Remind me again why I do this?

[Toney Robertson]

I have turned several pieces lately that I thought were pretty nice so I decided to reapply to the Indiana Artisan Development Program.

I got to thinking that on the way to Indy I pass two of what has to be the wealthiest areas in the state. So I got on the net and looked up some art galleries in those areas. Loaded up some of my best "artsy" pieces and thought I would try to make some headway into marketing my pieces.

I went into a half of dozen galleries and not only did I not get my foot in the door, the door was slammed shut on it. Everyone liked/loved the pieces but I was told things like "Wood does not sell" "We are getting rid of what wood we have." and "$50.00 is about the price point that things are selling right now."

I know the economy is bad but these areas have million dollar homes. Athletes, the Colts owner and the like live around here and $50.00 is the price point? Few of the things I have EVER done were IMO worth less than $50.00.

One gallery had some nice turned stuff. Two other ones (not to denigrate the turner but...) had pieces with tear out, tool marks and large sanding lines. I am thinking that maybe that is why they are not selling?

I do not know what I am going to do now. More galleries I guess. While I enjoy turning if I can not sell the stuff to make a little money then that definitely puts a damper on turning more pieces. You can only give so much away for wedding gifts, etc.

Sorry, Rant over.

Have any of you ever been associated with an artist co-op? I went into two of them and found out you pay a monthly fee of $75.00 - $80.00 and then have to work 2-3 days a month. This does not seem to be a good deal to me unless you sell multiple pieces each month. I know galleries keep 30-50% but in a co-op you could go 6 months without selling anything and be out $480.00.

Toney

[Allen Neighbors]

Toney, I can feel your pain. I've seen some things on the shelf at expensive gift shops that have tear out, and sanding marks. In fact, I saw pieces at SWAT last year in the instant Gallery, by a well-known turner, the sanding scratches were appalling to me. It's not surprising that some galleries can't sell what they've taken in. I believe it's because the person(s) in charge don't know what to look for, in wooden items.
Also, I don't attempt to get mine into galleries, because I don't want to give up 30-40 percent of my money. So I just make a few craft shows every year. I say 'few' because it takes a while to turn enough stock. But I do well at craft shows... in fact have paid for all trips, SWAT, and both of my lathes selling woodturnings. Now it's just gravy. I would suggest that you contact small city chambers of commerce, and locate a few good craft shows, and give it a try.
Oh yes, you do it because it's fun!!! Sometimes not, but most of the time it is. Woodturning is actually hours and hours of good fun, interspersed with a few moments of stark terror, when you launch a piece, or get a really nasty catch that you're afraid to look at. :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Toney,

Turn because you enjoy it. Try to make enough at it to pay for the fun.

I've had several people pressure me to turn some very specific projects for them. If I find it would be interesting, I do it. For a friend, I'll volunteer to do it. Right now, I'm turning some wheels for a fellow Creeker who made a pull toy for his 2 year old granddaughter. I enjoy it and grandpa's need to stick together. I'm turning a gear shift knob for a Porche owned by a customer who I've worked with for 25 years.

I turned a pen for one of my DILs and it shipped this week to TX. She called a little while ago..."Dad....I loved the pen.....so did a lot of other people...I have a favor to ask....a friend wonders if you'd turn a more masculine for her husband?" So..I have my first commissioned turning... a pen...

Remember one thing.....art is subjective.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder....what's stunning to me may be dried bone ugly to you.......

Art galleries are in it to make money. No profit = Out of business.... They typically know what will sell in their area and what won't and for how much. Don't take it personal. It's no reflection on your ability...it is what it is.....and Art is subjective....

Turn because you enjoy it.

[Pete Jordan]

For the groupies!

[Gary Herrmann]

If you're doing this for a living, I can see why you'd get stressed out. But if it's a hobby, enjoy the ride. Selling something is nice, but it isn't really necessary, IMHO. But I'm a relative newb.

