Another safety reminder . . . Oily rags

[Brian D Anderson]

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20081025/NEWS01/810250350

This one affects me a bit as one of my employee's lived in that apartment building. He is currently homeless and will probably lose most of his belongings to water and smoke damage.

I was actually surprised to wake up and find out that it was linseed oil rags that caused the fire.

Just a reminder . . .

-Brian

[Jim Becker]

It only takes mere minutes for oily rages to ignite...or sometimes hours and then wham! Thanks for the reminder, Brian.

[John Thompson]

When I first heard about oily rags many years ago.. I found it hard to believe. So.. I wadded some up and put them in a space between vertical fence slats outside my shop in the hot Georgia sun. What I found is that what I had been told will burn a fence down if you weren't keeping a close watch on them pronto to extinquish the blaze after ignition.

I guess what I heard was true after all... :D

Sarge..

[Jason Perrott]

When I was a kid, my parents were using Watco on our deck. They left a pile of rags laying on the deck overnight, and in the morning there was a 12" hole burned through the deck. Lots of head scratching and half hour later they finally read the warning on the can and realized what happened. I think one of the initial ideas was that a meteor shot through the deck:eek:

Jason

[John Schreiber]

When I first heard about oily rags many years ago.. I found it hard to believe. So.. I wadded some up and put them in a space between vertical fence slats outside my shop in the hot Georgia sun. What I found is that what I had been told will burn a fence down if you weren't keeping a close watch on them pronto to extinguish the blaze after ignition.

I guess what I heard was true after all... :D

Sarge..
Sarge. There's nothing like learning from experience. I had wondered if it were really true too, but I think I'll learn from your experience instead of setting my own fence on fire.

I did start a fire with a cup sized container of epoxy though. Luckily, it was on a concrete surface and the only thing damaged was the brush and the cup.

[glenn bradley]

I have a metal "bucket" with a tight fitting lid ($15 at Lowe's). When using such products, I put a couple inches of water into the bucket and toss my waste in the bucket as I go. Between efforts, I cover the bucket tightly. When I'm done, I spread the waste to dry and then dispose of it when safe.

[Randal Stevenson]

I have one of those cans you keep in the garage for oil rags (in professional shops), I would like another one, for the woodworking shop.

But living in an older area, I have another thing you don't see much anymore. A solar powered clothes dryer. I take the rags out there, when done, and pin them up on the line to air dry. Spread out and not bundled it helps them evaporate, and if they would ignite, they are no where near the house, just over green lawn (not California brush).

Had a few people wonder why I never removed the poles until a neighbor asked about it.

[Clifford Mescher]

When I was a kid, my parents were using Watco on our deck. They left a pile of rags laying on the deck overnight, and in the morning there was a 12" hole burned through the deck. Lots of head scratching and half hour later they finally read the warning on the can and realized what happened. I think one of the initial ideas was that a meteor shot through the deck:eek:

Jason

That gave me a chuckle. Clifford

[John Thompson]

Fortunately John.. I monitored just in case what I had been told were true and caught the ignition shortly after it started. It did scorch the top of two vertical slats but that is an easy fix. The main reason for monitor is the fence butts up to the side of my house and I could not dismiss the fact that it could happen.

At this point I know it can happen and will. I use a sealed metal container as mentioned at this point after spreading them out at the far end of my drive-way to let some of the vapors release. No problem since but it is somethng that needs to passed on to others as "who would have thunk it" without being informed in advance.

Sarge..

[John Ricci]

This thread is an excellent safety reminder. I keep all of my used rags in a metal trash receptacle which itself has a metal liner that is sitting next to the can in the pic. It may not be the absolute safest solution but in 10 years I've never had a rag fire and if I did I believe this thing would contain it. My .02Cdn.

J.R.

[Andy Pratt]

I use only small rags (.25 square foot at the most) and usually drape them over the edges of the trash can to let them dry, then when they are bone dry (couple days) I'll push them in with the rest of the trash. Am I being dumb doing this?

[Anthony Whitesell]

The safest thing to do with rags is to hang them outside. Period. Away from anything combustible and with enough air circulation to keep them cool enough not to ignite.

Either this past May or May '07, according to the paper there was a fire in Exeter, NH caused by linseed or tung oil rags. The homeowner had put them in one of those red oily rags disposal containers. The rags and can got so hot, either the paint on the can or something near the can ignited.

I don't trust the metals or anything else. Maybe in a bucket of water, but the rags have to dry sometime.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with Anthony...my oily rags go on a nail stuck in a retaining wall away from the shop where they can blow in the breeze. Once the oil is fully cured, they can then be disposed of in the regular trash.

