eurekazone 100" rail system...purchase

[chris fox]

Because of limited cash for hobbies now and losing out on buying a Jet Cab saw at a great price I plan to buy the Eurekazone rail system. I love Festool and have waited to see the Dewalt system. I just cant afford the Festool right now so thats out.
I have no idea when and where to buy the Dewalt track system. I need to start ASAP on a project where I need to cut down about 4-5 sheets of veneer ply for a project so the Dewalt is out.
Unfortunalty, my 5 1/2" Skil saw which is lefty:mad: wont work with the Eurekazone rail.
And my old skil is used for masonary and metal cutting - near dead.

My question is, I havent seen too many rants about the Eurekazone product - I always like to know the pros and cons/limitations of a tool
before buying. Are there any rants other than whats obvious i.e.,dust collection with the system. Accuracy?
I have searched this but hits usually come back as how someone has used the system for a project and not about the quality/limitations?

Input?

Thanks,
Chris

[Randal Stevenson]

Look downstairs at the EZ forums. Around here ANY posts about the EZ in general, get hit with requests as "doesn't this have its own forum, why do we have to see this here".

Several of the moderators, and I am sure other users, use this tool (and aren't regular posters in the below forum, so please respond to him). A good portion of his customers, probably use it only as an edge guide (how I got started). You will need several bits of info.

Are you right or left handed? (the hand that you use on the trigger, as the other could be used with other accessories at a later date, such as the square).
Dust collection has improved and you can order a saw that is prefit for it, from his site. Accuracy will also be effected by handedness. If you use a right bladed saw as a left hander, and measure as a lefty, you do end up at time cutting the blade kerf out of your work. (DAMHIK).

Down below, I am sure you will get the recommendation to go with the 114" model rather then the 100" model. This makes crosscuts easier with one rail (the 64" rather then the 50" on a 48" board).

I would like to be able to see people asking about this in the general forum, as it is still a newbies general woodworking question. But I expect reality to show more help in the specific forum.

[Jim Becker]

If you are not ready to commit to either a specific guided system or a table saw that will accommodate your needs, you could use a simple clamping straight edge with you current saw to knock down a few sheets of plywood with reasonable accuracy if you are careful and methodical. There are many folks who do this on a regular basis rather than spring for one of the larger guided rail systems.

[Dan Clark]

The Dewalt track saw is probably out too. It costs MORE than the Festool saw. Regarding the EZ system, check in their forum. You'll get good feedback.

One caution, however... A good saw with a good rail will give you good cuts. A POOR saw with the BEST rail will give you mediocre cuts. Don't skimp on the saw.

Dan.

[Matt Meiser]

I have no idea when and where to buy the Dewalt track system.

I got an ad in the mail literally minutes ago with the answer to this question. Rockler has it for $499.99 for the corded model with a 59" track, a 48" track, and a track connector.

[chris fox]

thanks all...I will check out Rockler - I didnt see the Dewalt kit there the other day.
Current I use the a clamping straight edge, blue tape to prevent tearout, flip the good side down and measure saw plate convert to wood....time consuming.
Or rough cut with the circular saw and do my fine cuts on the TS if its within 30" that my Jet contractors saw allows.

I didnt even see the EZ forum, thansk for pointing it out...

[Homer Faucett]

Current I use the a clamping straight edge, blue tape to prevent tearout, flip the good side down and measure saw plate convert to wood....time consuming.
Or rough cut with the circular saw and do my fine cuts on the TS if its within 30" that my Jet contractors saw allows.

I didnt even see the EZ forum, thansk for pointing it out...

This is the shop made alternative to buying a guide system. http://benchnotes.com/Skillsaw%20Guide/skillsaw_cutting_guide_boa.htm

The thin piece of ply at the bottom acts as a ZCI to help prevent tear-out, and eliminates your need to measure the saw plate. Get a good 36 or 40 tooth finishing blade (required for any decent cuts) to make your results better. Simple and cheap, and accuracy should not be a problem.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Be sure whatever saw you use with the EZ rails will allow you the depth of cut you will need. The EZ adapter uses a little of the depth of cut. This issue is typically not a problem when cutting 3/4" sheet goods.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Because of limited cash for hobbies now and losing out on buying a Jet Cab saw at a great price I plan to buy the Eurekazone rail system. I love Festool and have waited to see the Dewalt system. I just cant afford the Festool right now so thats out.
I have no idea when and where to buy the Dewalt track system. I need to start ASAP on a project where I need to cut down about 4-5 sheets of veneer ply for a project so the Dewalt is out.
Unfortunalty, my 5 1/2" Skil saw which is lefty:mad: wont work with the Eurekazone rail.And my old skil is used for masonary and metal cutting - near dead.

