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Robert Rozaieski
11-03-2008, 10:20 PM
So I broke my old striking knife yesterday after several years of use. I wasn't really surprised as the design wasn't real good when I made it and since it was designed without a ferrule, the blade split out the side of the handle.
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So I decided to make a new one. I had a couple small old files that were sized just right to make a double ended striking knife with knife on one end and awl on the other.
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I started by annealing the files by heating them to cherry red and then letting them cool slowly in fireplace ashes. This softened the files so they could be worked with files and hacksaw. I shaped the awl end in the drill press by holding a mill file to the spinning awl stock (yes I use power for metal working as I don't really enjoy working metal much).
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I used a belt sander to remove the teeth from the flat file, cut it to lengh with a hack saw and ground the angle and bevel. I decided to go with a single skew knife blade this time. I've been using a spear point the last 5 years (including the last one I made and just broke) and have never really liked the style all that much. I can't really say why, just that they never felt right in use to me. Plus, they are harder to sharpen and I never used the opposite side. So I decided to try a single skew right handed knife. I can always regrind it if I decide I don't like it. I chose a piece of bubinga for the center handle.
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I drilled a hole through a 3-1/2 length of squared up bubinga using the drill press. I then used a plug cutter to size the ends for the ferrules. Finally, I shaped the handle with a spokeshave and sandpaper. It is not round in cross section but rather more like the cross section of an oval bolstered mortise chisel. This allows me to pick it up and orient it correctly just by feel. The finish is just some linseed oil and the awl and knife are epoxied in place. It feels very comfortable in use right now. I'll use it for awhile and see if I like it better than my previous designs. If not, I'll try regrinding the knife or reshaping the handle.
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Zahid Naqvi
11-03-2008, 10:24 PM
Robert the end result speaks for itself. Really nice. Although I must admit I have never seen a double ended striking knife before.

Alan DuBoff
11-03-2008, 10:41 PM
Bob,

I like it, very nice!

I've never been much on working metal myself, until I started to blacksmith about 3 or 4 years ago, and hand saws have continued to increase my skills with metal.

I would rather work wood myself, a lot cleaner...

Johnny Kleso
11-03-2008, 11:13 PM
Very Innovative,

I am guessing the handle was a little softer than the blade but think that would work well for a awl that the knife end, almost like it was made for the job..

Dave Anderson NH
11-04-2008, 8:55 AM
Ah yes Bob, kind of a Williamsburg/Cherubini model with a modern twist.

Robert Rozaieski
11-04-2008, 9:31 AM
Ah yes Bob, kind of a Williamsburg/Cherubini model with a modern twist.
Actually Dave, it was a combination of inspiration between your knives/awls and the Williamsburg ones, combined with having two short files that were almost screaming to be made into this knife when you looked at their shapes :D.

The problem I have with all metal versions like Adam makes is that they just don't look very comfortable to use to me. I like a tool that fits my hand. I tried to design something that would settle into my hand in the proper orientation when I pick it up, hence the mortise chisel handle inspiration with flattened sides. Not having a lathe I couldn't turn the handle and then plane the sides flat so I did the next best thing and started rectangular and flat and just shaped the rounded areas. The handle is a little full and I may do some reshaping of it later to thin it out some but I think I'll use it for awhile first to see if it grows on me.

Bob

Danny Thompson
11-04-2008, 11:50 AM
You'll put your eye out.

. . .
Beauty.

John Schreiber
11-04-2008, 12:26 PM
That looks like a beauty. There's nothing like using a tool that was made to fit your hand.

Did you re-temper the steel after shaping it?

Robert Rozaieski
11-04-2008, 12:37 PM
That looks like a beauty. There's nothing like using a tool that was made to fit your hand.

Did you re-temper the steel after shaping it?
The knife end was re-hardened and tempered. The awl end was left annealed so it wouldn't be too brittle and risk snapping in use and also to make it easy to reshape & hone the point with files and stones.

Dave Anderson NH
11-04-2008, 12:46 PM
Bob, you do not have to leave the awl end annealed. Do like I do on my awls. I only harden the last 2 inches at the business end and leave the long shank soft for impact resistance. It was always my reasoning that some time down the road one of my awls would end up in the wrong hands and someone would use it as a pry bar or to open a paint can. The shaft would snap and a small shard of metal would end up in someone's eye. Lawsuits I don't need. Even if you harden only the last half inch it would be an improvement and would stay sharp a lot longer.

David Keller NC
11-05-2008, 10:25 AM
Very nice, Rob. A double-ended version of a striking knife and scratch awl has a very long history - it's a classic British design. Curious - what did you use as the ferrules (brass or copper pipe?), and did you "round over" the end of the ferrule not in contact with the handle? I"ve been thinking about doing something like this, but have been thinking over ways to round over the ferrule ala David Jeske's design. Course, the problem is I don't have a metal working lathe - might have to use the Roy Underhill approach (do it with what you've got!).

