Attaching an Extra Disk to a DVR?

[Pat Germain]

The thread about Wood Works no longer being broadcast on DIY has got me motivated to archive the shows I have recorded on my DVR.

I've been doing some reading about putting DVR programs onto DVD. There are a number of interfaces and methods for decoding the files and transferring them to a computer. From what I gather, by the time you get all the software and mess with it, you're better off just buying a DVD recorder. I saw this opinion repeated many times on many forums and online articles.

What I didn't see in any forum, but I did see in my DVR manual, is that it's possible to attach another hard drive to the DVR using a USB interface. My DVR is from Dish Network. They charge a one-time fee of about $40.00 to allow an extra drive attached to the DVR. I think they have to send a command to the DVR which formats the extra disk and makes it compatible. The DVR format is unique. Thus, it wouldn't be possible to connect the extra disk to a computer and access the program files. (Well, I suppose there might be a crack program for this somewhere.)

I'm trying to decide if I want to buy a DVD recorder or just get a really big disk drive and attach it to my DVR. I'm thinking the advantage of an extra disk would be that it could record shows in Hi-Def. I don't think a typical DVD recorder can record in Hi-Def. Considering how cheap disk drives are these days, I could probably add an entire terabyte of storage! And shows would always be readily accessible.

I was also thinking the advantave of recording onto DVDs would be the programs would be permanent. Yet, based on Chris' post, this may not be the case.

I don't suppose anyone here on SMC has attached an extra drive to his DVR?

[Greg Cuetara]

Pat,
One thing that I read about getting attaching a hard drive to a dish network dvr is that you have to download the programs you want to watch from the hard drive to the dvr then you can watch them...I don't think you can watch them directly off the hard drive etc.. It seems like a good backup idea but IMHO what I realized is that it would be much cheaper in the end to just buy a dvd recorder then you can backup the shows or other non high def shows onto the dvd and save the space on the dvr. If you really look around you can pick up a dvd recorder for less than a few hundred. To pay the fee to dish and then buy a good hard drive will be at least the same.
Greg

[Frank Hagan]

If you are watching the programs in "standard definition", you can always use the "analog hole" to record the programs with a DVD recorder (or onto your computer with a TV tuner card like a Hauppauge PVR-350 card).

The "analog hole" is the signal sent through composite or component cables to your TV. Hook those cables to the DVD recorder or TV tuner card, and you're ready to record.

The quality is a step down from what's on the disk in digital format, but it looks as good as the standard definition signal to me. Some people record HD content this way, and they say its no worse than watching HD films on a standard definition TV.

[Pat Germain]

I did some more reading about attaching an extra disk to my DVR. Although some people initially reported you have to move programs from the extra disk to the DVR for viewing, this is actually not the case. Apparently, the information initally put out by Dish Network last year was erroneous. Several people reported they have this setup and they can watch programs directly from the extra disk and it works great.

I've also read once you pay the fee to Dish Network, you can use as many extra disks as you like. Thus, you can have one for movies, one for woodworking shows, (or two for woodworking shows :)) etc. Although only one disk at a time can be connected, you can swap them out. (Daisy-chaining of disks in not supported).

I also learned when the DVR was first realeased, the largest drive it could recognize was 750GB. Supposedly, a firmware upgrade was planned to allow recognizing larger disks. I'll have to call Dish and ask them about that.

I'll probably take a look at DVD recorders and see what's available at different price lines. Although the current woodworking shows aren't in hi-def, I do like to record other HD programming. That's why I'm leaning toward an extra disk.

[Randal Stevenson]

Look in your DVR's owners manual, and see if you see ANY reference to the Gnu public license. (GPL, LGPL, etc)

I am sure not all, but several of these things run Linux. That means you could use a Linux pc (if a standard format Linux format), to mount the drive and read/burn the information/video's/data, off to a backup disc.

[Jim Becker]

One thing to remember about DVRs is that while many of them "look alike", the individual content providers (cable company/sat company) can and do have custom software loads that will include or exclude capabilities. Even though there may be a physical USB port or other feature on the box, it may not "work" with the particular software image used by the provider. I'm mentioning this as a general comment on the topic since some folks viewing may not be working with Dish, but another content provided.

