Bookshelf design question

[James Arvanetakis]

Hi,

I built some garage shelving similar to the sketchup drawing using sliding dovetails for the shelves. Everything went together 'ok'...but along the way I had a couple of difficulties...good thing to because SWMBO would like some bookshelves like you see in the drawing - and these are substantially larger than what I made in the garage.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=m25xjokwmmi&thumb=4%22%3E%3Cimg%20src=%22http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/73d59131ec37b5fd9420275553f8d9eb4g.jpghttp://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=m25xjokwmmi&thumb=4%5D%5BIMG%5Dhttp://www2.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/73d59131ec37b5fd9420275553f8d9eb5g.jpghttp://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/73d59131ec37b5fd9420275553f8d9eb6g.jpg

My biggest problem was the cheap Chinese birch ply...while cutting the tails for the sliding dovetails the tearout was just plain awful...really really bad. Since this was for the garage I persevered....but this is unacceptable for the living room.

I am hoping that grade A1 birch from our local store (Clark's in Houston) will not exhibit similar behavior...which leads to my main question.

Should I even bother making this with sliding dovetails or should I just resign myself to using shelf pins (euro-style)?

Obviously shelf pins are 'easier', but frankly the sliding dovetails were'nt difficult. The cheap ply was~...

Thanks in advance,
James

[Prashun Patel]

On that many, I'd prefer to line up the shelves and gang cut dados.

[James Arvanetakis]

Shawn,

I'd thought of that...what I actually did was cut the dovetail 'channel' across the piece of ply prior to ripping the ply into three pieces...that was pretty simple and easy...no misalignment issues...

Of course I still had to mill the tails on the individual shelves...which did take some time...
:rolleyes:

[glenn bradley]

I'm for dados as well.

[Jim Becker]

Dados or...splines/dowels/biscuits...for the short intermediate shelving. The latter grouping might be easier when assembling such a large structure and is similar to how commercial units of similar design are assembled. You'll want a "top shelf", too, to insure that the whole assembly doesn't spread/rack once it is put to work.

[James Arvanetakis]

What do you guys think about drilling holes (ala 32mm spaced holes) and just using shelf pins?

[John Schreiber]

You might compromise and put sliding dovetails at the top and at one of the middle shelves. That would get you most of their strength advantage, then you could use pins or dados for the rest. Without a back, there has to be something holding it together.

Another idea is to do it with each intersection cut half way through on each board. I'm not sure that would work, but it's an idea. I'm not explaining well. Here's a picture.
99811

Cheep ply is the bane of my existence this week. I swear their was a layer of dirt in there. The good stuff is so much better, but it is so much more expensive.

[Prashun Patel]

What do you guys think about drilling holes (ala 32mm spaced holes) and just using shelf pins?

Shelf pins will work fine too, but if it were me, I'd still want a couple fixed shelves (across top, at midspan, at bottom) for stability.

[James Arvanetakis]

John: I'm not certain...but I think my cheap ply had cats in it...at least that's what it sounded like while i was cutting :D

Shawn: Thanks for the tip...I think I have a plan formulating...top,mid,bottom...and something simple for the rest...

thanks all!

[Jim Becker]

Shawn is right, for something of that scale, it's essential to have some fixed shelving to hold the structure together. Even the basic Ikea Billy bookshelves have one fixed shelf half-way up, regardless of width. It serves to add strength to the structure so that the sides cannot spread and also provides an additional fastening point for the cabinet back that helps insure there is no racking. (If there is no cabinet back, you still need to set things up to keep the structure from racking, either by fastening securely to the wall at several points or by strapping some corners)

[James Arvanetakis]

Just wanted to follow up on this thread. Thanks for all the advice, both here and in other threads :)

I ended up going with cherry ply...and dado'd the standards for the shelves...Fastedge was the chosen edgebanding.

I fit the shelves to the ends of opposite walls ~ 20ft...all this was laid out in sketchup prior to cutting...and the 1st and last set of shelves were "adjusted" to width in order to provide a *very* tight fit through the entire case (in fact i had to use beeswax in order to lube the shelves into place...one can see some residual wax in the detail shot)...but no racking whatsoever...

Finally...I was all setup to finish them with Hybravir (sp?) from Target Finishing...but LOML liked the shellac look so much we stopped there...being bookshelves hopefully there won't be any inadvertent drinks or somesuch left on them :cool:

Only thing left to do is provide some secure points from the wall to the shelves should any small people decide they would like a climb :eek:

I couldn't get the entire shelves into the shot...without going for my fisheye lens...so only a perspective shot is provided...its almost half the entire shelves

[Prashun Patel]

Looks like it came out great. Congrats. Very neat work.

I didn't realize you could cut back-to-back dados with that thin of a web between them. Note to self...

Even if the heavier stuff ever scratches yr shellac finish, it's not that hard to spot touch up. I'm not suggesting you do anything if you're happy, but I'm partial to a final rubdown of a shellacked surface with pastewax and steel wool x4. Makes it smooth as glass.

Oh yeah, one question (I always wrestle with this for closet dividers):
How did you attach your uprights to the wall - cleats? Is there a case back I can't see?

[James Arvanetakis]

Thanks Shawn...the dados are 5mm which left approx 8mm for the center portion...except for one little mishap due to my negligence they all remained intact :-)

I haven't attached the uprights to the wall yet...and will probably only secure 3-4 of them when i do...

Since there is some space between the uprights and the wall my thinking has been to secure them via a small piece of wire rope and screws into the studs...which should provide enough security should a little one decide to go mountaineering :D

As things currently are I can barely budge the shelves due to the tightness of the fitting...the shelves are wedged between two opposing walls...