whats the answer?

[Matt Ocel]

Sittin at the local pub last night havin the weeks end cold one, talkin smack, the question came up -

If its 0 degrees out today, and its going to be twice as cold tommorrow,
What will the temp be?

We had allatta answers. 0, -1, -1/2, absolute zero, stupid question, pretty cold, etc.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Uh..Oh! Another math question........this one will get interesting.....how many ways can you multiply 2 times 0?


I will tell you it will be too cold for snow shoeing or elk hunting so I'm just staying in camp next to the wood stove in our tent and feed the stove.

[Joe Pelonio]

Just my opinion here and I'm not really into math, but . . .

Half of 0 is still 0, but if we convert to C we get a number that can be divided, -17.77777777...C

So the answer is -35.555555555C or when we convert back to F it will be -31.9999999999F which we can round to -32F.

[JohnT Fitzgerald]

I chalk this one up with claims that something is "4 times less" than something else. so if something costs $100, would that be -$300? (100 - (4x100)) ? I run into this at work - people have no concept of math, but like numbers that sound impressive...

Btw - if you define "cold" as the freezing point (32 degF), then 0 degF is "-32 cold", so twice as cold would be -32degF. And if you want to argue, I'd be more than happy to do so - over a few cold ones ;)

[Tom Veatch]

Since there is no standard that allows the direct measurement of "cold" the question must be referenced to "heat". Since "cold" is the absence of heat like "dark" is the absence on "light", "twice as cold" could be interpreted "half as hot".

Since the absolute temperature is the measure of heat content, "half as hot" would mean the absolute temperature would be reduced to half the present value. The problem statement didn't identify what scale was used for the 0° measurement. There are 4 temperature scales in common use.

If the 0° was on the Fahrenheit scale the absolute temperature would be 459.67° on the Rankine scale. If the 0° was on the Celsius scale, the absolute temperature would be 273.15° on the Kelvin scale.

Therefore, if the outside temperature was 0°C, twice as cold would be -136.575°C. If the temperature were 0°F, twice as cold would be -229.835°F.

If the termperature were 0° on either the Rankine or Kelvin scales, then the heat content would already be zero and half of zero is still zero.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Tom...You left out the part about all molecular activity stopping at 0 degrees K.
:rolleyes:

[Randal Stevenson]

Tom...You left out the part about all molecular activity stopping at 0 degrees K.
:rolleyes:


He started to get to it, but as you said, all molecular activity (typing) stopped.:p

[Don Carter]

Matt:
I have two questions:
(1) How many cold ones?;)
(2) Was the name of the pub, "Jeopardy" ?;)
:)

[David DeCristoforo]

This one's easy. When it's zero it's cold. When it's twice as cold as that it's "really" cold. Stephen Wright asked "If you're driving your car at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights... Will they do anything?"

[Bill Arnold]

On the other hand, how cold is it when it's -40 (40 below)?

:confused:

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Stephen Wright asked "If you're driving your car at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights... Will they do anything?"

Are you driving your car forward or in reverse?:confused:

[Ben Rafael]

Are you driving your car forward or in reverse?:confused:

Sideways...of course.

[Tom Veatch]

Tom...You left out the part about all molecular activity stopping at 0 degrees K.
:rolleyes:

Brings up an interesting point.

There is a limit to how cold something can be. As you mentioned, at absolute zero, traditional physics holds that all molecular activity ceases. I seem to remember reading somewhere that some researchers are challenging that theory. Be that as it may, since temperature is effectively a measure of molecular motion, the bottom limit of temperature is taken to be absolute zero. Is there also a limit to maximum temperature? Not the maximum temperature found in the universe (probably the interior temperature of a thermonuclear reaction) but the absolute maximum that could occur.

[Tom Veatch]

This one's easy. When it's zero it's cold. When it's twice as cold as that it's "really" cold. Stephen Wright asked "If you're driving your car at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights... Will they do anything?"


I suspect that it would depend on your point of view. If you're in the car, you'd still measure the speed of the photons exiting the headlights as travelling at the speed of light relative to you so my guess is that you'd notice nothing different. If you were standing beside the road as the car went by, I'd guess that it would appear that the headlights weren't on.

[Tom Veatch]

On the other hand, how cold is it when it's -40 (40 below)?

:confused:


Brass monkeys come to mind.

