Caution about front load washers

[Brian Elfert]

A bit of caution about front load washers. Mine is on the second floor and shakes pretty good when used.

Well, I put clothes in the laundry room sink to soak yesterday and also started a load of laundry. A little while later I heard the sound of rain, but I assumed it was coming from outdoors. I eventually went to check on the noise and found water pouring out of the ceiling. The drain had come loose from the laundry room sink!

If you have a front loading washer not on concrete be sure to check any threaded plumbing connections for tightness regularly as they can vibrate apart.

I was able to mop up all the water before it warped the wood floor in the kitchen and the sheetrock is fine, but I might have minor staining.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

Thanks for the tip Brian!

we also have a front-loader, and I spent a lot of time levelling it best I could so it wouldn't shake so much. It never really shakes more than our top loader did, so it is possible....

[Greg Cole]

Our front loader doesn't shake at all, even when the teen ager does a "load" of towels (ya know, like every towel in the house). The bloody washer weighs at least as much as my 3hp cabinet saw.:eek:

[Brian Elfert]

I just assumed shaking is a given with front end loaders. I guess I should make sure mine is level.

My front end loader is a second gen Maytag Neptune purchased in 2001. I have heard the newer front end loaders vibrate less due to anti vibration stuff built in.

[Jim Becker]

We have very little shaking with our LG SteamWasher and we also use the special spin mode for wood floors, designed to reduce vibration when used in residential first and second floor installations. I have a load of towels "spinning as we speak" and it's very reasonable in terms of vibration and noise. It should be noted that front loaders always need to be properly leveled and balanced with installation to reduce vibration, too.

[Lucas Bittick]

Friend of mine came home to a flooded hallway-- and the washing machine hose had tooth marks in it. Apparently, the dog thought it was entertaining to play tug of war with the washing machine and pulled the hose out of the drain assembly.

I don't envy the cleanup job you have...

[Brian Elfert]

I don't envy the cleanup job you have...

Cleanup is all done except reinstalling the light fixture in the kitchen and reinstalling the sink/countertop and cabinet in the laundry room. I pulled out the sink and cabinet to make sure everything dried out good.

The only lasting damage may be a slight stain on the ceiling in the kitchen around the light fixture. This is the second leak there as a valve broke when the house was three weeks old.

I have a nice drain pan under the washer, but not sure it would too much if a hose bursts.

[Mike Henderson]

This is a bit off topic, but I'll comment that I don't like front loading washers. The reason is that you have two choices. Either you can leave them low, which means you have a hard time getting down to get the clothes out of the washer, or you put a pedestal under the washer which means that the top is too high to use as a folding table.

I bought a top loading because after I take the clothes out of the dryer, I can use the top of the washer and dryer to fold things. And it's easier for me to get the clothes out of a top loader.

Mike

[I'm not crazy about getting the clothes out of the dryer, either, but I don't have any other choices.]

[Jim Becker]

I forgot to mention earlier that we invested the extra $250 for an electronic valve system for our new second floor laundry room. Any leak or any broken hose, and the water is automatically cut off. In fact, if the washer is "off" electrically, the water valves are automatically shut down.

[Matt Meiser]

My parents' front load shakes a lot more than the old one. About a year ago I read a newspaper article that claimed Consumer Reports reviewed top loaders and because of the new standards for water use they basically don't work. The only one that did was design-wise basically a front load tipped on its back.

I've been thinking about that electronic system Jim has after two overflows from the washer. At a minimum I'm putting in new quarter turn valves for fast shutoff and tray under the washer that drains to the floor drain in the laundry room.

[Brian Elfert]

This is a bit off topic, but I'll comment that I don't like front loading washers. The reason is that you have two choices. Either you can leave them low, which means you have a hard time getting down to get the clothes out of the washer, or you put a pedestal under the washer which means that the top is too high to use as a folding table.


The Maytag Neptune has a unique design that makes the door much higher than most front loaders. No pedestal required (or available). I am pretty sure the Neptune has been discontinued now.

I've seen that most other front loaders are really low for loading/unloading.

[Mike Cutler]

Brian

Our Asco front loader has been on the second floor of our house for about 13-14 years.
When I put it there I built it up on a platform with a 2" lip all the way around. and two, 2" shower drains that exit the house through a 2" drain line that is concealed in it's own gutter downspout.
It wasn't a code requirement when I put it in, but I understand that it is now.

I "tested it "with the supply hoses theday I put it in, so I know it can take the full flow of the supply water.

Put a drain under your washer.


Mike Henderson

Build the platform yourself, that way you can set it a comfortable height. The ones that sell do exactly what you said, Too high.
I don't know about CA, but here in CT the most compelling reason for a front loader is that it only puts 1/3 the amount of water into my septic system.
We don't have city water, or sewers. Septic tank and leaching field.

[Jim Becker]

I had a few PMs asking about the auto valve system that was installed in our new second floor laundry. It's an IntelliFlow and information is available at:

http://www.watts.com/pro/divisions/watersafety_flowcontrol/learnabout/learnabout_intelliflow.asp

There likely are other brands/models, too.

[Matt Meiser]

Jim, did you get the water sensor for the floor with yours? This would have saved us two huge messes. Our problem was a stuck valve in the washer causing an overflow. Without the sensor, one of these wouldn't have done us any good. But with--LOML is ready to buy right now.

