Pocket Screw Jigs

[Dr. Zack Jennings]

I have the Kreg Pocket Screw Jig and have only used it once. My friends in a local cabinet shop use them a lot: for face frames, drawer guides and internal components in cabinets.

I thought the advantage was in lining up butt joints for gluing w/o the need for clamps. My friends say that the joint is strong enough for face frames because face frames aren't all that structural. My kitchen cabinet's face frames are nailed and glued. I't looks like to me these Face Frames were assembled in place on the cabinet, one piece at a time. My 25 year old Kitchen still looks great to me.

I'm sure that there are more complicated and better methods of joinery but my friends cabinets are beautiful. He bids on new construction and remodels and has to be competitive on price. Pocket screws speed construction and save labor costs.

There were discussions on 2 other forums yesterday which stirred up some diverse opinions. I don't think either thread drew good conclusions.

I suppose that the decision to use pocket screws has to be weighed on a case by case basis.

<center> Do you use them?</center>

[Bob Lasley]

Dr. Zack,

I use pocket hole joinery on most face frames for kitchen and bath cabinets and built-ins. It is so much faster and easier than most any other method that I am familiar with. I am not above using a pocket hole screw on a piece of furniture if it will be hidden.

Bob

[John Miliunas]

A resounding "YES"! I do find them to be fast and accurate. And, I don't limit use of pocket holes to face frames, either. I've very successfully used them in main support structures for legs on a rather large and heavy coffee table. No racking whatsoever. Whether I use them in such fashion or on face frames, I also glue the joints. I haven't tried it yet, but I know other folks use them in building the carcass for cabinets, as well. I bought my Kreg Jig a number of years ago and, at the time, thought it may be a bit overpriced, but after the use I've gotten out of it, I no longer think so. Worth the $$$ IMHO. :cool:

[Lee Schierer]

I use pocket hole screws in every cabinet I make. It is a fast way to get things assembled and you can take it apart if you need to. Sometimes I use glue in the joints if I am really worried about strength .

There is nothing better for installing the dividers and dust frames in a dresser.

[Bob Lasley]

Originally posted by Lee Schierer
SOmetimes I use glue in teh jointts if I am really worried about strength .

Lee,

I don't use glue in pocket hole joints that may need to come apart later, but I do use glue on face frame joints. I believe the glue makes a stronger joint than the screws and consider the screws to act more as clamps. With both the glue and screws, it is all the stronger.

JMHO
Bob

[Dan Bussiere]

I was reluctant to spend the money for the Kreg jig, because I wasn't sure how well it would serve my purpose. I bought the cheaper $10 knock off version to try out on some scrap and it worked so well that I haven't bought the Kreg yet. When this cheap one finally wears out, I will spend the cash and get the bells and whistles. Pocket hole joinery has made my woodworking life much easier. I highly reccommend it to anyone who is considering the purchase.
Dan

[Phil Phelps]

If your building cabinets for a living, you'll need one of these. They aren't cheap, but worth it's weight is gold.

[Lee Schierer]

Originally posted by Bob Lasley
Lee,

I don't use glue in pocket hole joints that may need to come apart later, but I do use glue on face frame joints. I believe the glue makes a stronger joint than the screws and consider the screws to act more as clamps. With both the glue and screws, it is all the stronger.

JMHO
Bob

Just to clarify. I put my face frames to gether with lap joints. The face frame is glued up as a unit and then I attach the sides in rabbet joints in the back of the face frames. The dividers get screwed in with pocket hole screws. Sometimes I use the pocket hole screws in these dividers with glue, mostly just screws.

If I need to take a divider frame out, the pocket hole screws will let me do that. Once in a while it helps to be able to drill holes up through the frame for the drawer guide supports.

[Dave Avery]

Zack,

Like others, I use them often and like the Kreg jig. Dave.

[Todd Burch]

I use 'em. I have the ancestor to Phils machine, the Porter Cable with the pivoting router w/¼" mortising bit. Works great. I think Phils is faster.