Robert Rozaieski
11-05-2008, 10:32 AM
Curious - what did you use as the ferrules (brass or copper pipe?), and did you "round over" the end of the ferrule not in contact with the handle?

I reused the ferrules that were part of the original file handles (see pic #2). The originals were rounded over.

Phillip Ngan
04-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Hi Rob
Just wonder why your knife has two ends. Is one for marking with the grain and the other for across the grain?

David Weaver
04-19-2010, 11:13 AM
What do you guys think about using a tempilstik to fire temper the awl end of a striking knife? Something in the 600-700º range?

Does durability prove to be an issue without an unhardened end?

For that matter, putting the oven at about 500 degrees, probably the max it will go, would leave it in the mid/high 50s if it were O1, and maybe lower if it were a file?

It's a nice design, still nobody have an inclination to cut and file one of their own? I do like the grip idea, though, that looks like it would make it very nice to use, and production of the ends is simplified some by not having them made out of one piece of material.

Bob Strawn
04-19-2010, 11:35 AM
I have a few that I got from Enco (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=720&PMITEM=505-6536) They are carbide, so they are not the right tool for prying with. The combination carbide scriber and scraper is a wonderful little tool for working metal or wood.
830-0383 61/2" LONG COMBINATION SCRIBER & SCRAPER $2.07
My advice is to buy several and modify them.

The carbide eats sandpaper, but you can grind them and give them a flat on one side bevel and even sharpen the point.

I think I will add a wooden handle to one of them though, since I like the look.

Bob

Jim Koepke
04-19-2010, 12:10 PM
Nice work. I guess with the chisel type edge it can still be used to mark out dovetails.

I agree with the unhandled knives being a bit uncomfortable. That is how my first knife was made. It did not take me long to fit it with a handle. It is a bit on the short side. That and its thickness is why my second knife was made from a saw blade.

jim

Robert Rozaieski
04-19-2010, 12:28 PM
WOW! An old thread has been brought back from the dead :D. I forgot about this one.


Hi Rob
Just wonder why your knife has two ends. Is one for marking with the grain and the other for across the grain?
You guessed it right. The knife end is for marking across the grain, e.g. tenon shoulders, and the awl end is for marking with the grain or on end grain, e.g. dovetail pins.


Nice work. I guess with the chisel type edge it can still be used to mark out dovetails.
Actually, I use the awl end to mark dovetails. I find that the awl has less tendency to catch and follow the grain when marking along the grain than a knife. As for the end grain, knife lines are too fine in end grain for my taste. The awl line is easier to see since it is wider and shallower than a knife line. Knife lines tend to disappear altogether in some end grain. The awl scratch is much more visible. Since marking dovetails leaves the mark in the "keep" part of the joint anyway, the width of the line really doesn't matter. I keep the saw completely on the waste side of the mark, so I could use a magic marker really.


I agree with the unhandled knives being a bit uncomfortable. That is how my first knife was made. It did not take me long to fit it with a handle. It is a bit on the short side. That and its thickness is why my second knife was made from a saw blade.

jim

Honestly, after using the knife for awhile now, I can honestly say that I rarely hold it (the knife) by the wooden handle. I will hold the handle while marking with the awl end sometimes, but typically, when marking with the knife end, my hand is much lower down and directly on the blade. I really don't see that there would be any comfort disadvantage to the unhandled variety. I do think they would be a lot more time consuming to make, however, if one was going to start with a wide piece of tool steel. Removing all the steel around the awl would likely be a good deal of work.

David Weaver
04-19-2010, 1:21 PM
Bob, can you see any disadvantage to having a 1/8" piece of steel to start? I've never seen a knife like this in person, and I can see that 1/8" would be trouble on purposely tiny dovetails (or pins rather), but elsewhere it shouldn't hurt. If it does, it could always be ground down/tapered on a belt sander so that the rest of the thing is still 1/8" thick above the blade.

I think I could make one of these, including hardening the knife edge, in about an hour, with or without a belt sander. The hacksawing and filing will involve some sweat, but it may not even be necessary to sweat much for someone who has a good hard drum sander or a small belt sander with a solid roller.

It probably wouldn't as nice on the first try as the one adam makes, though, and maybe hardly worth the effort when they come in carbide from enco for $2.

Robert Rozaieski
04-19-2010, 2:12 PM
I think an 1/8" piece of steel would be fine for most marking tasks. If you wanted to make London pattern dovetails, you could just make the awl end very fine. The awl can fit in tighter spaces since it does not need to be held vertical to mark (i.e. it doesn't have to fit through the smallest opening of the pin like a knife would).