[Dean Karavite]

Hello All,

As a newbie with so many questions being answered on EZ, allow me to offer my services in return. I actually acquired a lot of expertise in this area when I built a first floor laundry for my wife. The true motivation here? Getting the laundry out of the basement left the entire basement to me as my shop! The cost was high, but worth it for both of us in the long run.

Leak detection and prevention was my #1 fear and I really studied it. Washing machine hose bursts are the #2 reason for home insurance claims. #1 is fridge ice maker plumbing. There are problems with pans or pans with drains. First, just a pan will not hold a major leak. If a washer hose bursts it can put out 500 gallons an hour! Think about that! A pan with a drain adds other problems. For example, every drain has to have a trap to prevent sewer gases from coming back into the house. A drain under a washer will rarely (hopefully never) be used, so it will dry out resulting in sewer gas. Remembering to dump some water down the drain once a month or two is not a really good option. One option is to run a straight pipe from that pan to the outside of the house - no trap, but may or may not be up to code and you need a little trap door of some type to keep bugs from coming in. However, even if you have a drain system that works, do you want a situation with a leak and 500 gallons an hour is pouring down a drain? No way, you want to detect the leak then stop it.

I opted for no drain system whatsoever, but I still have redundancy. First, I have a system called "BurstBuster" See: http://www.aymcdonald.com/burstbuster.cfm It consists of a set of electrically controlled valves tied to a leak sensor. You can also manually shot off the valves when you are not washing to keep the pressure off the hoses (or when you go on vacation, away for the weekend). Originally I used the Watts Intelliflow, but it was cheap junk and died after a year. I also have the best hoses in the business, "Floodchek" at http://www.floodchek.com/ There is another similar named brand of hoses that have some type of internal shut off, but these have no gimmick are just plain awesome in build. No other hose compares. Sadly, most hoses sold in stores or with machines are not up to long term pressure, even the steel braided hoses. So, with the BurstBuster and these hoses, I have a very reliable multi layered system that should prevent leaks.

Okay, as for vibration there is a lot to this as well. There are anti vibration pads, but nothing tops a solid floor to start with. A good test is this: stand where your washer will be and sort of jump up and down without leaving your feet. Do things nearby shake or rattle? That's a problem. One approach might be to reinforce the floor with a thick sheet of plywood (1 or more inches) spanning a few joists. Glue and screw it down then build your washing area around it. For a second floor install you almost never have access to the joists, but for a first floor over a basement you can sister and bridge the joists to be less flexible. I did all this on my first floor install and it really helped. No house was built to handle the forces of these machines. Realize I built in my washer dryer into a cabinet/counter that I built myself. In addition, some washers have a "hanging" suspension that will vibrate less, but not be as durable in the long run. Some of these machines need to be leveled and adjusted to truly balance them. It make take many tries, but once you get it, that's it (until you move them around).

I'm telling you, for what we paid for our washer and dryer I could have had every hand tool and EZ system I could dream of! We have Miele, these German units that are insane. The washer spins up to 1600 RPM, has a built in water heater (up to 165 degrees) and, get this, has a software update port. How did we exist all these years without that? :) The dryer switches direction every minute or so to prevent wrinkles. I learned quite a bit about all this on the www.gardenweb.com forum. These people take laundry seriously. I'm not kidding, some are over the top and make the most tool obsessed of us look tame. Some of them even figured out how to "crack the firmware" of my washer so you can turbo up the spin speed to 1800 rpm! Of course this voids the warranty and can ruin the "mother board" on a $2000 washer! One more story. At the dealer for all these high end Euro machines one of the salesman told me he collected washing machines! He has something like 14 of these things in his house, spanning the history of laundry technology!!!!

Sorry for rambling on here, but please don't hesitate to respond or IM me if you have any questions about this. I learned more than any man should know about all this and was exposed to a world of fanatics nobody should see, but as a result I have a house that doesn't shake when the wash is on, will stay dry and my t-shirts look pretty darn white to boot.

[Brian Elfert]

Brian

I "tested it "with the supply hoses theday I put it in, so I know it can take the full flow of the supply water.

Put a drain under your washer.


I have a drain pan under my washer. The issue is the vibration from the front loader caused the drain on the laundry room sink next to the washer to come loose when full of water.

You expect leaks from washers. You don't normally expect leaks from sinks.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, did you get the water sensor for the floor with yours?

It's actually required to use it with the LG SteamWasher. Otherwise, the circuitry (without the sensor) false positives sometime during the wash cycle and that's a bummer...so yes, we have one!

[Greg Just]

another issue with the front loaders is mold - at least with the older models. I have a 4 year old Kenmore that retains water in the big gasket that the door closes against. Over time, mold has formed and it is difficult to get rid of. Apparently there are replacement gaskets that drain better, but I have not checked them out yet. Anyone else have this problem?

[Brian Elfert]

I have just a tiny bit of mold with my Maytag Neptune. Nothing I worry about. The first generation Neptune had lots of mold problems and I seem to recall a class action suit.

[Lucas Bittick]

another issue with the front loaders is mold - at least with the older models. I have a 4 year old Kenmore that retains water in the big gasket that the door closes against. Over time, mold has formed and it is difficult to get rid of. Apparently there are replacement gaskets that drain better, but I have not checked them out yet. Anyone else have this problem?

Our LG has a self clean cycle that is ran with bleach. LG instructions make it very clear that this is to be done regularly depending on use. Maybe the Maytag has such a cycle/schedule?

We also leave the door open a crack a for a few hours following a wash. But, we don't have kids, and I imagine with kiddos running around it would be different.