5Cbradlzz%5Cbandsaw_my thbusters.jpg

[Robert Gilbert]

dude.. that is alot of milling on a bandsaw! Have fun with the 36"er. Have a small bandmill out to mill for you they will help you with stickering etc.

P.S. don't buy logs enless you know the approx bft you are buying and the going rate for the spieeies. FYI you bought all shorts (most mills won't buy) and walnut can have up to 6" of sap wood which leaves your 12" log at fire wood. Most mills won't touch walnut until 24-26" dia

Adam

Thanks for the encouraging words friend.

[Robert Gilbert]

Thanks Pete.

[Robert Gilbert]

This is great advice - thanks!

[Pat Moy]

I've done some milling on a chainsaw mill. It works, but you need a really big chainsaw and it's back-breaking work. I also have a Laguna LT18, and I've done some milling of very short logs using that. The milling seems to dull my resaw king blade fairly quickly. Maybe I'm pushing too fast, or doing something else wrong. But in retrospect, I don't think doing my own milling was worth it. After all the hastle of milling, you still have to dry the wood properly.

[Robert Gilbert]

Thanks Pat. That's surprising to hear about the Laguna. I'm beginning to think a trip to the saw mill is in order...

[Pat Moy]

Not sure if you intend to air dry your wood. I think it's much easier to send it off to someone with a kiln if one's close by. I've successfully air dried wood up to 5/4, but it took a lot longer than expected. The rule of 1" per year didn't work for me. I air dried 8/4 red oak and hard maple under cover outdoor for around 3 years, then another 2 years stickered and stacked in my garage. As of a month ago, the moisture content was still 18%. My 4/4 stuff got down to around 15% after 2 years outside and another in the garage. I don't think one can get much lower than 15% unless one brings the wood to heated indoor storage.

[Bob Cooper]

Robert:

I just built a house and had a bunch of big nice white oaks taken down and wanted to have them milled. I found a guy around here with a portable sawmill and it was extremely economical. I'm thinking around 15 cents/board foot.

I wouldn't even begin to consider doing this on a bandsaw.

Do a search using Craigs list for sawmill service. You can also go to woodmiser's web site and find out who owns on in your area. Guys that buy them typically register there hoping to get business from guys like you.

Take a lot of care to prepare a very flat spot to store all the wood -- like someone else said, maybe 4x4's but make sure they are all co-linear cause if they aren't your wood will follow whatever plane they are in.

As far as stickers go, the sawmill guy shoudl be able to cut all of these you'll ever need from the scraps...they just kind of naturally happen as he's trying to work the round log into square stock. Just tell him you need 'em and he shoudl say 'fine...i'll cut you a bunch'.

Also it's good to have a friend help out to pull the boards off as the woodmiser makes each pass.

here are some pictures.

[Mike Parzych]

If you air dry it I'm guessing you could get it down to about 12% by waiting long enough. Choose a place where you'll have the wind going across the width of the stack to help carry moisture away. You won't get much drying in the winter cuz it'll be frozen. Rotate the pile inside to outside because the outside boards will dry faster.

In my opinion air drying is the best way to preserve the color, but kiln drying after it hits 20-25% won't wash anything out. I think you'll run into more low quality kiln driers than you will portable millers. I don't know a heck of a lot about kilning but I've seen the difference between a guy who knows what he's doing and one who doesn't. That's one part of the process I'd do a lot of checking on before I chose a kiln. Maybe folks in you area know of someone.

[Eugene Wigley]

Robert,
Milling and drying your own wood can be very satisfying. It is a very important part of the hobby for me. I enjoy the fact that I can take a tree and turn it in to a piece of furniture. I have pictures of my bedroom set when it was saw logs.

There are a number of things you may want to consider before you make your decision about sawing your logs. First of all you will probably damage a 15" band saw if you try to saw walnut on it. Even if you could get the log on the saw the motor would not be powerfull enough to saw that kind of lumber. A 15" bandsaw is good for resawing but not milling. Another consideration is what you will do with the saw slabs. There will be a lot of waste left from the sawing process. You will also need help to move the logs around and get them on the saw.(if they would fit.) I have cut a lot of trees and dried a lot of lumber. I would recommend hiring a portable saw mill if you have a place where the sawyer can saw the logs. There will be more saw dust and saw slabs than you might imagine. If not you could take the logs to a small mill.

Drying the wood is not that hard if you are not in a hurry. I always air dry walnut for at least nine months before I put it in the kiln. This can not be done in the direct sun light. It must be done in the shade under a shelter. I use a metal carport. I also spray the ground where I stack the lumber with termite spray before I stack the wood. The lumber must be stacked on stickers about 1" square. The top course of lumber needs to be covered with plywood or siding or what ever you have. Leave it there for nine months to a year depending on weather conditions. If you live in Canada the wood will not dry much when the temp. is below freezing. It will take longer. After that it is safe to put the lumber in a low temp. kiln or you can air dry it. If you air dry the wood you may need to move it indoors for a month or so before you build furniture with it. I live in North Carolina. 4/4 walnut wil get to about 16% to 18% MC in about 15 months in NC. That will be different in other geographic areas. If you have room to build a kiln you can build a solor or dehumidification kiln easier than you think. Google wood drying kilns or solor kilns there is a lot of info on the net.