[Dennis Peacock]

Are you driving your car forward or in reverse?:confused:

ROFL!!!! For some strange reason....I just KNEW that was coming. :)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Brings up an interesting point.

There is a limit to how cold something can be. As you mentioned, at absolute zero, traditional physics holds that all molecular activity ceases. I seem to remember reading somewhere that some researchers are challenging that theory. Be that as it may, since temperature is effectively a measure of molecular motion, the bottom limit of temperature is taken to be absolute zero. Is there also a limit to maximum temperature? Not the maximum temperature found in the universe (probably the interior temperature of a thermonuclear reaction) but the absolute maximum that could occur.

If you could cause the molecular activity to reverse direction , could you have a resultant temperature less than absolute zero? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Tom Veatch]

If you could cause the molecular activity to reverse direction , could you have a resultant temperature less than absolute zero? Inquiring minds want to know.

It's a shame it doesn't. Bet you could get some interesting effects if it were so.

Temperature, although effectively a measure/indicator of molecular activity is more directly related to the thermal energy stored within a body. Thermal energy is related to the kinetic energy of the molecular movement. Kinetic energy is a function of the square of the velocity so the direction of movement is immaterial. Kind of like saying a rifle fired to the north has x muzzle energy while the same rifle fired to the south has -x muzzle energy.

[Ben Franz]

The BIG bottle of Ibuprofen.....HURRY....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hey Matt!

Is this the way the discussion went in your local pub Friday night?:rolleyes:

[Denny Rice]

Brings up an interesting point.

There is a limit to how cold something can be. As you mentioned, at absolute zero, traditional physics holds that all molecular activity ceases. I seem to remember reading somewhere that some researchers are challenging that theory. Be that as it may, since temperature is effectively a measure of molecular motion, the bottom limit of temperature is taken to be absolute zero. Is there also a limit to maximum temperature? Not the maximum temperature found in the universe (probably the interior temperature of a thermonuclear reaction) but the absolute maximum that could occur.

Tom,

You read my mind!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL

[Eric Larsen]

Yes, the headlights will cause a red or a blue shift, depending on the position of the observer.

If the observer is in the car, he or she is in trouble due to infinite mass, which I suppose is slightly worse than being Roseanne Barr...


This one's easy. When it's zero it's cold. When it's twice as cold as that it's "really" cold. Stephen Wright asked "If you're driving your car at the speed of light and you turn on your headlights... Will they do anything?"

[Doug Shepard]

...

If its 0 degrees out today, and its going to be twice as cold tommorrow,
What will the temp be?
...


It's math questions like this that make me dang glad I dont live in Minnesota. Zero degrees already in Oct.?? Brrrr...

[Ben Rafael]

Yes, the headlights will cause a red or a blue shift, depending on the position of the observer.

If the observer is in the car, he or she is in trouble due to infinite mass, which I suppose is slightly worse than being Roseanne Barr...

I disagree, being her is far worse.

[Matt Ocel]

Hey Matt!

Is this the way the discussion went in your local pub Friday night?:rolleyes:


A let me see.

Yes. exactly how it went.:D

With my wife sitting next to me just shaking her head at us.

[Wally Lloyd]

Do you know what a brass monkey is?

[Matt Ocel]

It means its cold enough to freeze a part of the anatomy off. Usually in jan or feb it gets down to brass monkey degrees here in farmington mn:D

[Andy Hoyt]

I challenge the entire proposition put forth by the OP because he posits that O° is cold.

That's just barely chilly and not even worthy of long johns.

[Bill Arnold]

Brass monkeys come to mind.
No doubt that, in part is true. But, now back to my original question. ;)

[Brent Smith]

If its 0 degrees out today, and its going to be twice as cold tommorrow,
What will the temp be?


Well Matt, up here we call it balmy :cool:.

Now, if you want to talk brass monkeys, just stand around outside a bar smoking a cigarette up here in February :).

[Bonnie Campbell]

Not much of a post, but in case someone didn't know.... Brass Monkey: A metal stand that formerly held cannon balls on sailing ships.

History lesson over, it's still math time lol

[Al Willits]

"""""""
On the other hand, how cold is it when it's -40 (40 below)?
""""""""

Here in Minn its time to get a sweater out and start thinking of winterizing the boat.

High tomm is going to be about 40, took the day off to go crappie fishing...I'll probably wear a sweater then too... :)

Al

[Matt Ocel]

If its 0 degrees out today, and its going to be twice as cold tommorrow,
What will the temp be?