I've sold a number of pens since I started turning. Enough to pay for two mini lathes. I don't know why. It's not even November and I've got 6 Christmas commissions so far. People ask where I got a pen, and the conversation goes from there. People have talked to me about web sites, etc etc. Not interested. It's a hobby. I don't want to feel obligated to go downstairs and churn out 3 pens every night after work. I go to the shop to get away from work.

The way I look at it is, if I sell a few pens - great. It kinda pays for the hobby some. I guess it takes some time away from other projects, but it doesn't take too long to knock out a pen. And for whatever reason, people seem to like them.

Bowls, hollow forms etc are art. Everyone has an opinion. And they can be quick to voice it. Turn what pleases you. You'll find that you'll meet other people that are pleased by it as well. Do it well and long enough, and they'll find you.

Fwiw, I go to the St. Louis Art Fair every year. I like walking around and seeing what people can make. I like talking to the artists. Every year a buddy of mine and I make a night of it. Smoke a cigar, have a few drinks and see what people can create.

Every year there are at least half a dozen woodworkers displaying furniture, turnings, puzzles etc. This year there was a woman who made hand carved wooden purses. I thought they were very well done.

There is a market for everything. It's where you live or somewhere else. People are a fickle bunch. "Wood doesn't sell." Wait 6 months and see. Or tell that to the guy that I saw buy a $5000 turning at the art fair. Or the guy I know that sold someone a pen for $400.

For some reason, there are people that are dismissive of wood as artistic material. The heck with them. We get geeked up by a beautiful chunk of burl, or a board with interesting grain it. Ever heard someone get excited about a lump of clay? Granted, I'm not a potter...

[Curt Fuller]

Money for nothing, chicks for free!

Seriously Toney, the term 'starving artist' covers the majority of artists in any medium. I've never quite figured out why some artist's work becomes collectible but most artwork never makes it to that level. It surely doesn't mean it isn't quality work though. I just think the average person doesn't have a lot of room in their budget for art and an awful lot of people that can afford the luxury of buying artwork wouldn't know art if it walked up and kicked them in the butt. So like a few others have said, do it and keep doing it for the love of the art and maybe someday you'll get lucky.

[Jon Lanier]

I agree with Ken, try to pay for your fun. If you are going for making a living. You might want to try a different route.

[Scott Hubl]

My brother had a dinner party last week with his inlaws, the MIL brings some homemade candies and sets them out on a Wooden Dish.
I just recently set my brother up with my old jet mini lathe stand tools and a couple chucks, so he is a newb at woodturning.

Next morning he is cleaning up and eats the last piece of candy on the dish, thinking it looks a lil dry he takes it down to his shop to oil it up, as he turns it over he see's "Osolnik Originals" The name kinda rings a bell and he calls me about it I was like you GOT to be KIDDING me!

He emailed me pics of it, Yep its an original Rude piece.

MIL got it so many years ago shes not even sure where/when it was.

He posted pics of it on another forum.

Now I WANT one, I search Ebay, yup 2 are for sale, one at $175.00 I think, (it did not sell) but was later relisted at $75.00 with a buy it now and I MISSED it.:mad:

The other has been up a few times at $900.00 and is still listed.

You just never know what will sell and when and for how much.

I looked at all the lathes out there from Stubby Robust Oneway Serious a few others and the lathe I ended up buying, the 3520B.

I turn as a Hobby and yes I could have bought pretty much any of the lathes out there but decided the 3520B had all I needed/wanted in a lathe for a hobby.

IF I sell something fine if not fine too, I'm not really looking to make a living turning, just relax doing it.

I just couldn't justify 2-3 times the cost of some of the other lathes for a Hobby, hard as I tried the lesser costing lathe had what I was looking for in a lathe and basically spent the saved amount and more on tooling.

If you are looking to sell to pay for this hobby or become a Pro, make SURE every piece you offer "for sale" is Museum Quality not even one sanding scratch visable not a speck of tearout ect. Anything less is a "second" and Not sold.

You will have alot less pieces laying around taking up room because you will either make it Perfect or scrap it.(Burn it.) Or Rework it until it IS Perfect.

