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Zahid Naqvi
10-27-2008, 11:48 AM
I gues most of you know by now that I have been trying to learn how to carve. I think I have enough gouges to get me started on some beginner level projects to get some practice. I still don't have any sharpening or honing options.

Please enlighten me with options I have for this. I have noticed that a few select vendors are now selling the "Chris Pye" signature slip stones for honing. Craftsman studios has them at 40% off. I have to order a couple of water stones as well so I was thinking about adding a few slip stones or what not to accomodate honing for the carving tools as well.

So what do you think I need to maintain carving tools.

Robert Rozaieski
10-27-2008, 12:27 PM
I use a soft and hard Arkansas slip (in addition to my regular bench stones) to shape the bevel and a strop charged with honing compound to polish and maintain. I don't know if I would recommend waterstone slips as I would think that they would easily lose their shape being as soft as waterstones are. Flattening a flat waterstone is easy but reshaping a curved slip I would imaging to be a challenge.

I don't use power strops or hones but a lot of carvers like them. I don't do enough carving to warrant a dedicated setup like some of those that are available. The slips and manual strop have worked fine for as infrequently as I carve.

A good way to strop would be to make a honing board. It's basically just a positive and negative of each of your carving tools that you rub honing compound into. There's instructions for a simple one here:

http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/articles/Honing-Board.php

To date, I've used my flat strop for outside bevels and small dowels rubbed with honing compound to polish inside bevels. I have not made a honing board yet, but I intend to....someday :D.

randall rosenthal
10-27-2008, 1:12 PM
i use a cotton wheel and various grits down to very very fine jewlers rouge. the thing with wheels is that they bend to the tool....not the other way round. once you get the knack it is so easy as to be effortless and you can make, and more importantly keep, tools as sharp as is humanly possible.

Mike Henderson
10-27-2008, 1:18 PM
I use a wheel on my lathe to power hone. It's a piece of MDF with leather glued around the rim. I use that green honing compound to charge the leather. I only "grind" when the edge is really damaged, such as when I drop a tool on the concrete.

You need a fast, easy way to keep your tools sharp so you can spend time carving. Also, you need to hone often - whenever you think your tool is not cutting properly.

If you can't sharpen, you can't carve.

Mike

[A while back, someone posted about sending carving tools back to the manufacturer to be sharpened. That's absurd. You MUST be able to sharpen your own tools - and you must do it often.]

Zahid Naqvi
10-27-2008, 2:58 PM
I think the Chris Pye slips (http://www.robcosman.ca/tools_sharpening.php)are all Arkansas stones. The one thing I like about them is the fact that all four sides of the stones have profiles and as such the same slip can be used on multiple gouges. I can probably hone the outside bevel of all gouges on a leather honing wheel and a handheld strop, do I need slip stones for the inner bevel. Chris Pyes strongly recommends a 5-10 degree secondary bevel on the inside.

randall rosenthal
10-27-2008, 6:45 PM
mike is exactly right..if you cant sharpen you cant carve.....if i use a tool for five minutes i re-sharpen it. it takes maybe 10 seconds. that way it stays super sharp. the thing i like about cotton is its soft enough to get both sides of the shallow gouges which i use most often. the last thing i do is hit the side of the wheel for a second. the clean wheel takes off the microscopic residue and takes off those last few molecules.....thats my theory.....and im sticking to it.

william f brown
04-23-2009, 12:12 PM
Randall,

I was doing a search to learn more about thebest way to sharpen carving tools. I like what you wrote and it seemed to be comon sensical, but I could not put your entire method together from the bits and pieces.
You wrote....

"mike is exactly right..if you cant sharpen you cant carve.....if i use a tool for five minutes i re-sharpen it. it takes maybe 10 seconds. that way it stays super sharp. the thing i like about cotton is its soft enough to get both sides of the shallow gouges which i use most often. the last thing i do is hit the side of the wheel for a second. the clean wheel takes off the microscopic residue and takes off those last few molecules.....thats my theory.....and im sticking to it. "

This is an older post, but it helped me.

Would you be wiling to share your carving tool sharpening methods?

