Faceframe Dimension

[Chris Padilla]

What do you use to judge how to dimension your faceframes? Basically how thick do you typcially make them and why?

I have some to make from some large chunks of 10/4 maple so I can make them any thickness I want...just looking for some input on typically what everyone uses.

I originally planned for 3/4" but now I am thinking that I don't need them that thick and so 1/2" is looking like a better use of the wood.

I don't have anything fancy planned for the faceframes...pretty plain, really.

Thanks!

[Jason Tuinstra]

Chris, all the face frames I've ever built had their thickness determined by the thickness of the drawer or door. I don't know what your application of this face frame is going to be, but that's how I have always judged it. Maybe I'm not understanding your question.

What is the face frame going to be for?

[Mark Stutz]

Chris,
On my shop cabinets, I used Euro style hinges that were mounted on the face frame instead of the inside of the cabinet, with overlay doors. They are made for 3/4 inch thick face frames. Most cabinets i've seen use that thickness more or less. To my eye, 1/2 in. seems thin...maybe less substantial is a better description. Just my .02.

Mark

[Fred LeBail]

Chris , I usually make my faceframes 7/8 ". My tenons are 3/8 x 1 and the mortises are set in 1/4 ". I use mortise & tenon joints as my only means of joining faceframes and frame & panels . I don't see any point in dressing 4/4 lumber to 3/4 and send the rest to the DC. And I make quite a few of them.
I have an old Beaver tablesaw that is only used to cut tenons using 2 saw blades, spacer and a sliding sled.
Yea, I know , you want pictures, pictures, pictures but they will have to wait 'till I get back in the shop,probably in the next couple of days.
Hope this helps,
Fred

[Dick Parr]

Chris, I made mine 3/4" min. I attach useing pocket screws, the only way to go. :D On the other hand if you are making a small cabinet, 3/4" might be to big and over bearing for it and you will need to go 1/2". Like noted before, it depends on the size and what it is for.

[aurelio alarcon]

Chris, I made mine 3/4" min. I attach useing pocket screws, the only way to go. :D On the other hand if you are making a small cabinet, 3/4" might be to big and over bearing for it and you will need to go 1/2". Like noted before, it depends on the size and what it is for.
I do it just as you do Dick--3/4 inch in thickness, pocket screws and glue. I've never used 1/2 inch for face frames even on small cabinets, but that doesnt mean I never would.

[Todd Burch]

Chris, ¾" is pretty standard, as might 13/16" be. It's a good size for these reasons:

1) Most face frame hardware is designed to be used with this thickness.
2) When screwing cabinets together via the face frame, this is a good thickness.
3) When laying out a cabinet, you calculate the same allowance everytime for your case side width.
4) Stock is readily available in this thickness with no further machining needed - just sanding.
5) Pocket screws work best in this thickness range.
6) This thickness gives a good range of choices for how you might joint face frame members.
7) Doors are also in this thickness range, and for inset applications, you don't run into any issues with doors hitting interior shelves, etc.

It's OK to deviate though. European-style cabinets (p-tuey!) don't even have face frames!

Todd

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Guys.

I attached what I hope are somewhat clear pics of my cabinet design. This is for the left side of the fireplace in my overall EC.

The drawer/door fronts will overlay the faceframe for a 1" reveal all around save for the leftmost faceframe--that one is my scribe to the wall. Also, in certain areas, the faceframe will be flush with the cabinet carcass and in others, it will not.

The dimensions of the faceframe is 3/4" thick by 2" wide by however long. The cabinet is 42 1/2" wide (across) by 48 3/4" high (tall) by 28" deep (not including faceframe and doors/drawers).

[Dick Parr]

Definitely ¾” for this project. Todd gave all the good reasons. :p

[Chris Padilla]

Yep, I'll just make it all 3/4"...thanks for the help.

[Chris Padilla]

Well, did I get close to the design? ;)

The cabinet isn't glued up, yet. The back is ready to fit into the rabbets but I still need to cut dadoes/grooves for the internal "H"/shelves there. This should be one solid puppy when I'm finally done.

I have our new carpet scheduled to be installed tomorrow morning and I have a question for you folks:

Notice that I have a scrap piece of plywood laying on the floor snugged up to the bottom of the carcass. I was discussing with my wife that that is how thick (3/4") the faceframe will be once it's added to the carcass.

