LV Lapping Plate Perspective

[Randy Klein]

This is just my perspective on the Lee Valley/Veritas Lapping Plate after having used it for the first time.

Short story: I really like it. And I think it functionally replaces at least all the grit (stones or sandpaper) below 1000

Long story:

So I had this plane iron from Lie Nielsen A-2 that needed it's initial lapping. The problem was, it had a low corner. It either came this way, or I dubbed it some time in an earlier attempt to lap it. I really can't remember.

Just recently, I tried again to lap it since I'm going to need its services soon. My 1000 Shapton stone was not aggressive enough. So I switched to my granite plate and sandpaper. I kept dropping down the grit until I got to 80 grit. I still wasn't able to get to that corner.

So I ordered the lapping plate and bought a 1lb bag of 220 S/C loose grit off ebay. Today I brought the two together. Within 30 minutes, I had the entire back lapped, corner and all.

Here's what I see as benefits:

The ability to really bear down on the tool without any fear. There's no fear of cracking the glass/stone or dubbing with sandpaper. Double stick taping a block of wood to the iron really helps with the bearing down.

The weight of the plate is big plus. It doesn't really move at all even when you are bearing down on it.

The S/C grit (really cheap stuff BTW) breaks down into finer and finer particles. So once I got a uniform sheen tip to tip, I just kept going. The finer particles acted like replacing the 80 grit with 150 and then 220 and then so on, without actually having to replace anything. That being said, I did have to reload the 220 loose grit a couple of times when it lost its aggressiveness.

Now, here's a comparison of my iron with a brand new iron from LV that has been factory lapped. LV on left, LN on right. Notice the LN which I lapped has much more uniformity. Meaning it has no deep scratches that will have to be worked out with polishing stones.

100033


Now a close up from the side of the LV:
100034

And the LN:
100035

I messed with the contrasts of the pics to better illustrate the scratches. Just in case anyone was wondering why they looked kinda weird.

My next step is to take both of these irons straight to the polishing stones and see how each behaves. I'll report on that later.

Also, like most sharpening processes, this is messy. So I wouldn't use this on my good bench, even with paper underneath to soak up the slurry.

[Erwin Graween]

Hi.

It sounds great,
I have to lap flat a bunch of chisels, and I'm yet tired of trying to get them flat about 2 or 3 inches after the tip, because they're kind of hollow on the sole.
Is this lapping plate really efficient ? Would it remove a 1/64 hollow in the sole of a chisel of plane blade ?

Also what kind of fluid did you use ?

Thanks.

[Randy Klein]

Hi.

It sounds great,
I have to lap flat a bunch of chisels, and I'm yet tired of trying to get them flat about 2 or 3 inches after the tip, because they're kind of hollow on the sole.
Is this lapping plate really efficient ? Would it remove a 1/64 hollow in the sole of a chisel of plane blade ?

Also what kind of fluid did you use ?

Thanks.

With enough time and the right grit, I'd imagine you can. I just don't know what those two would be to get rid of 1/64 hollow. You can get some really rough grit (like 90 or so). However, a hollow is not a bad thing to have (think japanese chisels).

As for fluid, they recommend mineral oil. So that's what I used.

[David Keller NC]

Thanks for the report and the pics. I've been thinking of one of these myself. My only hesitation is how the plate will wear in use. Though I'm careful to use the entire area of the upper surface of a waterstone, they still dish in use and need to be flattened, and while I'd expect that the iron lapping plate will do this much more slowly, I'm concerned that I'd eventually have to take it to a machine shop to have it ground flat again. That could be an expensive trip...

[Eddie Darby]

I wonder if LV will offer a re-surfacing of the plate, as a maintenance package, should the lap losse it's flatness?

[Mark Roderick]

That's why I've never understood using a lapping plate. It seems to me that by definition, after you've used it once it's a little bit out of flat, and it gets a little bit more out of flat each time you use it.

It's a different story if you cover the lapping plate with a sheet of kevlar, but then you might as well use glass rather than a lapping plate.

Am I missing something?

[David Keller NC]

"Am I missing something?"

Nope. Something I learned in a telescope mirror-making class at the local University is that rubbing two surfaces together will produce a slightly convex and a slightly concave surface, regardless of what the two surfaces are made of - it's just a question of how long that will take. I'd imagine granite would take a lot of rubbing. :D

[Randy Klein]

"Am I missing something?"

Nope. Something I learned in a telescope mirror-making class at the local University is that rubbing two surfaces together will produce a slightly convex and a slightly concave surface, regardless of what the two surfaces are made of - it's just a question of how long that will take. I'd imagine granite would take a lot of rubbing. :D

While that may be true, a lapping plate is used on numerous tools. Each tool will have a unique geometry of flatness and shape that will rub the plate differently.

So while a single tool lapped on a plate may produce a convex and concave shape over time, many different tools will probably average each other out and the flatness of the plate will remain good enough for woodworking purposes.

Just my thoughts.

[Marcus Ward]

I think this is how you keep it flat... if you have a big machine shop.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-12-Surface-Grinder-w-Stand/G5963

[Chris Padilla]

I think this is how you keep it flat... if you have a big machine shop.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-12-Surface-Grinder-w-Stand/G5963

Why mess around? ;)

A big 'un! (http://www.grizzly.com/products/Surface-Grinder-10-x-20-/G0567 )

[Marcus Ward]

I bet you could make plane soles flat with one of those. :D

[David Keller NC]

"So while a single tool lapped on a plate may produce a convex and concave shape over time, many different tools will probably average each other out and the flatness of the plate will remain good enough for woodworking purposes."

I sort of doubt that based on my experience with waterstones. Regardless of whether a lot of attention is paid to using all of the area of the stone, including overhanging the edge on honing strokes, the stones still dish in the middle anyway. I suspect that has something to do with the tool simply being in contact with the center for a longer proportion of time than the edges, by the nature of the geometry (dynamics?) of the sharpening stroke.

That said, I don't doubt that the Veritas iron plate will take a lot longer to wear to the point where it needs attention than a waterstone, but I suspect it will happen eventually. The idea of Veritas having a fixed-price re-surfacing service is a very good one, if only for peace of mind.

[Sam Salter]

I use waterstones so I'll talk what I know.

It seems to me that with whatever method you use, "absolute" flatness is a must and you can't get away from it! I flatten my stones against one another continually - every 5mins or so when I'm sharpening. And I change stones and sides so as to be as random as possible so as not to induce any sort of hollow in the stone.

If your initial lapping with an 800grit or 1000grit isn't as flat as you can possibly make it, as you get toward the 4000grit and 8000grit stones there is no way they will polish across the whole back of a chisel or plane blade that has been initially lapped on a stone that is concave, even if it's one or two thou'.

So using a iron plate that you have to send out to get flattened I don't think would cut it for me! (Sorry about the pun)

sam :-)

[Danny Burns]

I wonder if LV will offer a re-surfacing of the plate, as a maintenance package, should the lap losse it's flatness?

This might end up costing a lot!
Perhaps LV don't want to resurface, but instead sell you a new one!:rolleyes:

[jamie shard]

Randy, are you seeing any wear on your plate, or does the layer of grit protect the plate? What about other long time plate users?

[Randy Klein]

Randy, are you seeing any wear on your plate, or does the layer of grit protect the plate? What about other long time plate users?

I'm not sure if there are long time plate users as this is a relatively new product from LV. I haven't seen any measurable wear, but I'm also working the whole plate as much as possible.

[Steve Sawyer]

I bet you could make plane soles flat with one of those.

Yes - that's what many people use them for, and that's one reason that I've coveted one ever since they came out with it.

[Peter Quadarella]

I just use an extra coarse diamond stone. It does take a while, but its a lot quicker than my 1000 grit waterstone.

[Steve Sawyer]

I bet you could make plane soles flat with one of those.

Many do - and that's what has made me covet one of these ever since LV first announced it.