I'm considering getting a Senco air corrugated fastener though, they have two models - gotta do more research. I like being able to shift things around if I mis-screw with the pocket screws though.

I'll also use mini-biscuits (Ryobi) and full size biscuits too. And, sometimes I just nail a face frame in place, one piece at a time.

I've done the ½-lap route for face frames, but it takes too long.

I haven't had an opportunity for a face frame that required full mortise and tenon joinery.

I'm thinking that if Thomas Chippendale would have had access to a router - he would have used it.

Todd.

[Jim Stastny]

Sure. I don't use them often, but when the need arises I do. One of my favorite uses is attaching table tops to aprons. This is especially effective when the top is an edge banded plywood and you don't need to worry about wood movement.

[Joe_Ott]

right now. I am building Cherry cabinets for my kitchen. Each case and face frame is going together with pocket screws using the Kreg pro kit. The face frames are attached with them as well. I'm also using glue.

I've used them for other projects too although I personally wouldn't use them for (fine) furniture. They somehow 'cheapen' things a little for me. I think they are fine for boxes like kitchen cabinets and/or vanities that the next owner is likely to rip out anyway. I stick with regular M/T's and so on for the nicer stuff.

I know from what friends have bought from the big box stores, and from what I've looked at, that the cabinets I'm screwing together are far superior to the, well, um, stuff they sell.

I think they are great when used in the correct place.

But, I'm no expert either! :)

Joe
raining ice in Cleveland

[Mike Vermeil]

On furniture, I've used them only for face frames, and there's no doubt about it - they work extremely well. On my last projct, some cherry wine cabinets, I held the face frame corners togther with pocket screws & glue, and then attached them to the carcases with a dado on the back of the frames accepting a tongue on the carcass. I left 1/32 or so extra on the face frames, and trimed that off with a router & flush cutting bit. It came out really nice.

A nice byproduct of this method is that if you make the ff joints accurately (a perfect 90 degrees), the frame is so strong, it will pull & hold the carcass into square - no need to worry about racking like when you attach the ff piece by piece.

Also, I've used the Kreig jig quite a bit around the house and it's saved me a lot of time & work. A hand rail was comming loose from a newel post, and I had no easy access to the inside to tighten the mounting bolt. Rather that spend a day or so disassembling and reassembling the post, I got out my Kreig jig, cut some pocket holes on the bottom of the handrail, job done.

[jack duren]

pocket hole screws have a production advantage. when i left florence,alabama 13-14 years ago we were doing the frames with M&T and dowels. when i moved here to the kansas city area i found everyone(cabinet shops) using pocket screws.

they have a great many positives, but they also have there negatives if not done incorrectly. now i find that most people are set in there ways depending on there earlier training. i was trained using dowels, so i like using dowels. but since i have a small part time cabinet shop. ive found that doweling is just counter productive and will have to move up to the pocket screws.

now on personal projects i use the dowels

racking,cracks,separation,rust,screw stripping,no glue,etc are all negatives of pocket screws. but high production over rules as usual......jack

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

We use pocket holes at the mesquite outfit to attach table tops to the frame/aprons. Mesquite movement is negligible, so we can get away with locking it down tight. The Kreg saved me literally DAYS of labor when I was putting the arena tables together...and it's paid for itself many times over since.

KC

[Rick Potter]

I have gone through about 12-1300 screws with mine. That is not hard to do. Maybe three kitchens worth.

I have found it very useful. I have had only two problems with mine, which is an early model. The vise grip clamp tended to discolor the oak when in contact with wet glue, so I glued some plastic over the metal jaws. Also, sometimes the joint moves a bit when I start to screw it together. If I am careful, it's ok. It is just when I am in a hurry.

By the way...the early models had no holes in the back for chip removal. I drilled 3/8" holes, and countersunk them. Works fine.

One other tip. Use a corded drill. They seem to work better than a cordless for this purpose.

Oh yeah, one last tip....be sure the drill is in the hole before starting it. I started mine a bit too soon, and have a divot in the opening of one hole. In a hurry again...left the drill running and tried to switch holes....bad idea.

Rick Potter