Well Matt, up here we call it balmy :cool:.

Now, if you want to talk brass monkeys, just stand around outside a bar smoking a cigarette up here in February :).


Brent -
Come on, I think Monteal is about 24 feet North of Farmington.LOL

I'll bet you a Molson that I can take a picture of my outside thermometer showing a lower temp than you can this winter.;)

[Bill Arnold]

Not much of a post, but in case someone didn't know.... Brass Monkey: A metal stand that formerly held cannon balls on sailing ships.

History lesson over, it's still math time lol
On the other hand: Check This (http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.asp) Or This (http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/brass_monkey_cold_enough_to_freeze_the_balls_off_a/) Or This (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107.htm) Or This (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/cold%20enough%20to%20freeze%20the%20balls%20off%20 a%20brass%20monkey.html)

... back to the math lesson ...

:rolleyes: And, sheesh! Nobody has an answer to the -40 thingie! :D

[Brent Smith]

Brent -
Come on, I think Monteal is about 24 feet North of Farmington.LOL

I'll bet you a Molson that I can take a picture of my outside thermometer showing a lower temp than you can this winter.;)

Yea, but you don't have the beautiful St. Lawrence River pulling all that North Atlantic air down on ya, do ya LOL. We'll have to keep tabs on the thermometers this winter Matt.......by the way, I drink Labatt Blue :).

[Matt Ocel]

Yea, but you don't have the beautiful St. Lawrence River pulling all that North Atlantic air down on ya, do ya LOL. We'll have to keep tabs on the thermometers this winter Matt.......by the way, I drink Labatt Blue :).


LaBatt Blue - Your On.:)

[Tom Veatch]

On the other hand: Check This (http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/brass.asp) Or This (http://www.wordorigins.org/index.php/brass_monkey_cold_enough_to_freeze_the_balls_off_a/) Or This (http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq107.htm) Or This (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/cold%20enough%20to%20freeze%20the%20balls%20off%20 a%20brass%20monkey.html)

... back to the math lesson ...

:rolleyes: And, sheesh! Nobody has an answer to the -40 thingie! :D

-40 is the intersection point of the Celsius and Fahrenheit temperature scales. When it's -40°C its also -40°F. The only point on either scale where it's redundant to specify whether it's degrees Celsius or degrees Fahrenheit, they are both the same temperature.

[Bill Arnold]

-40 is the intersection point of the Celsius and Fahrenheit temperature scales. When it's -40°C its also -40°F. The only point on either scale where it's redundant to specify whether it's degrees Celsius or degrees Fahrenheit, they are both the same temperature.
You win the Grand Prize! :)

[Chuck Saunders]

And a well deserving recipient at that.

[Doug Shepard]

After consulting all my old math textbooks, I finally got this figgered out.

Let o be the October monthly temperature mean
Let m be the Minnesota coefficient of frigidity
Let g be the temperature gradient
Then it's a simple matter of integration

g=2
∫omdg = OMG It's freakin cold in Minnesota
g=1

The Little Big Man Theorem

[Tom Wilson66]

Cold enough to freeze your nose hair.

[Rod Sheridan]

Sheesh!

All the great craft beers we have in Canada and you're wagering a Molson or LaBatt product????

This recession must be worse than I thought!

Regards, Rod.

[Brent Smith]

Sheesh!

All the great craft beers we have in Canada and you're wagering a Molson or LaBatt product????

This recession must be worse than I thought!

Regards, Rod.

Geez Rod.......you keep talking about all those great beers and next thing you know the export market will be grabbing them all and we'll be back to drinking Dow!!! :)

[Chris Padilla]

After consulting all my old math textbooks, I finally got this figgered out.

Let o be the October monthly temperature mean
Let m be the Minnesota coefficient of frigidity
Let g be the temperature gradient
Then it's a simple matter of integration

g=2
∫omdg = OMG It's freakin cold in Minnesota
g=1

The Little Big Man Theorem


LOL! That is actually correct! Nice job, Doug! :D

[Doug Shepard]

... Nice job, Doug! :D

Oops - Forgettin to cite my sources agin.:o

...The Little Big Man Theorem

From the prestigious Journal of Applied Mathematical Obfuscation - 1937, Nyuknyuk U. - Doctors Howard, Fein, Howard, et. al.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Doug,

The fine doctors....first names Larry, Curly and Moe?:rolleyes: