My table saw and jointer may have safety concerns...

[Alan DuBoff]

I got 2 certified letters from Yates-American today, one for my table saw, and one for my jointer.

I even made this splitter (http://www.softorchestra.com/woodworking/tools/ya-g89-splitter/), go figure..and here it is with a new 16" blade, per their recommendation in the original manual that states the 18" blades spinning at 3600 rpm might be unsafe, which the saw is capable of.

So, the thing I have to wonder is if someone notified them that these old vintage table saws and jointers that are from the 40s can cut hot dogs like there's no tomorrow?

Cutting hot dogs are not in vogue these days I'm told...:p

Here's what the table saw letter said:

------------------

(Yates-American Machine Company letterhead)

Re: Model: G89 Tilting Arbor Saw Serial #B21318 File: 1548NV

Please be advised on the above machine, that we are instructing you to immediately discontinue operation.

We have been notified of many safety concerns of machinery of this vintage, such as:

1. Removal of safety devices without replacement
2. Allowing brakes or other safety devices to wear out without replacement.
3. Alteration of the machine that creates an unsafe situation.
4. Non-compliance with changes in safety standards since the machine was manufactured.

You need to immediately determine whether the machine is in conformity with the applicable OSHA provisions. If you do not have the expertise to do this, you should contact your insurance carrier or a safety engineer in your area.

If the machine complies, continue to operate it. If it does not comply then it should be repaired so that it is in compliance, or be disposed. If you would like us to provide you with repair parts, please send us a certification that the machine is in compliance with OSHA.

We appreciate your concern to this important safety notice.

Sincerely,

Darrell Borghi
President

------------------

[Peter Stahl]

Sounds like a legal notice to cover their butts. There may be lawsuits pending because people have altered their machines. Never heard of any company doing this before but the manuals warning info makes you not want to turn it on sometimes.

[Bob Slater]

That is a machine from the 40's? Incredible that they still follow the liability and safety concerns, yet alone have a database of owners. I would bet my one year old Chinese made floor jack has no one worried about impending seal failure.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

"you should contact your insurance carrier..."

'nuff said. as long as companies are still in business, they can be sued.

[Phil Thien]

At first I wondered how they knew you had saws that were undoubtedly second, third, or fourth-hand. But then I realized that perhaps you contact the company for manuals/parts at some point, and your information went into their database?

[Rod Sheridan]

If you listen very carefully, it sounds like excellent customer service.


It's the "Dear Sir, even though your saw is 60 years old, we at Yates-American continue to provide parts and service for your valuable machinery.

We encourage you to contact us for any parts required to bring your machine into compliance with OSHA regulations".

What great customer service!

Or of course they may simply be covering themselves, however we wouldn't be that cynical would we????

Regards, Rod.

[Matt Meiser]

The way I read it they won't provide parts unless it is certified safe. How are you supposed to make it safe if they won't provide parts? And if they have parts available, but won't sell them to you, and you continue to use it with a broken part and get injured as a result, it seems to me they would be in worse trouble than if they had provided the part to keep it running as safe as possible.

[David Keller NC]

There's another possibility - building a customer marketing database. There's little expense in sending out the letter, and that's the only downside. However, it might considerably enhance their ability to sell spare parts.

Me cynical? - naw....

[Peter Quinn]

They are still in business? Do they make machines or just parts? I never hear their name except in the context of old iron, thought they were long gone.

Perhaps they are on the verge of relaunching a product line and must notify owners of old tools that the old tools are no longer considered safe by today's standards to cover some legal or insurance needs?

Perhaps Ralph Nader has them over a barrel?

[Matt Meiser]

I was suprised too: http://www.yatesamerican.com/index.html

[Chuck Tringo]

They are still in business? Do they make machines or just parts? I never hear their name except in the context of old iron, thought they were long gone.

Perhaps they are on the verge of relaunching a product line and must notify owners of old tools that the old tools are no longer considered safe by today's standards to cover some legal or insurance needs?

Perhaps Ralph Nader has them over a barrel?

from the looks of their website they sell mostly industrial machinery

[Tom Veatch]

from the looks of their website they sell mostly industrial machinery

Which likely explains the several references to OSHA. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't believe OSHA is terribly concerned about operations in my one man, non-occupational, hobbyist, workshop.

IMO, CYA.

[Alan DuBoff]

At first I wondered how they knew you had saws that were undoubtedly second, third, or fourth-hand. But then I realized that perhaps you contact the company for manuals/parts at some point, and your information went into their database?Yes, I had been in contact with Yates-American and they provided me with manufacturing and some sales information on my machines.

These machines are rock solid, the table saw weighs about 1600 lbs, most all of which is cast iron and steel. The motor is a 5HP 3600 rpm motor, which was one of the first TEFC motors of it's kind, AFAIK. It will handle an 18" diameter blade which mounts directly to the arbor. Yates-American cautioned against running that large a blade in the manual, and recommended a 16" for safety. Even still, a 16" blade is huge! It has the capability to cut a 4 5/8" diameter hot dog! :D It can eat unisaws for breakfast without breaking a sweat. It is a saw to give your respect to, without question.

