An important safety reminder - too graphic to post

[Russell Tribby]

A friend of mine that owns his own cabinet shop sent me some pics that had come his way of a gentleman that had been pulled into a lathe. It looks like the clothing he was wearing must have been snagged by the lathe. I imagine he didn't know what hit him. The pictures are very graphic. I usually have a stomach for this stuff but seeing these really made me step back and further appreciate the safety precautions that we should all be taking in the shop. If you are interested in seeing the pictures I can forward them to you, they are far too graphic to post on the forum. I have no relation to nor do I know the gentleman but my prayers certainly go out to his family.

[Alex Shanku]

I saw those pics the other day and thought about bringing it up on the forum, too. The pics are far too graphic to post on this forum, but they are certainly a grisly reminder about the potential dangers in a workshop.

[John Schreiber]

Is the guy ok? or ?

I don't need to see the pictures.

[Russell Tribby]

Is the guy ok? or ?

I don't need to see the pictures.

I didn't think it would bother me to see the pics but it is pretty disturbing. I don't know exactly what happened but I would imagine that he was killed instantly.

[James Williams 007]

I was dumb enough to look at the pics and I read the comments expecting sympathy and some advice and the normal responses but instead it was a bunch of vile disgusting idiots that seemed to enjoy it. It scares the heck out of me to think that there are people out there that would make comments like the ones they made. I really feel for the guy and his family. After seeing these pics I have a sick feeling and I also have the urge to go down to my shop and review my machines and make sure I am using them safely. I will have those pics in the back of my head the next time I fire a machine up and I hope it will keep me on my guard! I have had one serious accident when I was just getting into woodworking and I was being stupid and paid the price. Luckily there was no nerve damage and all I have to show for it is a jagged scar on my hand but I think about it when ever I'm in the shop!

[Brian Clevenger]

I'm not looking.

[Toney Robertson]

That was unbelievably bad and the pictures were VERY graphic but some context needs to be given to those who do not want to look at the pictures.

He was using a LARGE metal lathe spinning a large piece of metal. While safety should always be paramount and loose clothing around a lathe is not advised, IMO most home wood lathes (which I would think is much more common than metal lathes) would not have the power to inflict this kind of damage. I am sure you could get hurt but not to the point of dying.

[chris yount]

I really feel for the man and his family.I dont need to see the pictures and I dont have to use my imagination.
I work in a machine shop that has huge lathes .That range from 16"-100" swings, 400" long beds and can handle up to 100 ton.I have to remind myself not to be complacent daily.It is far to easy to be going through the motions forget something on the set up or feed something in too fast.These machines are so unforgiving one small mistake can kill several people when parts start flying from breakage.

Chris

[Jeff Atnip]

When I was younger, I would eagerly look at stuff like this. But I now realize that these kind of images are un-erasable. Death is real for all of us and gore is no longer a thrill.

On a related note, I was in the hand-therapy clinic the other day getting treatment for a problem with my little finger. Sitting at the next table was a young guy and I nonchalantly asked him, "What are you in for?". He couldn't wait to show me a picture of his hand that he had taken on his cell phone. He worked in a guitar factory and he had slipped on a wet floor. As he fell, he reached out and grabbed a spinning router bit. The picture he took was right after the accident. Needless to say, I wish I had not looked.

[Dave Loebach]

I usdd to have a lathe (Delta/Rockwell) with a 1/2 hp motor on it. htat is what I did my biginning turning on. I'd get annoyed at times when my tool (usually a skew) would stick and stop the wood from turning. The motor would keep turning but the belt would slip. Now I have lathe with a 2 hp direct drive motor on it. Nothing is going to stop that motor, including my skew or clothing that catches. Since these big lathes have become popular, you suddenly see cages to shield the work and dead centers used for drives so that you have slip. Bigger isn't always better and in the case of lathes, all that power usually isn't necessary and it raises the risks.