[Matt Meiser]

I wouldn't use an external hard drive to archive stuff you want to keep for two reasons:
1) If the DVR fails they are going to just send you a new or refurb one. There's a chance it won't be the exact same model and it may render the data your disks useless.
2) Hard drive failures seem to be very frequent these days. I've lost an average of 1 per year over the past 5 years. Just this past week Dell replaced the one in my laptop. I don't know if its declining quality or the fact that they are packing more and more into smalller and smaller packages. I run backups on my PCs to protect against this. You most likely would have no way to back up that drive.

I would buy the DVD recorder. The DVD's aren't archival but would be more reliable than the hard drive IMHO.

[Pat Germain]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

Yes, my DVR has a Linux operation system. However, even if I connected an extra disk to it, a computer running Linux wouldn't be able to access the program files. They are encrypted. Based on what I'm reading, a lot of people have tried to access the program files from a Linux computer to no avail.

I did see one example that worked. That guy used a program to break the DVR files and convert them.

I hear you about failing disks, Matt. That's one reason why I haven't yet made my decision. Maybe if I'm lucky, someone will give me a DVD recorder for Christmas. Then I an buy an extra disk and have the best of both worlds. :)

[Jerome Hanby]

I haven't used the Dish DVR, but I do have a DirecTivo. It has a feature called save to VCR. I ran a set of AV cables from the vcr output on the DTivo around the room to a video capture card on my PC. That's kind of a "mid-tech" approach, but the end result doesn't require any DVR hacking, and you have the ecording in a format that you can manipulate any way you wish. I record a bunch of stuff to the PC, then load up Dr Divx to batch convert them all...

I've tried some hacks supposed to allow me to move programs from the DTivo to the PC over my Ethernet Network, but had mixed results.

I'm pretty sure there is not as large a base of Dish DVR users, so I suspect the availability of those hacks might be limited. Since you say that it is linux based, if you can figure out how to Telnet into the box, you may be able to make some headway. The data may be encrypted, but the DVR has to be able to access it...

[Denny Rice]

I wouldn't use an external hard drive to archive stuff you want to keep for two reasons:
1) If the DVR fails they are going to just send you a new or refurb one. There's a chance it won't be the exact same model and it may render the data your disks useless.
2) Hard drive failures seem to be very frequent these days. I've lost an average of 1 per year over the past 5 years. Just this past week Dell replaced the one in my laptop. I don't know if its declining quality or the fact that they are packing more and more into smalller and smaller packages. I run backups on my PCs to protect against this. You most likely would have no way to back up that drive.

I would buy the DVD recorder. The DVD's aren't archival but would be more reliable than the hard drive IMHO.


I agree with Matt 100%.....I am a subscriber of Dish Network with a DVR and I love mine, but the only problem is Dish Network has had to replace my DVR 2 times in 3years because of a hard drive failure. All the programs I had saved on the DVR..........GONE. Both times I had to re-record the programs I had lost. Sis months ago I finially spent 300.00 on a quality DVD recorder, now I DVR the program and record the program to DVD.

[Neal Clayton]

the only feasible way to accomplish this is...

http://www.nextcomwireless.com/R5000/home.htm

there used to be a second service that was similar, but i think they shut down a few years ago.

basically, you send them your sat box, they add another interface circuit to it that routes the output of the sat box to a firewire or USB port. firewire port > pc and you can record all you like.

looks like they sell DIY kits with the circuit board included but it's about 350 bucks.

that gets you halfway home, the next problem is most sat providers are going to mpeg4 especially for the HD channels. dvd = mpeg1 or mpeg2, so you'd have to take the mpeg4 stream you recorded and convert it. in the case of HD you'd have to do this anyways since DVDs don't support HD resolution.

on a new dual core modern computer this would be a process of a few hours, on an old single cpu computer it could be a process of a day or two, depending on the cpu in question.

can it be done? sure, i used to do it to save HD before bluray came out, but it's time consuming at best.