Online auctions are stupid

[Karl Brogger]

I use an Auction site called K-Bid. They're local, cabinet shops are going belly up all over the place here. At least once a month there is a cabinet shop that is closing its doors on there. Their auctions are set up very nice, bidding doesn't end untill 3 minutes have past with out a bid. Which beats the snot out of trying to sniper stuff on ebay.

A few months ago I was looking at a Ritter 5x12 face frame table. On the same auction there was also a nice Ritter door clamp. I opened two seperate windows and put them side by side so I could refresh the pages quickly and easily as the last few minutes trickled down. Had my bids ready. 1 minute left..... Entered the bid on one page, turned my attention to the other page and entered my bid on that one. Got things straightened out on the second page and the bid entered. Went back to the first page and I was too late. Some jerk got that face frame table for $1200. Then the door clamp kept on going higher and higher. I kept bidding. Just when I decided not to continue the bidding time expired. Regret sets in, "I would've paid that" "maybe even a bit more" "why didn't I keep bidding?" These thoughts haunt me.

The real kick in the pants is every auction I watch now things are way high. I was watching a pop up Whirlwind saw with a Tiger stop. The auction ends tomorrow and its already close to what its value actually is. There's a 5x8 face frame table, its currently at $850, which is the max I would've considered paying for it two weeks ago when this auction was listed. There are some seriously wacked people out there.

Online auctions aren't really stupid, I'm just whining. I've attended numerous auctions in person and walked away with the check I came with, and nothing in the trailer, or box of the pickup. On the other hand I've had to call my bank and tell them to cover a check after leaving an auction. Sometimes I almost feel bad. I got a $2500 line bore for $600, and a whole mess of other stuff at one once. Too bad the latter doesn't happen more often.

[Chuck Tringo]

Karl, we have a saying in the army, "...if Joe aint complaining, Joe aint happy..." which I think can apply to many of us in general, so your not doing anything that most of us probably do in private anyhoo :D so grip away....I know when I get sniped in ebay sometimes I want to drive halfway across the country to throttle the sniper...

[Karl Brogger]

know when I get sniped in ebay sometimes I want to drive halfway across the country to throttle the sniper...

LOL
Yeah, never had it happen to me. I'm always the sniper. I figure I'll pay X, I punch that in with about 3 seconds left. If I win, great! If not, it was going for more than I wanted to spend anyway.

Tip- always bid wierd numbers. If you're willing to pay $100 for something, bid $107.67. Seven bucks isn't much, depends on how much you want that item. You get the idea. Never bid on anything until towards the end, (if you don't want to play sniper), otherwise all you are doing is driving the price up prematurely.

F5 is a great key. It refreshes the page. The last thirty seconds you should be pushing that pretty much non-stop to see where things are going.

[Paul Steiner]

With online auctions you also have to consider the amount of time obsessing over the auction and watching the price. Sometimes I snipe sometimes I put my top price. But many times if you factor in time wasted online looking, watching, being there to snipe, you may not have saved any money.

On a side note about shop closures: Here in the DC area a cabinet shop was foreclosed on and they put all the machines, benches, and material out on the street. This was in a Washington Post article about 2 months ago. Apparently the owner had a stroke and was late on is mortgage. It was a free for all, they did not even allow the family to get into the shop before hand to pull things out. I like to get deals and I like things for free, but I don't know if I could have been part of that.

[Kevin Groenke]

Hey Karl,

Good to know who's out there sniping me... I recently bid on the Auction Masters' sale of the hardware store in Lake City. Same deal, most of the stuff went to near or over retail/replacement cost. Lots of extended bidding. I'd say that it's critically important to know what you're bidding on... what it's worth and more importantly what it's WORTH TO YOU. If you can attend a pre-sale viewing, DO IT, otherwise you'll be speculating about exactly what you're getting and you could get BURNED.

I did OK, ended up with a 12 gal Altos Attix tool triggered vac for $65 (gloat?) that baby in nice, quieter than the TURBOII, I took it to work, but upon researching it's value, it might be coming home this week.

http://www.industrialvacs.com/Attix_12_RDF_Super_Quiet_Wet_Dry_Vacuum_p/302000582.htm

and some stocked hardware cabinets for ~50% replacement cost, also a bunch of shims, veneer tape, and other stuff I really don't have much use for.

Auction Masters does well as does KBid. I've gotten some incredible deals in the past (37", 2 BELT TIMESAVER, $2500 most notably). But it's been a long since I've gotten a really gloatworthy deal.

-KG

[Karl Brogger]

Auction Masters does well as does KBid. I've gotten some incredible deals in the past (37", 2 BELT TIMESAVER, $2500 most notably). But it's been a long since I've gotten a really gloatworthy deal.

-KG


That's awesome! I paid over $5k for my singlehead 37" Timesavers Speedsander. Which isn't even made by Timesavers Inc, but does a good job. I didn't get it at an auction, I bought it through GC Peterson from another shop in, (I think), New Ulm.

[Eric Larsen]

Your argument doesn't fly with me.

In Japanese baseball, it's considered "dishonorable" to steal a base. Base stealing is in the rules, even in Japan. Everyone knows about it. Yet nobody there will steal second for fear of losing face.

I'd steal second in a heartbeat. After all, the object is to win the game. I don't want to see stories about how "polite" the Pittsburgh defensive line is. I want to see them win football games. Can you imagine if it was considered impolite to intercept a pass? Football would be boring.

So I'm ok with stealing bases, interceptions, and stripping the basketball away from the forward. And I also snipe auctions. Furthermore, I'm good at it. The object is to win. I don't care if it's "polite" or not.

Personally, my beef is with people that run the bids up with seven days left. What are they thinking? All they're doing is "working for the seller." If I'm selling an item on an auction site, there's nothing I like to see more than someone that enters their maximum bid the day I list the item. That's guaranteed money.

As a seller, I worry when I see 30 people "watching" the auction with no bids. That means I've got 30 savvy buyers (and I'm not going to make as much.)


Karl, we have a saying in the army, "...if Joe aint complaining, Joe aint happy..." which I think can apply to many of us in general, so your not doing anything that most of us probably do in private anyhoo :D so grip away....I know when I get sniped in ebay sometimes I want to drive halfway across the country to throttle the sniper...

[Jim Becker]

Personally, my beef is with people that run the bids up with seven days left. What are they thinking? All they're doing is "working for the seller."

Perhaps they really ARE working for the seller in some cases, Eric... ;)

I'm more of a "Buy It Now" kinda guy when it comes to the 'Bay 'cause it cuts out having to watch something and make all kinds of decisions. That's not to say I don't consider if it's a good price first, however...and shipping costs enter into that, too.

[Eric Larsen]

I wish eBay took a more aggressive stance toward shill bidding. Putting up a reserve auction costs an extra dime and negates the need for shills.

Jim, have you tried auctionsniper.com -- it will automatically snipe for you for 25 cents (per successful snipe). For most of the stuff LOML and I purchase, 25 cents is a bargain compared to what we save.

Plus there's no fretting and no decision making. There's no hitting the refresh button 50 times in the last minute of the auction. And it's kosher -- eBay owns auctionsniper.com, so obviously they don't have a problem with it.


Perhaps they really ARE working for the seller in some cases, Eric... ;)

I'm more of a "Buy It Now" kinda guy when it comes to the 'Bay 'cause it cuts out having to watch something and make all kinds of decisions. That's not to say I don't consider if it's a good price first, however...and shipping costs enter into that, too.

[Chris Padilla]

If I see something I want on eBay, I could care less when the auction expires. I put in a max bid of what I'm willing to pay and I ignore it after that. If I win, I win and if I don't, then no worries. I don't get into any frenzies bidding although I'm sure plenty of people do.

One needs to search eBay much like they search the internet for prices of an item. One example: I'm often looking to buy used 9-speed cassettes for my bicycle. They are at least 7-10 auctions per week for this item (Shimano CS-6500). Some auctions are for brand new ones listed at $50 and up. Most are lightly used and start at a $1 or $10. After watching these auctions for a week or two, I figured out that if I set my goal to spend $25 or less INCLUDING SHIPPING, I have about a 20% success rate of picking up a decent cassette for a good price. Now that I've accumulated various cassettes, I'm done and have plenty of them to last me quite a long time. Since I put 7,000 miles a year on my bike, this is an important item to have.

This isn't alway so easy with all items because sometimes that once-in-a-blue-moon comes item on eBay and, well, you just need to decide what strategy you think will work best for you. There are all kinds of bidders out there will all kinds of ideas of the best way to win these new kinds of auctions.

I've won with sniping in the past about as much as I've lost with sniping. It is all a crap shoot but it all comes down to how much do you want the item and how much will you pay and how risky will you be with your bidding (i.e. bid your max early or try to get it "cheaper" in the waning seconds).

[Jeff Duncan]

I never get sniped, I bid online in a very simple way, I enter how much I am willing to pay and walk away. Sitting around the computer waiting and worrying is a waste of time for me. If someone outbids me they spent more than I was willing to, it's that simple. Doesn't matter if they bid 3 days or 3 seconds before the end of the auction. And it doesn't matter if they only beat me by a dollar or $1000.
It always amuses me though when I win something and then see all the last second bids that tried to snipe it and failed b/c they waited until the last second.I do find generally though you get better deals on the industrial type online auctions as the really good deals on the more popular sites are much more rare.
JeffD

[Brad Sperr]

I also don't have a problem with ebay sniping. It seems to be how a lot of auction prices are decided anyway. I used to place my bid manually in the last few seconds, after days of watching an auction, but now I use a free auction sniping service, gixen.com. I just put in the maximum price I'd be willing to pay for an auction and then forget about it. Ebay will email me if I win or not.