My question is, I havent seen too many rants about the Eurekazone product - I always like to know the pros and cons/limitations of a tool
before buying. Are there any rants other than whats obvious i.e.,dust collection with the system. Accuracy?
I have searched this but hits usually come back as how someone has used the system for a project and not about the quality/limitations?

Input?

Thanks,
Chris

Hi Chris.
You can use your saw and have great dust collection the same time.
Are you left or right handed?



Thanks.
Dino Makropoulos
Eurekazone.

[chris fox]

I am a righty.

[Dino Makropoulos]

I am a righty.

You can use a left blade saw to finish the job at hand.
For daily use the right blade saw is much better for panel sizing.

For accurate and fast cutting you need to start with a squaring-trimming cut.
This is where the right blade saw comes into play.

Without a good squaring device your cuts may be parrallel but not square.
The square goes on the left side of the rail and you hold it with your left hand.
The sawblade is on the right side of the rail and everything works fine.

If you can make your marks with a large square and position the rails at your marks,
you can have a good but not a perfect and quick job.

Here is a video that may help you to see how easy is to work with the right saw for the right job.

How to square panels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVFXSdkGm94&NR=1

[Burt Waddell]

Chris,

Here is a link to some of the saws that I use. One of these is the Skil 5 1/2" saw. It isn't my favorite but it is highly adequate.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?Uc=drgivcf.3ssb81a3&Uy=cb177h&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0&mode=fromshare&conn_speed=1


Burt

[chris fox]

I am confused by using a lefty saw(Skil 5 1/2). I noticed the saw carrier is not symmetrical for use on the rails or is it? In that case why wouldnt it be just as easy to use left or right saws for ripping down sheets?

Can the SGS-100" offer parallel and square cuts w/o the cabinet maker attachments. I feel that I need to spend another $120 for these attachements?
Chris

[Randal Stevenson]

I am confused by using a lefty saw(Skil 5 1/2). I noticed the saw carrier is not symmetrical for use on the rails or is it? In that case why wouldnt it be just as easy to use left or right saws for ripping down sheets?

Can the SGS-100" offer parallel and square cuts w/o the cabinet maker attachments. I feel that I need to spend another $120 for these attachements?
Chris


It has to do with a few factors. Taking into account keeper piece and blade kerf (blade could take out of your keeper piece), using other accessories with it (the square as an example), and the safety aspect. (a issue in Canada by regulation, not here so much, the motor is supposed to be between you and the work and then you also don't get dust blown toward you).

[Dino Makropoulos]

I am confused by using a lefty saw(Skil 5 1/2). I noticed the saw carrier is not symmetrical for use on the rails or is it? In that case why wouldnt it be just as easy to use left or right saws for ripping down sheets?

Can the SGS-100" offer parallel and square cuts w/o the cabinet maker attachments. I feel that I need to spend another $120 for these attachements?
Chris

Chris,
You can get the same results with $30.00
The rails are designed to receive many "non ez" tools ( less money)
that you can buy or you may own already.
The results are the same.
Even if you don't go with ez rails, call me and I will direct you to the right stuff for your job at hand.
I can't post all the details here.

[Peter Pedisich]

Chris,

One thing you'll never have with any of the Eurekazone products is regret.

I have a 64" rail, the square and cabinetmaker, and an old (10years) Bosch CS.

The cuts I get with this $99 Bosch with a $15 Freud blade are exactly like the cuts I get from my Festool ATF55. I'm not exagerating to make a point, they are actually the same cut edge. The Freud blades cost me only a couple of bucks more than a resharpening on the Festool blade, and when I got my festool blade back from the sharpening service, the cut quality was degraded sharply, certainly due to improper sharpening.
Buy a couple of Freud blades from HD when on sale and you're good to go.