Now I need to get this cabinet in place (temporarily) so the carpet can be properly layed up to it. Should it go to the faceframe or should it go to the cabinet carcass frame? I say it should go to the faceframe but my wife thinks it needs to have something over it like how base moulding is done. Thoughts? Any gotchas? Should I cancel the install??? :eek:

[Todd Burch]

Chris, don't cancel the install - that will just upset your wife!!

And, don't mess with setting it in place either - just extra work that you don't need to hassle with. Simply have the carpet guys leave the carpet a couple inches long where the built-in will go. You can draw a line where it will sit so they can put tackstrip down, and snug-up-the-rug.

After you have it in place, call them back to tuck it in to whatever surface you decide. They may charge you $35 for the trip, but it's worth it for easing the stress factor.

Todd

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, most excellent, Sensai Burch! Thank you for the words of wisdom.

I think you just saved me a late Friday night frantically working to get the cabinet in shape. I didn't get to bed until midnight last night as I was busy getting it to the stage you see.

You are 100% correct that my wife would be upset! The shape of the TV room is grating on her nerves lately and so I quickly tossed out that we could get the carpet installed if I can just get the cabinet carcass done. That will make the room look about 100% better and she'll be happy again.

Well, at least with the cabinet in this stage, I have a really good idea how it will go and fit. I think it was a good thing that I placed this deadline on myself as I've gotten a lot done on it.

Thanks, Todd!

[aurelio alarcon]

I would just let them install the carpet without any cutting. You can always do this once you decide (in case you change your mind) on where you are going to install your cabinet. Cutting and tucking the carpet is really easy.

[Chris Padilla]

Aurelio,

I probably won't do that because I'll need to tear up the carpet almost immediately since I'm going to be checking the cabinet for fit very soon. No worries, it is going where we intend...there is no where else to put it! :)

However, I'll chat with the carpet guy and ask him to come "off the clock" when I'm ready for the final nip and tuck. Carpet may be easy but I've never done it. :)

[Scott Coffelt]

Pretty much echo what Todd said. Used to biscuit, now I Kreg it.

[Scott Coffelt]

Also, you could shim the cabinet off the floor about a 1/4" This will give the carpet guy a nice little space to tuck the carpet under, treat it similar to when installing wall trim, but maybe not quite as high. I usually allow for the thickness of a standard base molding. As far as letting the guy install the carpet then remove it later, why pay for carpet you don't plan on keeping anyway. It may be a couple 2 or 3 yards, but at $30 or so that's a good router bit for the collection.

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Scott. The carpet is is paid for as a whole so scraping a few square feet here or there won't change anything or save me any money. We bought it to fit the entire room (there were a few weeks were the EC may not have gone in at all and we might've been selling the house) and as it turns out, we will use 98% of it save for this little area for the builit-in.

I'll post before and after pics of the carpet install...man, it should look so much nicer! :D

[Mark Singer]

Chris ,
You can go with 3/4 or 9/12 either would work well since they are the same! Nice drawings!

[Jerry Olexa]

3/4 or better. 90% of time 3/4. G'Luck Jerry

[John Bush]

Hi Chris, Looks like you're having a good time with this impressive project. What type of program did you use for the design images. I'm not much of a techy, but this kind of design imaging looks like fun. Is this professional grade or is there a hobbiest version? Thanks and keep us posted on your progress. John.

[Byron Trantham]

Chris, one thought. Do you ever plan to move? If so, it might be nice to take the ET with you. If you carpet around it, that becomes less of an option. Just a thought. :p

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Guys!

John, I am using a program from Punch! Software called Home Design: Architectural Series 18. For general project design, I wouldn't recommend it. For designing a home with all the details, it is quite nice! However, with some patience, it can work for project design as I have used it. Sketch-Up is pretty nice for project design but carries a hefty price tag

Byron, I certainly don't plan to move but one never knows about these things. Certainly I will have A LOT into the EC design but it will have to stay with the house regardless. The TV room (see New Carpet... in the OT section) received the carpet and I had it installed under the TV cart but it is bare under the cabinet to the left of the fireplace. I have the chunk that was cut out of there so it *might* be possible to patch but I kinda doubt it.

Here are some pics of 120 board feet of rough 10/4+ (eastern) maple (8-12" wide) and 10 feet long. I paid $4/bd. ft. + tax so you're looking at a little over $500 in maple. Tim Sproul set up the wood buying deal and several of us went to his house to pick up our share. My truck is loaded up with about 180-190 bd. ft. of maple (picked up some for another guy) and she handled it pretty well!