If the logs you bought are straight and clear you can get a lot of lumber from the size logs you have. There is a lot of sap wood in walnut but that is not always bad. Some people incorporate the sap wood in to their projects. Look at some of the projects in past issues of Fine Woodworking. There are some nice pieces of custom furniture in those past issues that have sap wood and even bark in a few cases.

I think you are on a path that will allow you to enjoy woodworking a lot more than you ever have buying wood from someone else. If I had to buy my wood I probably would find another hobby.

If I can help just PM me.

Eugene

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Robert, you asked how many board feet you possibly have. If you will go to the Woodweb site on the home page down the left hand column there's one called "Lumber and Timber Calculators" where you can plug in the length, width and thickness of lumber desired and get an estimate. (There's several calculators there and you can play around getting log weight, etc, and in the same column is a list of sawyers). Just keep in mind the calculations are based on a perfectly straight log and it take very little "wobble" to throw the numbers out the window.

For several logs looking for a sawmill would seem to me to be the way to go. Trying to manhandle that size through a band saw will be a lot of aggravation. I have little experince with walnut but air drying seems to be the preferred method for getting the best looking lumber.

[Chip Lindley]

My best advise would be to find a local sawyer with a Wood-Mizer bandsaw mill. The Wood-Mizer will give you every 5th board free, instead of kerf sawdust. They even come to you for a job this size. Their rates are competitive, and you do not have to haul the logs to a sawmill.

Air drying is very do-able, but lengthy. A solar kiln can be built cheaply and speeds up the process considerably. Commercial drying costs more, and again, the lumber must be hauled to and from. Good Luck !

[Dewayne Reding]

I recently purchased a Granberg Alaskan chainsaw mill. Largest log I have cut so far is about 22" red oak. It is painfully slow using a brand new Stihl 65CC saw with the proper ripping chain. You really need about a 90+ CC saw to do it efficiently. They aren't cheap, and they aren't good for much else due to weight. Another factor is the large chain kerf. You really lose quite a bit of wood with 3/8" cuts..

[Robert Gilbert]

Fantastic. Thanks so much Eugene.

[Royce Meritt]

I also recommend the Wood Web calculators. I've used them often. You can use them to calculate BD in a log, weight of a log and lots of other stuff. Go to the Wood Web site. Click on resources and then calculators.

Don't let the ney-sayers talk you out of doing this. Harvesting your own wood can be very satisfying. Even my wife enjoyes the process and she isn't a woodworker. I would also probably recommend finding someone with a sawmill to do the work for you. In my case there is a guy not far from me with a nice set up. I deliver the logs to him on my trailer. He charges 35 cent/board foot to cut and 30 cents/bd ft to kiln dry. He cuts fast but dries slow. He takes his time with the drying and gets cery good results.

Don't know if you do any turning but even your smallest logs will yield some very nice turning blanks.

[Brent Ring]

Take the logs to a mill or have someone come on-site and mill them up. I took down an apricot tree, and had some black and english walnut given to me and I tried a vain effort with a chainsaw. I enjoy the tree removal process, and watching the boards come off the mill. If I could afford my own mill, that would be a different animal completely, but then I would not have time in the shop, which is what I enjoy most.

The flatness of your drying area is critical! Can't impress that point enough.

Have fun. Thats what this hobby is all about, at least for me!

[James White]

Rob,

You are getting good advise here. I will also add. Read up on properly drying wood. If you wing it you can potentially ruin your lumber. One example is the use of stickers fresh off the saw. The green wood will give you "sticker stain" too deep to remove.

In my opinion hiring a sawyer with a portable bandsaw mill would be the best option. You can work with the sawyer in order to get the best yield from your logs as they are being cut.

Here is a good place to start.
http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf

Another good source and place to ask questions would be.

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?board=8.0

James

[jim oakes]

I sliced up some small logs on a 14" bandsaw with a riser block. I used standing dead trees so they were dry. The largest log was 10" diameter by 8'.

I used the wood to build a live edge stairway to a loft. It was a beautiful stairs.The material was free and would have rotted if left to fall.

There is something very satisfying about slicing up a log.

I walk thru a park daily that's full of huge walnut trees. I often fantasize about sawing one up. Only us wood workers know the true beauty inside a tree.

[Robert Gilbert]

Thankyou - I'll try the calculator now.

[Robert Gilbert]

That's great info - will help with comparisons between local mills...Thanks.

[Robert Gilbert]

Thanks so much.

[Robert Gilbert]

That's really impressive. Did you use some sort of jig to slide the logs past the blade?

[jim oakes]

Yes Robert,I made a big sled like the photo shows at the start of your thread. A strip of plywood with a wood bar in the miter slot.