Also, the Festool and DeWalt are plunge saws, and although this is a great feature sometimes, most of the time I prefer the ease of a conventional saw, which is what the EZ system works with.

The dust collection on the Bosch with mods is about the same as with the ATF55.

The thicker EZ rails are much more substantial, with better clamping, but they are heavier and more cumbersome.

I just used the square/cabinetmaker this past weekend, and it worked like a charm, even without clamping. But the 64" rail is not meant for crosscuts in a cramped garage shop!

If I had to do it over again, I would have gone with the EZ system.

Good Luck,

Pete

[Homer Faucett]

Chris,
You can get the same results with $30.00
The rails are designed to receive many "non ez" tools ( less money)
that you can buy or you may own already.
The results are the same.
Even if you don't go with ez rails, call me and I will direct you to the right stuff for your job at hand.
I can't post all the details here.

With due respect, you should not need to call someone to figure out the system that they are selling. I have almost bought the EZ system a few times over the last few years, but if it takes me 3 hours to try to figure out what I need for my particular setup, I can convince myself that I can get by with a shop made jig that I can manufacture in less time and for far less money. I've watched the videos and seen your website, but still have to try to sift through the Eurekazone forum to determine what components are required to do what.

I know you must have a good product, as you have some rabid fans. However, it should not require this much head scratching to determine why you should buy a package or what the heck a "power bench" is, and why it's better than an assembly table.

I believe that you have a great system that could really be the next big thing if you get some marketing guru's to put together a website and promotional video to simply convey the benefits of each part. It's just not there yet. I'm sure there's a big market for your product, but you have to sell me on it in less than 5 minutes if you expect me to plunk down more than $300 on a package deal. If it takes longer than that to explain, I've already made my plywood guide for less than $5.

For instance, I see you are now recommending the Makita as the ideal saw to use with your system. Two years ago, it was the PC Mag 325. I know, as I bought a PC Mag 325 with the intention of getting into the EZ system. A month or two later, you recommended the Hilti 267e. I similarly get conflicting ideas from different people posting on what they believe is the ideal EZ setup for the money.

I say this with the utmost respect for the time an enthusiasm you have put into this project. The elevator pitch is just lacking. I wish you the best of luck, as I know small startups have a lot of difficulties to overcome, and you have shown that you can make it longer than most. That is truly a testament to your product. I just haven't figured it out yet.

[Dino Makropoulos]

Homer,
Thanks for the constructive feedback.
We're moving into a larger factory with extra room to shoot good videos, pictures and offices for the marketing gurus.:cool:

For instance, I see you are now recommending the Makita as the ideal saw to use with your system. Two years ago, it was the PC Mag 325. I know, as I bought a PC Mag 325 with the intention of getting into the EZ system. A month or two later, you recommended the Hilti 267e. I similarly get conflicting ideas from different people posting on what they believe is the ideal EZ setup for the money.

The PC MAG is one of the best saws ever made.
Hilti and Makita released their saws later.
You can't go wrong with any of the recommended saws.
Even the Hitachi and the Worx saw are on the top of the
ez recommended list for "best value" saws.

I just haven't figured it out yet.

We use the system every day and we have the same problem.
We will focus all our energy to solve this problem the next few weeks.:cool:

Thanks.

[Dave Falkenstein]

thanks all...I will check out Rockler - I didnt see the Dewalt kit there the other day.
...

Chris - If you are reconsidering the Dewalt saw and guide rails, then you might also want to reconsider the Festool saw and guide rails. As Dan Clark pointed out in an earlier post, there is not much price difference between Dewalt and Festool, and with Festool you start building a "system".

[lamar bailey]

Rockler and a few other vendors are running a deal if you preorder the Dewalt you get a free 2nd track and adapter. This will allow you to cut 8ft.

Pre-order price is $499.

I will order one if I sale my panel saw.

[James Hart]

Chris,

I PM'd you. I live in Phoenix and have a 105" Festool rail I can part with.