Once you have done that and shown those perfect pieces, (winning awards.) you write a book on turning your way then a Video, Now the galleries come to you. You Hope.

Until then, Turn, Learn, Enjoy, Perfect your craft.:cool:

[Rasmus Petersen]

Whuhuhhuuuuu im with Pete..... ill be arriving in the states shortly... i you have groupies i want in :-) hehehehehe (lots of irony and sarcasm)

nicely put scott

[Toney Robertson]

Toney,

Turn because you enjoy it. Try to make enough at it to pay for the fun.

I've had several people pressure me to turn some very specific projects for them. If I find it would be interesting, I do it. For a friend, I'll volunteer to do it. Right now, I'm turning some wheels for a fellow Creeker who made a pull toy for his 2 year old granddaughter. I enjoy it and grandpa's need to stick together. I'm turning a gear shift knob for a Porche owned by a customer who I've worked with for 25 years.

I turned a pen for one of my DILs and it shipped this week to TX. She called a little while ago..."Dad....I loved the pen.....so did a lot of other people...I have a favor to ask....a friend wonders if you'd turn a more masculine for her husband?" So..I have my first commissioned turning... a pen...

Remember one thing.....art is subjective.....beauty is in the eye of the beholder....what's stunning to me may be dried bone ugly to you.......

Art galleries are in it to make money. No profit = Out of business.... They typically know what will sell in their area and what won't and for how much. Don't take it personal. It's no reflection on your ability...it is what it is.....and Art is subjective....

Turn because you enjoy it.

Ken,

I do enjoy turning, really I enjoy it a lot but one of the main reasons I started doing this was to make some extras $$$.

I am/was a contractor in an area that I believe is worse than the national average for home construction. So, I needed something to supplement my income during the immediate economic problems and beyond since I think this area will be depressed for the next decade or more.

I evaluated my skill set and I have always enjoyed and had somewhat of an aptitude for working with wood. I particularly enjoyed turning when I was younger so I decided to go for that. I purchased my Nova 3000 and set off on this journey.

I did not take any comments from the gallery owners personally, hopefully they know their market but it is very frustrating that I could find NO interest in wood at all in the areas/galleries that I visited. If I was only in it for a hobby then so be it but since I was looking to make some money this situation is troubling.

I will check out other areas. I have two brothers that live in the Chicago area, maybe they can be some help.

Maybe I should not have assumed that there was a market for turning beyond $50.00 items. Of course I know what happens when you assume. :D

Thanks for the reply

Toney

[Hilel Salomon]

Toney,

It's easy enough to tell you to do things w/out thought of paying for all of your equipment. Not everyone can afford to do that, and I completely understand your concerns. In my case, my talent is so limited, that I only expect to derive pleasure out of my turnings. I also find lathe work to be therapeutic almost equal to exercise. I'm always looking for friends and acquaintances who will enjoy my mediocre efforts and won't worry about scratch marks or lousy finishing techniques. Giving such gifts complements my own therapy. But I'm not an artist. Unfortunately, for every artist who makes a fortune, there are scores, probably hundreds who barely-some don't even get to that point-make a living from their creative talents. Even a look at the galleries in the Louisville and Richmond shows revealed, I think, the fact that some very talented turners were asking and barely getting peanuts for their efforts, while better known turners were getting very substantial sums for average products.
Generally, people who habit art galleries are looking for paintings and sculptures and don't realize how much artistic talent comes from working with wood as a medium. Hopefully that will change, but until it does, craft shows are probably the way to go. I know that a few museums now are beginning to include, and some even feature, turnings. Hang in there.
Hilel.