What is the source for the cotton wheel and other items that you use?

How do you sharpen your V-tool? Lora Ireland's "sharpening board" looks like a good way to go - but the cotton wheel honing others mention seems so fast.

Hope this is not too much to ask at once!


Thanks very much,

Bill in NC

Mike Henderson
04-23-2009, 12:23 PM
I'm not Randall but I'll post a link (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/SharpeningDisk.htm)to the way I sharpen. It requires you have a lathe or rig up something to turn the honing disk.

I think Randall's technique is similar but may use a different type of disk.

Mike

David Keller NC
04-23-2009, 1:59 PM
Zahid - What follows is just my opinion based on about 5 or 6 years of carving, and a couple of years of formal instruction. That doesn't mean I've mastered it (sharpening or carving) - I consider myself very much and "intermediate", but I have had the chance to make a number of mistakes and learn from them.

A couple of things I'd recommend not to do. I'd recommend against power stropping/honing of any kind to start with. While it's a very popular method, it takes skill to do well, and many beginners find it exceptionally easy to round over a bevel on a carving tool with a power honing set-up. It can also lead to an ever-steepening bevel on the edge, and at some point, the bevel will get so steep that it's very difficult to guide the tool and to get it to cut. It can always be re-ground, of course, but many beginners don't know what to look for in this situation, and it can be frustrating.

The second technique I'd recommend against is hollow-grinding on a power grinder, followed by stropping the edge (i.e., the "Tormek System"). There's nothing wrong with grinding to restore a chipped or mis-shapen edge, of course, but it should be followed by hand-honing on a coarse stone to remove all trace of the hollow grind. The reason for this is that a hollow bevel will tend to pull the tool deeper into the wood, and makes getting a clean exit at the end of the stroke difficult. There's good reason that Pfiels and other carving tools aren't hollow ground, and it's not just an artifact of the the industrial large-diameter grinding wheels and belts that they employ. I do, by the way, have a Tormek, and I use it to grind carving tools - but I follow this up with hand-honing on a 220 grit waterstone, followed by 1000 grit, 4000 grit, and stropping.

OK - so to answer your question about the inside of your tools. I use, and recommend the diamond hones that DMT sells. The nice thing about these are that they're not too expensive, they will never lose their shape, and they cut very, very quickly, so establishing an inner bevel is very easy when you need to. I personally follow these up with the elcheapo waterstone slip set from Woodcraft (both 4000 and 8000 grits). They are indeed soft, so some care in using them is necessary.

However, I find that I can re-shape these as needed very quickly on wet-dry sandpaper stuck to a granite surface plate, so their softness doesn't bother me - and they cut faster than most other stone types.

That said, I know lots of carvers that much prefer arkansas oil-stones for their tools because of their hardness. They are willing to give up a little speed in honing for less maintenance/replacement of their stones.

Finally, almost every carver I've ever met keeps their tool's edge with stropping, with honing/grinding only a very occasional procedure when the tool's bevel needs re-shaping or they've nicked an edge. In my case, I use a leather strop glued to a piece of mahogany, and charged with honing compound. One of the reasons I don't recommend power honing, especially for beginners, is that this "manual" set-up is lightning fast - it takes about 3 to 4 strokes to restore an edge to well beyond razor sharp, and there's little risk of rounding the bevel (and subsequently having to grind or hone it out).

As a footnote, I'm not sure how much $$$ the Chris Pye-branded stones are, but in all likelyhood they came from one of 2 suppliers in Arkansas if they're natural stones. One of these suppliers is Dan's Whetstone Company, and their prices are quite low for small carving slips (and they have a lot of geometries) - they might be worth checking out before you buy.

george wilson
04-26-2009, 9:16 AM
I agree with David,which is unusual since he seems to never agree with me :). I like the ceramic slip stones for touching up the inside of V tools and gouges. I never power strop. Mike has probably developed enough finesse to make it work for him.I like to not remove any more metal than I have to,to keep the tools from wearing out.