[John Schreiber]

I understand the concept of sniping, both manually and by bot, but what happens if multiple people are sniping on the same auction?

[Jon Lanier]

I think most people are nuts. The price most things get to are so over the top for a used item. I've seen where idiots (yes I said that) bid and pay for a used item for over the regular market value on that same item brand new. Personally, I don't pay for used tools much over half of the original cost.

[Tom Veatch]

I understand the concept of sniping, both manually and by bot, but what happens if multiple people are sniping on the same auction?

Whoever places the largest maximum bid prior to the end of the auction buys the item. A sniping bid is absolutely no different than any other eBay proxy bid. The only thing that makes it a "snipe" is that it's placed in the closing moments of the auction.

Sniper #1 places a bid for a maximum amount either manually or by using sniping software, a "bot" if you will. That bid is received by the eBay proxy manager and it enters a bid is that is one bid increment above the existing high bid if the resulting bid is less than the maximum amount. Sniper #2 does the same thing. If maximum bid #2 is greater than the new high bid, the eBay proxy will enter a bid for sniper #2 that is one bid increment above the bid entered for #1 if that results in a bid that is less than #2's maximum bid. That process repeats until entering a bid would exceed the maximum bid of that particular bidder.

That is exactly the same process that occurs anytime a bid is entered for an eBay auction.

[John Schreiber]

. . .That is exactly the same process that occurs anytime a bid is entered for an eBay auction.
If I understand, putting your maximum bid in early or putting it in at the last second makes no difference, but putting it in early may motivate someone else to increase their bid above yours.

Is that right? Sounds like sniping is the way to go.

[Mike Seals]

If I see something I want on eBay, I could care less when the auction expires. I put in a max bid of what I'm willing to pay and I ignore it after that. If I win, I win and if I don't, then no worries. I don't get into any frenzies bidding although I'm sure plenty of people do.

One needs to search eBay much like they search the internet for prices of an item. One example: I'm often looking to buy used 9-speed cassettes for my bicycle. They are at least 7-10 auctions per week for this item (Shimano CS-6500). Some auctions are for brand new ones listed at $50 and up. Most are lightly used and start at a $1 or $10. After watching these auctions for a week or two, I figured out that if I set my goal to spend $25 or less INCLUDING SHIPPING, I have about a 20% success rate of picking up a decent cassette for a good price. Now that I've accumulated various cassettes, I'm done and have plenty of them to last me quite a long time. Since I put 7,000 miles a year on my bike, this is an important item to have.

This isn't alway so easy with all items because sometimes that once-in-a-blue-moon comes item on eBay and, well, you just need to decide what strategy you think will work best for you. There are all kinds of bidders out there will all kinds of ideas of the best way to win these new kinds of auctions.

I've won with sniping in the past about as much as I've lost with sniping. It is all a crap shoot but it all comes down to how much do you want the item and how much will you pay and how risky will you be with your bidding (i.e. bid your max early or try to get it "cheaper" in the waning seconds).


I AGREE 100%. Put what you are willing to pay and be done with it. I've sniped when the bidding is low and I notice most bidders have few bids under their belt. Sorry, it's the name of the game, but for the most part, put in what you want and check on it at the end. If you want it that bad......buy it new, let the store snipe you.

[Tom Veatch]

If I understand, putting your maximum bid in early or putting it in at the last second makes no difference, but putting it in early may motivate someone else to increase their bid above yours.

Is that right? Sounds like sniping is the way to go.

Exactly, when you get right down to it, the "motivate someone else" is the only reason sniping exists. If everyone simply entered the maximum amount they were willing to pay for the item, there would be no point to sniping.

[Dennis Peacock]

You know....there is absolutely nothing on eBay or any other auction for that matter, that I want so badly that I'll pay/bid more that what I can get it for retail. I've seen it way too many times. Something used for more than retail price. I just never figured that one out. :confused: :)

[Mike Cutler]

One needs to search eBay much like they search the internet for prices of an item. One example: I'm often looking to buy used 9-speed cassettes for my bicycle. They are at least 7-10 auctions per week for this item (Shimano CS-6500). Some auctions are for brand new ones listed at $50 and up. Most are lightly used and start at a $1 or $10. After watching these auctions for a week or two, I figured out that if I set my goal to spend $25 or less INCLUDING SHIPPING, I have about a 20% success rate of picking up a decent cassette for a good price. Now that I've accumulated various cassettes, I'm done and have plenty of them to last me quite a long time. Since I put 7,000 miles a year on my bike, this is an important item to have.