[Skip McKenzie]

A woodworker frind of mine had a rule in his shop,,,,,,,,there are 2 switches to turn on the 1 in your head and the 1 on the tool. Bottom line, pay attention. I feel for the guy.

[Jared Larrow]

I can only hope it was a quick death for his sake.

J

[Christopher Fletcher]

Seriously, no pictures needed...I don't need to hear any details either. I got this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach just now. Mostly because I've seen some grizzly things before and I can only imagine what might happen.

James, I agree whole heartedly. The thought of people making depraved comments about another person's accident truly triggers a primal unrest.

[Jim Underwood]

Man. That's really sad. What a way to go. Be careful out there guys.

I've been thinking of getting a larger lathe, but perhaps I'll stick with my Mini. It does enough damage with it's small motor.

[Nathan Hawkes]

I feel for his family, and his coworkers that might have been around when it happened. I made the mistake of looking at the pics. DO NOT LOOK AT THE PICS!!!!!!!!!! IT IS HORRIFYING. I'm in nursing school, and have seen some pretty terrible things in the hospital, but this was above and beyond anything I could possibly imagine in any horror movie. I can't believe people actually put these pictures online.

Although this was a HUGE machine and undoubtedly gear driven, even a mini-lathe is capable of doing serious damage. This has most definitely made me think about shop safety being a #1 priority ALL THE TIME.

Stay safe, people.

[Toney Robertson]

I feel for his family, and his coworkers that might have been around when it happened. I made the mistake of looking at the pics. DO NOT LOOK AT THE PICS!!!!!!!!!! IT IS HORRIFYING. I'm in nursing school, and have seen some pretty terrible things in the hospital, but this was above and beyond anything I could possibly imagine in any horror movie. I can't believe people actually put these pictures online.

Although this was a HUGE machine and undoubtedly gear driven, even a mini-lathe is capable of doing serious damage. This has most definitely made me think about shop safety being a #1 priority ALL THE TIME.

Stay safe, people.

Nathan,

While no one would debate the need for shop safety isn't your statement "even a mini-lathe is capable of doing serious damage" just a bit over the top?

I guess one would have to define "serious damage" but in my mind the chances of getting seriously hurt (amputation, surgery, death) on a mini-lathe is very small. Your sig line about big chain saws is much, much more likely to get you a ride in an ambulance.

Look at that youtube video. If he has not been to the ER yet then it has GOT to be safe! :rolleyes:

Toney

[Mark Patoka]

I don't need to see the pics but I can imagine how it ended up. It reminds me of when I took a farm safety class back in high school and there were special warnings about the power tack off (PTO) shaft on a tractor and some kid got too close when it was running, clothing got caught and it was all over in a few seconds. Always a good reminder when working with any tool.

[Jim Underwood]

This incident got me to thinking (and reminded me of another incident involving a PTO at work- luckily the man was not killed, but it was traumatic for all involved- I wound up holding the guy til the ambulance came) about lathes and bandsaw accidents.

I've heard it said that bandsaws have the highest rate of accidents among stationary power tools, but that lathes have the highest rate of fatalities.

My first question is where can one find the statistics for this.

My second question is whether they lump all lathes in this category, wood and metal lathes. I figure that metal lathes are probably more dangerous as they tend to be more powerful. Also, I wonder what the incidence of fatalities are when the size of the wood lathe goes down - say to a Jet mini, or a Delta Midi... I wonder if there are any fatalities involving a mini lathe.

If anyone can shed light on this for me, I'd be much appreciative. And perhaps feel a bit better about my hobby.:o

[Nathan Hawkes]

Nathan,

While no one would debate the need for shop safety isn't your statement "even a mini-lathe is capable of doing serious damage" just a bit over the top?

I guess one would have to define "serious damage" but in my mind the chances of getting seriously hurt (amputation, surgery, death) on a mini-lathe is very small. Your sig line about big chain saws is much, much more likely to get you a ride in an ambulance.