[John Schreiber]

During a finishing project, I usually put the used rags in a bucket of water with soap in it. After I'm done, I usually spread them out on the bushes outside to dry. After the oil has cured, there's no problem putting them in the trash.

[Peter Quadarella]

The rags are a real nuisance for me. I can't really leave them lying around outside to dry as sometimes I forget them and my toddlers find them :(. I have to be very careful about what I do with them. I have to admit that I have burned them before, which I know is not eco friendly, but it was just a couple. I'm still trying to work out a permanent solution.

[Andy Pratt]

I'm just going to start leaving them (spread out) in my outdoor firepit instead of the trash. That way they dry out or get rained on, and if by some miracle they catch fire on their own it's just in the fireplace anyway. I don't have kids though, I'm sure that does pose a problem.

[Craig Hemsath]

I agree with Anthony...my oily rags go on a nail stuck in a retaining wall away from the shop where they can blow in the breeze. Once the oil is fully cured, they can then be disposed of in the regular trash.

I'm paranoid about the oily rag burning. Mine get thrown in the middle of my concrete driveway (15' from anything burnable) until they're dry.

[Nancy Laird]

When I was in high school, the house behind mine burned from a fire started in the garage by oily rags dropped into a garbage can - from the homeowner's changing the oil! Destroyed his garage and the car in it, and the fire got up into the attic of the home and caused mucho smoke and water damage. It was quite a rude awakening at 3:00 a.m.!

We have xeroscaping in our yard - which means lots and lots of rocks and no grass. When we use stain and produce oily rags, they get spread across the rocks with a few holding the rag down until it is completely dry, and they stay there until garbage day, when they get dumped into the trash.

[Jim Becker]

I'm paranoid about the oily rag burning. Mine get thrown in the middle of my concrete driveway (15' from anything burnable) until they're dry.

That works, but by putting mine on a nail/spike, they can't blow away in the wind and end up cluttering up the beautiful scenery. I use soft paper towels and even filled with oil, they can "take off" with a good brisk breeze!

[Peter Quadarella]

Jim, putting them on a nail high up out of reach of my kids is a good idea. However, what about the danger of my wooden fence cathing fire? Am I getting too paranoid now? I really don't want to build a 10' concrete pillar with a nail at the top to hold rags :D.

[Toney Robertson]

Jim, putting them on a nail high up out of reach of my kids is a good idea. However, what about the danger of my wooden fence cathing fire? Am I getting too paranoid now? I really don't want to build a 10' concrete pillar with a nail at the top to hold rags :D.

Yea, maybe a little too paranoid but when it comes to this issue I don't think you are in the minority.

Oily rags are a danger if they are wadded up or if there are several in a heap but if they are spread out to dry then IMO there is little danger.

Toney

[Doug Shepard]

I just weave them through the cyclone fence outside the GaShop. Couple days later when they're stiff, they get tossed in the trash.

[Tony Bilello]

Ask me how I know.

If you are there just prior to ignition, your eyes will start to irritate and burn and you will smell someting smoldering.

[Craig Hemsath]

That works, but by putting mine on a nail/spike, they can't blow away in the wind and end up cluttering up the beautiful scenery. I use soft paper towels and even filled with oil, they can "take off" with a good brisk breeze!

My house sits down low with lots of trees, hardly ever any wind.

[Fyrman Dave]

Most of you are on the right track with how to minimize your risk of fire as a result of oily rags. One of the key things you can do is to allow the rags ro release the heat. As most of you are doing, this is best done by spreading them out. I recommend washing them in soapy water first. Never assume that the soapy water is enough - it isn't. You must still spread them to dry and release heat.
The information below is from NFPA 921 Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations
The spontaneous combustion process most often occurs in organic materials such as animal and vegetable solids and oils.
Self heating and self ignition of materials such as motor or lubricating oils does not occur.
Some materials subject to spontaneous ignition are:
Material -Tendency
Charcoal - High
Fish meal - high
Linseed rags - High
Hay - Moderate
Manure - Moderate
Wool wastes - Moderate
Sawdust - Possible
Grain - Low

In short, always read the label. If there are any precautions regarding disposal of rags, be careful. Follow the label instructions.
It is always disheartening to investigate one of these type fires and have to tell the homeowner what the cause was. They almost always knew that it could happen, but got careless, forgetful or lazy.
Be safe.
Dave

[Rob Russell]

I use only small rags (.25 square foot at the most) and usually drape them over the edges of the trash can to let them dry, then when they are bone dry (couple days) I'll push them in with the rest of the trash. Am I being dumb doing this?

I didn't see a response to your question.