Chris

11-21 for the west coast, 11-23 for colorado, 11-26 for New England. 54/39 up front,and be done with it.;)

Just kidding bro'. Snap up those cassettes. Shimano is pretty ruthless about dropping a line completely when a new line comes out. That's what caused me to go Campy years ago. ( That Dura Ace bottom bracket required 2 separate, newly designed, spline tools for installation!)

The cyclocross boys,and girls, eat cassettes for breakfast. Get 'em while you can.

[Karl Brogger]

Holy cows!

-3 model 27 Powermatic shapers. 1 for $1702, 2 for $1675, a little spendy but not outrageous. Still high in my book, I payed $1200 for a used one last spring purchased from an equipment retailer. (I went there to get a castle machine, left with a shaper too.)
-Tigerstop $4100. This is rediculous, its worth about $2k at best.
-Whirlwind saw $751.01. Thats not a bad price. Wrong style for me, but I'd pay it if it had the blade on the left.
-5x8 face frame table. $1877. These are spendy new, usually not worth much used, especially the smaller ones.
-Delta table saw with the worthless uni-fence $1375. I bought the same saw this past summer from a private party for $900.

The economy apparently needs to get worse, then there will be some really good deals out there.

[Peter Quinn]

I hear your pain Karl. I hate online auctions, not really a fan of the in person kind either. Unless it works out in my favor, then I'm thrilled.

And I sympathize with unhappy Joe too. Why just last week my boss bought a new Griggio panel saw for the door shop where I work, and now I'll never have to walk down stairs to the cabinet shop to use their's, so I'll never see my friends there again. No more waiting in line for the one panel saw, drinking coffee, hanging out. No more dragging hundreds of passage door parts and panels down stairs on a rolling cart then back up again to shape. AND I'm gong to have to learn a whole new set of controls! The nerve of that nasty old boss, he even had us shut down production in Friday to clear a spot for the saw and help move it into place! I mean no real work for 6 hours on a Friday! And to boot he bought a 20" terminus head jointer at the same time, held the vendor over a barrel while the economy is slow, so now I won't have to jump through hoops to flatten panel material for 2'8" and 3'0" doors. Where is the challenge in that?

Now that evil SOB is talking about adding a second big SAC production shaper to replace the 5HP one we use for coping to speed production and give a better panel raising option. I love fiddling with that cranky old beat up powermatic that takes hours to set up and has to be stopped and rechecked every 20 panels or so. I need those breaks. Is he trying to work me to death? Yup, I feel Joe's pain.;)

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I am bidding hotly on this:

Man I will look sooooOOOooOOOo slick riding that.

[Karl Brogger]

Link didn't work.

Nevermind, had to cut and paste the address. Anyone one would look good riding that!
http://www.k-bid.com/ColinsVintageRecords&Comics/307.JPG

[Chris Padilla]

Chris

11-21 for the west coast, 11-23 for colorado, 11-26 for New England. 54/39 up front,and be done with it.;)

Just kidding bro'. Snap up those cassettes. Shimano is pretty ruthless about dropping a line completely when a new line comes out. That's what caused me to go Campy years ago. ( That Dura Ace bottom bracket required 2 separate, newly designed, spline tools for installation!)

The cyclocross boys,and girls, eat cassettes for breakfast. Get 'em while you can.

For my measly 140 miles of more or less flat MTB commuting 5 days/week, I tend to use the 15-tooth sprocket quite a bit with my 44 tooth large chainring (the other two chainrings are NEVER used). From the various cassettes I've picked up, I run 12-13-14-15-16-17-don't care what is on the 3-sprocket spider. I had an 11-tooth for a little while but it about killed me and I switched back.

Yeah, lottsa folks are converting over to 10-speeds cassettes so they are dumping their 9s for pretty cheap so I snap up a few here and there for usually south of $20.

Are you back on the bike, Mike?? My boss is going to ride one leg of the Tour of California before they close it off in order to reach the top of the mountain to possibly see Lance finish there (rumors are he may be going for KOM). I may tag along with him although it has been a while since I did any serious climbing. Those two unused chainrings of mine WILL BE used for that!! :D

[Karl Brogger]

Holy cows! Another shop goes belly up. On the auction that I'm watching: Striebig panel saw, a 5x12 faceframe table, a Whirlwind pop up saw, and a Powermatic model 72 table saw.

We'll see where the prices go. Some shops have work, some don't. Its really wierd how scattered the work is. I currently have zero work, and no real prospects for anything good untill after the first of the year.

Spend it while I got it!!!!

k-bid . com


(http://www.k-bid.com/Current.htm)