Yates-American is certainly still in business, they haven't made woodworking machines in years other than the large planers and similar pictured on their site. These machines represent America at it's finest, at a time they were manufacturing and building our country back up during WWII. My table saw was manufactured in April 26, 1944, just before the war ended. This was at a time when iron and steel were scarce, but somehow Yates-American was able to obtain it for their government contracts. Quite an expensive saw in it's time. Mine was purchased by the Navy, as was my jointer. My jointer is one of the smaller ones they had manufactured, only 6" blades with a 1/2 HP direct drive Louis Allis motor.

[Tom Henderson2]

I'll bet a milkshake that this is the lawyers covering their butts for liability issues.

If somebody gets hurt and sues, they can show the jury this letter. Given the absurd liability awards that we read about, it makes sense.

Sad commentary though. We used to focus on making good machines. Now we worry about how to head of liability lawsuits....

-TH

[M Toupin]

Yates-American is certainly still in business, they haven't made woodworking machines in years other than the large planers and similar pictured on their site. These machines represent America at it's finest, at a time they were manufacturing and building our country back up during WWII. My table saw was manufactured in April 26, 1944, just before the war ended. This was at a time when iron and steel were scarce, but somehow Yates-American was able to obtain it for their government contracts. Quite an expensive saw in it's time. Mine was purchased by the Navy, as was my jointer. My jointer is one of the smaller ones they had manufactured, only 6" blades with a 1/2 HP direct drive Louis Allis motor.

I know Alan already knows this, but Yates-American has always been a "industrial" machine company. They never targeted the "hobby" market which only really earnestly came into being until after WWII or so. The vast majority of folks think of woodworking on a hobby level or small scale commercial were 10" TS are the norm. Yates-American on the other hand has always catered to the large industrial operations. Weighing in at At 1600#+ and spinning a 18" blade, the G89 TS was never intended to be a "hobby" machine. In 1944 the G89 was the look of an industrial machine, the new stuff just represents the transition to a more powerful and automated machine.

That said, the G89 is a heck of a saw!

Mike

[Alan DuBoff]

I know Alan already knows this, but Yates-American has always been a "industrial" machine company. They never targeted the "hobby" market which only really earnestly came into being until after WWII or so. The vast majority of folks think of woodworking on a hobby level or small scale commercial were 10" TS are the norm. Yates-American on the other hand has always catered to the large industrial operations. Weighing in at At 1600#+ and spinning a 18" blade, the G89 TS was never intended to be a "hobby" machine. In 1944 the G89 was the look of an industrial machine, the new stuff just represents the transition to a more powerful and automated machine.

That said, the G89 is a heck of a saw!

Mike
Mike,

I think you have hit upon why they sent me the letters to begin with.

I had not thought too much about it, but the majority of Yates-American machines were sold to the government. Most of the table saws are bought from government auction these days, although occasionally it is possible to find one not sold from the government, chances are it was sold by the government at one time. The cast iron table weighs about 400 lbs., as much as many modern table saws weigh in their entirety. To be honest, it is too big for my garage, and someday should I ever be able to build my own house, it will be moved to the new shop/basement to accomplish that. I have it on a mobile base, but it requires quite a bit of effort to move it.

After buying it I became enamored by Yates-American equipment, and the one piece I hope to have one day is a Y-30/Y-36 band saw from the 40s. I will design my basement/shop to 10' ceilings in order to accommodate one. A No 1 jointer and a J-18 or B-24 planer would be nice to close the collection...I can see why the government bought these machines exclusively...for a big chunk of their work. These are some of the very machines America was rebuilt with, leading up to and well after WWII. A good chunk of aircraft and boat interiors were built with the woodworking equipment. The U.S. Navy seems to have been one of the larger purchasers of Yates-American woodworking equipment on the west coast.

Yates-American stopped selling industrial woodworking equipment sometime in the 50s, but continued with large double sided planers and flooring machines, some of which are available today from them in modern forms.

[Pete Bradley]

Yates is somewhat known for these CYA letters. They made good machines, they're no less safe than any other brand.

Machines of that quality last forever. Lawsuits, even frivolous ones, can kill a business. I'm sure Yates fears someone bringing a suit against a machine whose profit is long past, and they're doing what they think is necessary to protect themselves.

Pete

[M Toupin]

I have it on a mobile base, but it requires quite a bit of effort to move it.

I bet that's an understatement :D


After buying it I became enamored by Yates-American equipment.

Once you get used to working with true industrial machines it's hard to go back to the little stuff:rolleyes:. Kinda like boats, you always buy a bugger boat. Going smaller just isn't manly or something:D

Mike

[Peter Quinn]

Wow! The YA flooring mill is something else. Several hundred horse power combined five head through molder capable of running 200-500LF per minute! Weights 27,500 pounds! Holy production Batman. I though I had seen a big molder, but nothing like that.

That can make enough flooring for your average house in under one hour. Wish they had taken over Delta and PC instead of Black and Decker.