David Keller NC
04-26-2009, 1:12 PM
"I agree with David,which is unusual since he seems to never agree with me"

Yeah, but the point is disagreeing without being disagreeable - something both of us have no doubt had some experience with (on other forums). ;)

randall rosenthal
04-27-2009, 8:41 PM
well...i can only speak for myself. i'm basically lazy (and often disagreeable) so i look for the easiest method. i think they all work and when i was a carpenter i was known to sharpen a chisel with wet dry sandpaper taped on a window and any lube that was handy. (margarine, motor oil, WD40) it worked.

what i am trying to accomplish is have the most sharp for the least effort. i agree that it takes awhile and some "feel" to get it right. but once you do it is effortless and the tool stays razor plus. the key is the easier it is the more willing you will be to do it while you are working.

i dont use V-tools so i cant help there.......mostly fish tails and other gouges. mostly bent.

cotton wheels for bench grinders are a common and varied product....mines about an inch wide by six. there is a special "rake" for when it gets too loaded with gunk.

Faust M. Ruggiero
04-29-2009, 6:21 PM
Hi Gents,
I have been carving for almost 30 years and probably tried every sharpening and honing method anyone ever mentioned. The truth is, they all work if you have the diligence to practice and endure. The final goal is a sharp, polished edge free of any quick shoulder and strong enough to support the forces you and the wood will apply. Frequent honing will keep the tool sharp but will also begin building a shoulder. That will require a bit of resharpening but this is part of the craft. No method is best for everyone.
Personally, I use a bit of everything. I may carefully grind a tool to help create a special shape. I needed a left hand skewed #7 gouge recently to fit a particular shape on a rope carving I am doing around a cherry dining table. To grind the basic shape and remove some excess metal, I used a grinder with a pink wheel and some finesse. I avoid hollow grinding also. It weakens the cutting edge. I stopped grinding long before I reached the cutting edge. I sharpened the edge on hand stones using a series of diamond stones and finished on fine ceramic stones. I have wonderful oil stones but opt to avoid them merely because I sometimes get oil on my hands and transfer it to the wood - just me being sloppy!!
Then I buffed the sharpened edge on a leather wheel mounted in my drill press (it works well in a lathe also) using gray compound. The paper wheel that Mike talks about also works well. I finished on a hard yellow sewn cotton wheel (close rows of stitching make the wheel hard) dressed with white compound. I also have wool felt wheels that come in hard and medium. They work well and heat up quicker. Remember, buffing compound works with the heat created in the buffing process. There are even wool felt wheels designed to buff the inside edge of V tools. I've bought everything in my quest for the "ultimate method". I've learned that money doesn't sharpen chisels.
I buff lightly so as not to prematurely create a shoulder behind the cutting edge. A shoulder makes the tool too hard to push and can cause fracture. I also keep a soft wheel on the buffer to lightly touch up the inside edges of gouges. Sometimes, I hold an old saw blade (facing slightly down) to create a new soft edge on the wheel. Then I let the fibers get into the inside of my parting tools and #11 veiners. Basically, honing with a buffing wheel involves alternately touching the bevel side then the inside of the tool. You are still rolling microscopic wire edges back and forth until they disappear. A freshly sharpened tool takes a bit of extra buffing but touching up after that is merely a touch or two on each side.
I stopped using the green compound because my supplier told me it was made using a cancer causing compound. He claims the only safe green compound is actually the "greasy white" that has been dyed.
By the way, buffing both sides of a tool automatically creates a bevel on the inside is gouges. It is slight but present.
Go experiment and learn. Pick a method and perfect your technique with that method. You will wear away a bit of metal but that is the price of learning. Just be careful if you buff. I know it sounds dumb to say but keep the edge pointing with the rotation of the wheel. Grind against - buff with.
fmr

george wilson
05-10-2009, 6:08 PM
You can get ceramic slip stones. I have had some for years. Brownell's gunsmith supply sells them. I THINK I saw some in a Woodcraft supply store.

I find it very easy to reshape,or make special shapes out of arkansas slipstones on my cubic zirconia belts,but you can't touch ceramic with the belts. Shows how much harder they are.

When honing the inside edge on a "V" parting tool,and you don't want the little tit forming in the apex,ceramic keeps its nice sharp triangular edges much better.