shaper pattern cutters? Amana's shaper cutters?

[Ron Bontz]

For those shaper users out there. What do you think of amana's insert shelix type heads for pattern work? I was considering these heads because of the 2-3" height, somewhat small radius, and of course the ability to replace the less costly inserts. The height can be of course adjusted depending on the thickness of work and pattern. I am looking at different heads for pattern work ranging from s curves (clocks, furniture) to cabinets. Basically anything I have to make more than a couple of. If I could bump my shaper spindle speed up to say....18,000RPM:rolleyes:, I would simply use the carbide spiral router bits. My luck, my ADD would kick in and I would forget to bump it back down and put in a 6" panel cutter. Just feel that breeze blowing your hair back.and "Prepare for take off":D My small items I generally do with a spiral carbide router bit in my router table. Anyway I am looking for your thoughts and the consenses on Amana's dedicated cabinet cutters as well. Thanks for your input in advance.:)

[Ron Bontz]

OK so what is everyone using for pattern work on a shaper? Also what does anyone think of insert carbide cutters vs. dedicated carbide cutters.:)

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Ron, I don't have a carbide cutter for pattern work, I have a cutter head that takes the 40mm HSS knives from CMT, although my cutter head isn't made by CMT.

I also have the appropriate ball bearing guide (125mm??) to go with the outer cutter diameter.

Obviously it doesn't do small radius pattern cutting, but it's perfect for chair legs.

Regards, Rod

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Ron, I'll give this thread a bump, I'm curious too.

I'm personally leaning towards a Felder, Garniga or similar, with carbide inserts, like a shelix. One problem with the European tooling is the metric system. Not sure how big of a deal it actually is, but with a mix of metric and standard tooling, one would want to pay attention at the least.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ron, I'll give this thread a bump, I'm curious too.

I'm personally leaning towards a Felder, Garniga or similar, with carbide inserts, like a shelix. One problem with the European tooling is the metric system. Not sure how big of a deal it actually is, but with a mix of metric and standard tooling, one would want to pay attention at the least.

Hi Steve, I smiled when I read your post about the metric system, actually it's not the problem, North America is with the British Engineering system...LOL.

I believe that some of the Felder tooling is available in 1 1/4" bore, and most of their machines sold in NA are 1 1/4" spindle size.

If you have a 1" spindle on your shaper, you can use the 30mm bore cutters with reducing bushings/washers.

I have a couple of old 30mm bore cutters I received from my FIL, and I use them with a reducing bushing.

Regards, Rod.

[David DeCristoforo]

FWIW, you don't need to run your shaper at 18,000 RPM to use router bits. Just adjust your feed rate to compensate for the slower RPM. I've been doing this for years with excellent results. The insert tooling from Amana is not bad although I don't like any cope and stick cutters that lack an end trim cutter in the cope "stack".

[Peter Quinn]

I use an Amana three wing cutter for pattern work at work though not with any severe radius stuff. I got an adjustable euro groover this spring that has 6 knives (three per cutter x2 cutters) plus spurs top and bottom. They are carbide insert like the shelix head and the spurs cut at a shear angle. It produces the finest cut I have seen, even in some African mahogany I was having problems with using three wing slot cutters.

I use a big pattern maker bit and some spiral carbide bits on the router table for smaller pattern work with tight radii, but I am going to get a spiral carbide head for the shaper this winter and give it a try based on my slot cutter experience. Seems Byrd makes them too, as do many others. I'll go for the biggest diameter my shaper can fit in the hole as the gentler exit angle of a large cutter seems to solve many of the tear out problems anyway.

[Ron Bontz]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I really began thinking about this as I was looking at my collection of shaper cutters that's growing and my cabinet space shrinking. I think I must have about 6 different brands as well as 3/4" and 1-1/4" bores which adds to the collection of bearings and confusion . A downside to bargain shopping. I am considering trying to organize this a little better. Less brands, less dedicated cutters, etc.:)

[Ron Bontz]

Hey Peter. What three wing cutter are you using from Amana? Also keep me posted on the insert head for pattern work.:)

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Hi Steve, I smiled when I read your post about the metric system, actually it's not the problem, North America is with the British Engineering system...LOL.

I believe that some of the Felder tooling is available in 1 1/4" bore, and most of their machines sold in NA are 1 1/4" spindle size.

If you have a 1" spindle on your shaper, you can use the 30mm bore cutters with reducing bushings/washers.

I have a couple of old 30mm bore cutters I received from my FIL, and I use them with a reducing bushing.

Regards, Rod.

Now doggoneit Rod, the rest of the world needs to conform to us! After all, who wants to do sissy conversions with a mere movement of a decimal point? Where is the satisfaction in that? Convert 13 3/8" to 1/16"ths, now that makes you feel like you accomplished something!:D

No, in all seriousness, the Felder is coming with an 1 1/4" spindle, and I think I goofed and ordered a 30mm one as well. I also intend on getting a 15,000 rpm spindle for the router bits as well. Pretty cool how they all change.

The biggest issue I see with the metric/vs "correct way", is in door building. Seems to me that you would have to work the whole door through with the one or the other, or the conversions could become a bit tiresome. Simple enough I suppose, but I finally was persuaded to by a European combo, now I have to learn the danged metric system? Baby steps...

[Jay Brewer]

Hi Ron, I have the Amana cutter you are asking about. Its is a quality unit. I use it with the rub collar (and template )to hog off the arches in raised panel doors, it does a great job. It dosent have as many cutters as some manufactures, so a small ridge can be seen at certain heights , easily sanded out but thought I would tell you about it.

[Peter Quinn]

We are using this one:

http://www.amanatool.com/shaper/a-27-102.html, in a 2" height.

[Charlie Plesums]

FWIW, you don't need to run your shaper at 18,000 RPM to use router bits. Just adjust your feed rate to compensate for the slower RPM. I've been doing this for years with excellent results. .....

In general I agree... At 10,000 rpm on my shaper I am happy with the results of using router bits down to about 1/4 inch roundover router bit. But I did have a strong warning from a router bit designer when I made a "just feed slower" comment. His point was that the heat is carried away by the chips, and at the lower shaper RPM rather than 25,000 rpm or so with the router, the chips aren't thrown as well, and the bit could overheat. Okay, so I now worry about heat as well as a smooth cut.

On the other subject, I recently got a Byrd Shelix head for pattern "routing" and have been extremely pleased with the results. The last time I used a pattern router bit, it tore a half inch deep gouge into a very gradual curve on the top of a headboard. No hint that I will have similar problems when I have used the Shelix head. The smaller router bit does more lifting of the grain than the larger diameter shaper cutter.

[Ron Bontz]

Thank you, Thank you. As always, much food for thought and research here. :)