What you're doing sounds safe to me. The key would be that the rags need to be fully spread out when you are drying them. That way you can't get heat buildup in the rags. Once fully dry, they are no longer the fire hazard because the heat is generated as the oil dries.

[Randal Stevenson]

I didn't see a response to your question.

What you're doing sounds safe to me. The key would be that the rags need to be fully spread out when you are drying them. That way you can't get heat buildup in the rags. Once fully dry, they are no longer the fire hazard because the heat is generated as the oil dries.


I didn't answer, because I believe we don't have enough information. Your better off if you can get air on BOTH sides of the rags. But, does your trash can have a trash bag in it at the time (melting possibility), does it have trash in it at the time, etc.

[Jacob Reverb]

When I was in high school, the house behind mine burned from a fire started in the garage by oily rags dropped into a garbage can - from the homeowner's changing the oil!

Nancy, Are you saying this happened with motor oil?

I had thought it would only happen with drying/oxidizing oils such as linseed or tung ... now you've got me concerned, as I keep a rag saturated with motor oil in a can in my shop for wiping down machines before leaving them idle (to protect against dew/rust).

[John Ricci]

now you've got me concerned, as I keep a rag saturated with motor oil in a can in my shop for wiping down machines before leaving them idle (to protect against dew/rust).

Jacob, used motor oil contains a degree of gasoline that gets by the piston rings while the engine runs...if you change your own oil, take a whiff of the old stuff some time. I suppose it could start a fire but I can't see new, clean oil doing it:confused:

J.R.

[Zahid Naqvi]

How about if we just burn the rags in a metal can :confused:

[Wayne Cannon]

As many times as I've heard about oily rags igniting and use care to wet, spread, and air dry them; while wiping off the excess after oiling my deck, I was amazed that a towel burst into flame within only a couple of minutes when temporarily tossed to one side as I moved to wipe down a new section.

[Fyrman Dave]

Nancy, Are you saying this happened with motor oil?

I had thought it would only happen with drying/oxidizing oils such as linseed or tung ... now you've got me concerned, as I keep a rag saturated with motor oil in a can in my shop for wiping down machines before leaving them idle (to protect against dew/rust).



Jacob, used motor oil contains a degree of gasoline that gets by the piston rings while the engine runs...if you change your own oil, take a whiff of the old stuff some time. I suppose it could start a fire but I can't see new, clean oil doing it:confused:

Neither will self combust, they are both petroleum products. Read line 6 in post #25. That information came from NFPA 921 which is the fire investigator's "bible".

[Fyrman Dave]

As many times as I've heard about oily rags igniting and use care to wet, spread, and air dry them; while wiping off the excess after oiling my deck, I was amazed that a towel burst into flame within only a couple of minutes when temporarily tossed to one side as I moved to wipe down a new section.
Wayne,
I would be very interested in hearing as much info as you can give me regarding the material you were using, and the circumstances surounding that incident. By PM if you prefer.
Dave

[Nancy Laird]

Nancy, Are you saying this happened with motor oil?

I had thought it would only happen with drying/oxidizing oils such as linseed or tung ... now you've got me concerned, as I keep a rag saturated with motor oil in a can in my shop for wiping down machines before leaving them idle (to protect against dew/rust).

Yes, it happened with motor oil. Our neighbor was not a woodworker (he was an accountant (nothing against accountants) who was never ever out of a white shirt. I think he even changed the oil in that white shirt! He wouldn't have known which end of a crosscut saw to hold, much less how to use it.

[Steve Clardy]

I have racks on my finishing room walls to hold cabinet doors and such.

I hang all of my used stain rags on the racks for a couple of days, then pitch them in the shop wood stove.

[Wayne Cannon]

I'll post here so maybe someone else will be more cautious about using a drying oil on a deck in full sun.

In retrospect, I was asking for it. However, I consider myself pretty cautious, aware, and safety conscious -- including regarding wetting and spreading oily rags until they are dry and stiff. This was a situation accelerated by full sun and a hot, dark-colored deck.

I had spread Messmer's natural "U.V. Plus for Hardwoods" liberally on an Ipe deck in full sun and was wiping up the excess with terry-cloth bath-towel rags after letting it soak in for a bit. The deck was very hot (i.e., too hot to stand on in bare feet). I was kneeling on another towel as a pad and to keep from getting the oil all over myself as I crawled around. I tossed my current wiping towel to one side while I moved my pad towel and grabbed a drink of water. It was only a few minutes -- less than five -- when my wife noticed that the towel was smoking. The towel was too hot to handle as I tossed it over the railing onto the concrete driveway below. The towel was already charred and had holes burned in it and the deck wood showed minor signs of scorching.