Look at that youtube video. If he has not been to the ER yet then it has GOT to be safe! :rolleyes:

Toney

Toney, I must respond with an emphatic NO! it is not over the top. The signature I had about big chainsaws was meant as a joke. People that "play" with chainsaws do have a very significant chance of injuring themselves I have removed it as I don't want anyone else getting the wrong idea. I am not a hotsaw owner, competitor, or enthusiast in any way, shape, or form. I do have a big chainsaw, but it is with GREAT respect that I use it as a TOOL, not a toy. I have steel toed boots, 12 layer kevlar chaps, polycarbonate goggles, a helmet/steel mesh face shield, safety chainsaw gloves, ear protection, etc. that I do not ever go without. I used a chainsaw for a long time without any protection until I found out about kevlar chaps. The chance of serious injury from a mini-lathe is yes, lower than that of a geared metal lathe, but go ahead and wear loose clothing and see what happens. A mini-lathe is absolutely capable of tearing off your finger if you were to wrap sandpaper or a polishing cloth around it and have it get caught in the spinning work. Its capable of breaking a bone if you were to hit a knuckle on a spinning chuck jaw. That's not going to kill you, but when you use your fingers to play an instrument, or for woodworking for that matter, it is yes, a very serious injury. I don't know what youtube video you're talking about, but I don't think it would be a good idea for anyone to assume that just because some moron hasn't hurt himself doing something silly means that it must be safe for everyone.

[Don Abele]

When I first read this, I thought...errr...I'm not going to look...but...the more I read, the more this accident sounded familiar. So I went and looked - this is not a new accident. If I remember correctly, this is quite a while old. I remember seeing these photos in the past. I can't remember when, but it was at least a couple of years ago.

I spent over 20 years practicing medicine, with five of them working with military medical examiners office, so there's not much I haven't seen. I must say that they are VERY graphic photos, but unfortunately, I have seen worse. With that in mind, I really studied them closely to find a point to all of it...

I won't go into details (because it's not necessary), but here's what I can gather from the photos:

* Whatever happened, he did not catch either of his hands or arms - they are clear of the accident.

* He was wearing at least three layers of clothing on his upper body, including what appears to be a heavy outer garment, a long sleeved shirt, and a t-shirt. This appears to the major cause of the accident - loose clothing.

* Now how could that clothing catch? There appears to be a file stuck in the top jaw of the chuck. My assumption would be that he was using it too close to the chuck and it caught, threw his arm down and to the right, pulling him forward, where the clothing on his left shoulder caught on the material he was turning and pulled him in.

So, the wrong tool for the job, working too close to the chuck, and wrong clothing. Things that ALL of us have done or possibly can do without thinking. In this guys unfortunate case, he was working on a very large and unforgiving machine. While most of us may not work on that size of machinery, it still goes without saying that we should all be vigilant and exercise the utmost caution - we all work in a very dangerous hobby.

If you choose to view the photos, DO NOT read the posts - they are much worse than the photos. There is never ANY reason to post comments like that in regards to such a tragic accident.

Everyone be safe...

Doc

[Toney Robertson]

Nathan,

Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. On the dangerous scale, using a mini-lathe would be WAY down the list of things I do ever day. I seriously doubt that a mini-lathe can amputate a finger. If you can point me to some news stories or statistics showing serious injuries caused by mini-lathes then I will modify my position.

I "got" your levity regarding chainsaws. Once again I was just making the point that a mini-lathe is not close to the top of dangerous activities that woodworkers do on almost a daily basis.

As far as the Youtube video goes there is a reason I used a sarcastic smile that you evidently did not comprehend. I was sarcastically stating that since the uneducated gentleman on the video had not been hurt it had to be safe.

I believe we can agree that safety in the shop should be always be a concern.