Jim

[James Hart]

Look downstairs at the EZ forums. Around here ANY posts about the EZ in general, get hit with requests as "doesn't this have its own forum, why do we have to see this here".


Randal,

So far I think this is a great thread that belongs in the general forum. The OP is being given balanced choices to his original question, no one is trashing others choices and it's more educational than promotional.
I'm wide open to learning about EZ from actual users in a civil tone. An occasional correction or clarification from a manufacturer is great. No selling, no denigrating competing products.

Jim

[John Schreiber]

With due respect, you should not need to call someone to figure out the system that they are selling.
. . . .
I believe that you have a great system that could really be the next big thing if you get some marketing guru's to put together a website and promotional video to simply convey the benefits of each part. It's just not there yet. . . . .
I've got to agree with Homer. The product is clearly great and Dino is certainly brilliant with product development and customer service. But, I find looking at the packages and options confusing. First it looks like I can do great things with little money, then I start seeing more and more options and it's hard to tell what I really need, then it looks like a lot more money and it looks like I need some expertise to set the system up to do everything I want. And, I can see even more cool things in the forum, that I'm not sure where I get the stuff to do that or if I really need it or how much it costs.

Part of the challenge is that EZ requires a change in the way woodworkers are used to thinking and that a table saw seems more straight forward to the uninitiated.

Another challenge is depth of cut. Probably 80% of my work is less than an inch and a quarter, but that remaining 20% is important. If it can't at least do 2 by lumber, I don't think I could go that way. I'd be willing to a commit to a reasonably priced dedicated saw if it were necessary for that to happen.

All that complaining is legit, but I love:

dead wood concept,
generally improved safety,
easy set up for each cut,
relatively lower cost,
ability to use existing tools,
dust collection,
quality of the cut,
better use of space,
possibility of buying into the system slowly,
community of problem solvers here at the Creek,
Dino's enthusiasm for the product.

I've got little money to spend, and my budget is blown for this year, but I will make a decision at some point.

I suspect many people are in the same situation and I hope this is useful feedback.

[Burt Waddell]

I've got to agree with Homer. The product is clearly great and Dino is certainly brilliant with product development and customer service. But, I find looking at the packages and options confusing. First it looks like I can do great things with little money, then I start seeing more and more options and it's hard to tell what I really need, then it looks like a lot more money and it looks like I need some expertise to set the system up to do everything I want. And, I can see even more cool things in the forum, that I'm not sure where I get the stuff to do that or if I really need it or how much it costs.

Part of the challenge is that EZ requires a change in the way woodworkers are used to thinking and that a table saw seems more straight forward to the uninitiated.

Another challenge is depth of cut. Probably 80% of my work is less than an inch and a quarter, but that remaining 20% is important. If it can't at least do 2 by lumber, I don't think I could go that way. I'd be willing to a commit to a reasonably priced dedicated saw if it were necessary for that to happen.

All that complaining is legit, but I love:

dead wood concept,
generally improved safety,
easy set up for each cut,
relatively lower cost,
ability to use existing tools,
dust collection,
quality of the cut,
better use of space,
possibility of buying into the system slowly,
community of problem solvers here at the Creek,
Dino's enthusiasm for the product.

I've got little money to spend, and my budget is blown for this year, but I will make a decision at some point.

I suspect many people are in the same situation and I hope this is useful feedback.

John,

That is a great post. It shows a lot of insight into the system.

Someone mentioned that Dino has recommended different saws at different times. This has to do with what is available.

A few months ago, Makita came out with the 5007MGA. It will cut over 1 1/2" on the EZ rail. A few months later, Makita came out with the 5008MGA. This saw is rated at 8 1/4" but an 8 1/2" blade will fit. This gives a cutting depth of 2 1/4". That will handle not only the 2x but will also do the 8/4. The most recent addition to the Lineup is the Makita 5104 - a 10 1/4" saw. COmpared to other large saws on the market, this one is beautiful both in performance and looks. Fit and finish are great and the saw just glides down the rail. I got this one so I could sell my unisaw and and maintain the same depth of cut- actually I lose 1/8".

Again, thanks for a great post.

Burt

P. S. A new web site is in the works.