[scott schmidt grasshopper]

I feel your pain too tony. I just got started in the art/ craft market and even did a trip to way of new mexico to look about. I have always been unwilling to give the art galleries 50% either. in NM I finally found two galleries offering wood. in one the prices were high to me( normal for AG's) and the work good second one had terrible peices and the prices were outragish! I talked with them and they wanted some ofmy work but since it was NM only with turquoise, I had never done inlay so still have not made them anything but . the offering was alot of cash and they would buy the peice, short end,, galleries want only the art they like, try craft fairs. look at some of the reveiws online and then get into the juried shows. be aware it takes time and high quality photos to get in get a good booth set up and track your market. I make bowls for use and they range from 10 bucks to 300, 50% of sales are 10/50$, 30% 55/120$,20%125+
oh and nothing sales in my local area which is farmin and logging myrtlewood is too common ( go figure) I sold one $15 peice my first show and then 400 the second ??
and yes I still turn for theropy mostly

[Paul Engle]

Toney, as far as the co-op's go thats pretty much standard , the one in Bonners Ferry Idaho is about the same and I opted out , you will find that the eye of the beholder is about it. It is the numbers you need , when I sold insurance ,we knew you had to talk to 50 people to get one presentation , 20 presentations got 1-3 sales. my guess is wood products are further up the numbers than life insurance ( of course when one gets better etc the numbers come down ) Don't give up , enjoy the Good Lords bounty, He didn't give you / us talent for nothing. Not to brag .... I donate a lot of mine for fund raisers ... to help others less fortunate ..... very satisfying indeed . And who knows , could be one day that one with all the money and no collection will fall in love with your work and you'll be busier than a one legged person at a barn dance....:D

[Jeff Nicol]

Toney, I started turning roughly 5 years ago, I have always been a woodworker of some sort and had not touched much of a lathe since the mid to late 70's. I had a shopsmith that was just a rudimentary lathe and not much control and a lot of slop in the spindle. So when my dad and I started a small wood working shop we were able to buy a simple cheap lathe from a local discount tool store. I still have it.

But as I was a full time sheetmetal worker also I worked a lot of nights and weekends turning and making plenty of shavings and dust collecting type turnings. But as things would have it I tore both rotator cuffs in my shoulders and after useless surgeries that have limited my range of motion and strength the lathe has become my favorite type of therapy! I worked for 25 years as a sheetmetal man and now I am retired because of the shoulders. So now I try to turn a little every day and some days are better than others. I started out listing miniatures on e-bay because they were easy on the shoulders and I just love making them. I have sold hundreds of them so far from $6 to $60 each. If they are special and catch thea few buyers eye you get a bidding war and the sky is the limit!

I also am lucky that about the time I started to get good at turning and my shoulders went to heck. My dear cousin Jane decided it was time to open the art gallery that she alway wanted! So she called me and my stuff is in there I pay the 35% and sell a few things here and there but I am not getting rich. So as everyone says do it for yourself and enjoy each moment you are creating another personal masterpiece! I also have some pieces in a small consignment shop that does pretty well.

Here is the simple website I started just to show what I have done:

http://www.woodennicol.com/

Good luck and sorry for being so long winded!

Jeff

[Toney Robertson]

Jeff,

Thanks for the encouragement.

I went to your website and it is very nice. Some really outstanding looking pieces. Do you sell from your site? If you do I did not see that as an option.

Was you site hard to set up? Is it costly in terms of money and time to maintain?

One other suggestion I might have is on your slideshows it would be helpful if you would put the kind of wood and the size of the piece. I could identify most of the wood but most people would be clueless. For what it is worth.

Thanks,

Toney

[Evan Galipeau]

My plan is to make stuff mostly for my self. However when I have more stuff then I can give away I hope to find other artists in other mediums to trade with. It seems they are in the same boat as woodworkers. While selling things is great I would probably be more happy trading a getting other fine art in return. We also should not expect other people to support our work if we don't support theirs.

[john taliaferro]

talk to bernie . he got a sales manger, he will be busy for months. john t

[Robert McGowen]

Just pick one:



goal

  [gohl]
–noun 1. the result or achievement toward which effort is directed; aim; end.

hope

  [hohp]
noun, verb, hoped, hop⋅ing. –noun 1. the feeling that what is wanted can be had or that events will turn out for the best