Toney

[Justin Leiwig]

When I was in highschool a friend and I were machining some parts for my truck on a Leroi geared lathe. The bolt we had used to hold the steel disks to the chuck became stuck because of the rotations. So being the smart highschool kids we were we used a box end wrench wedged against the toolpost and turned the lathe on. When the wrench broke into two pieces, one went flying within an inch of my friends head and the other embedded itself in the concrete between my feet. Ever since that incident I have had a respect for power tools. Suprisingly Drill presses can cause a lot more damage than most think. I have a friend who lost the use of his hand because he was wearing a glove that got caught when he was stupid and tried to slow the already turned off drill press by grabbing the jacobs chuck with the gloved hand.

[Sean Troy]

It so important to get these reminders once in awhile as it's so easy to get complacent with a long run of everything working out OK. I cut off two fingers on a bandsaw years ago and still pray every time I use the bandsaw now. It's one tool that gives me the willies.

[Charles Israel]

After a quick review of all the postings on this topic, we can all agree that the primary emphasis is safety. Any tool, powered or hand, can result in serious injury if used incorrectly.

Given the right conditions, a simple open-end wrench can contribute to finger loss. We all are working longer and expected to produce more -- we get in a rush, do not think and an injury results.

I have lost friends to farming accidents -- every year it happens. I have been injured at work (should be able to do stitching myself by now) as have co-workers. Warning labels on drill presses and lathes highlight loose clothing and gloves -- you can hurt yourself because you were wearing a glove or because you were not -- go figure.

Toney, please do no excuse the dangers of a tool just because of this: "If you can point me to some news stories or statistics showing serious injuries caused by mini-lathes then I will modify my position." Doubtless anyone here would not want to read a post from someone reading these essays and reporting they had subsequently been injured.

As many have already stated: Please be careful. Safety is an everyday thing. When any task becomes automatic, there is heightened danger of injury.

Charles

[curtis rosche]

where can the pics be found? this is a horrible accident. but maybe by showing an example of what could happen some of the kids at my school will be a little safer

[Jim Evans]

Curtis - google is your friend - I found them but did not see any reason to view them. My imagination is good enough for me.

[Toney Robertson]

Charles,

I don't excuse the danger of any tool. Any tool that is used incorrectly has the potential to cause injury. My point to Nathan was that IMO mini-lathes are way down the list of dangerous machines. My statement of "If you can point me to some news stories or statistics showing serious injuries caused by mini-lathes then I will modify my position." was intended to illicit a link to statistics that would show me the dangers of a mini-lathe are substantial. As many mini-lathes that are out there, if they were/are truly dangerous then there would be statistics from ERs and doctors highlighting that fact.

I have worked with power tools for close to 40 years and chainsaw for over 30 years and yet the worst injury I have had was from a razor blade knife. Maybe I have been lucky or it is because I respect the tool and understand the danger. Some people should never even pick up a tool but most with some instruction could use power tools with out incident.

It seems that there are some discussions on the internet where reason takes a holiday. These include especially power tool safety and wood dust control. Hyperbole tends to pepper these threads. I have read such ridiculous statements as "It is extremely dangerous to touch a spinning piece of wood.". Statements such as this do more harm than good IMO especially to neophytes reading that thread. Safety is compromised as much by irrational fear as it is by an indifferent attitude. The highest level of safety is achieved between these two extremes.

Toney

[Alex Shanku]

I think a chip grabbed him.

Thats typical of how lathe accidents occur. The swarf grabs your sleeve, and if you cant break it in time, it pulls you in.

Could that be what happened here?

[Don Abele]

Alex, I'm not lathe guy and the assumption I posted above of how the accident occurred was based on my observation of the photos and experience in investigating fatal accidents.

I doubt his sleeve caught as both his arms are unaffected, which meant he wasn't pulled in by the sleeve. Without an official report though, we'll never know what happened.

Be well,

Doc

[John Abt]

Curtis,

If you look at the techniques video disc 1 from the AAW Symposium in Louisville, Dr. Mort Kasden conducted a safety demonstration that, while not as grizzly as this accident, certainly shows the dangers involved with wood lathes.

John