Evil Porter Cable

[Gary Breckenridge]

I hear the evil Porter Cable is going to change from top of the line to mid or bottom of the line for sale in big box stores. That's kind of a shame. I own several Delta and Porter Cable tools. But then I thought about it. Porter Cable is owned by Black & Decker, symbol BDK. A complete line tool company will have a top, middle and economy (China) line of tools; they will also make tools and put anybody's name on them. I would like the Porter Cable name to be the top brand but that isn't the name of the company. I do hope they do not cheapen or phase out some of the better PC products. BDK needs to clearly establish which of its brands is top of the line and never change that by going for a quick buck.

BDK, an American company, in the last three years has earned $6.22, 6.79 and 8.08. They are expected to earn in the $5 range in 2009 and 2010. Their stock price has crashed with the rest of the market from over $90 to $44.98. It has lost half its value.

My hope is that BDK will stay in business making more tools in the USA. I also clearly want to know that Delta and either DeWalt or Porter Cable is the best quality and value. Its kind of the old "Fool me once...":cool:

[Douglas Brummett]

Been disgusted in quite a bit of depth already. Here is the most recent...

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=93207

[Jason Beam]

Gary,

You can have your wish. Just open your wallet. Quality costs. Local quality costs double.

[John Ricci]

Quality costs. Local quality costs double.

...and German quality seems to cost quadruple:D

J.R.

[Bruce Page]

I’ve been a Porter-Cable fan all of my life and have a full stable of their tools, including a 50 year old ¼” drill motor that still runs like a top. I will wait and see if their quality takes a nose dive and if it does I simply won’t buy from them. Until that time, I think it is unfair to be trashing their name in these posts.

[Rollie Meyers]

You can be sure that any Black & Decker product is garbage, the only good DeWalt tool was when they made Radial Arm Saws, Delta was already reduced to building garbage instead of building tools that one could pass on to other generations like they used to be, Porter-Cable did excell at building certain tools and B & D is going to do what they also excell at, transform a line of tools into trash.:mad:


The way things are going, Harbor Freight tools may become the "good" stuff.Sad...:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[Steve Nouis]

Evil no, dumb and greedy yes. Steve

[Bob Marino]

You can be sure that any Black & Decker product is garbage, the only good DeWalt tool was when they made Radial Arm Saws, Delta was already reduced to building garbage instead of building tools that one could pass on to other generations like they used to be, Porter-Cable did excell at building certain tools and B & D is going to do what they also excell at, transform a line of tools into trash.:mad:


The way things are going, Harbor Freight tools may become the "good" stuff.Sad...:mad::mad::mad::mad:


I bought the DEWALT TS when it came out some 8 years agao or so and thought that was a pretty high quality tool.

Bob

[John Keeton]

Evil no, dumb and greedy yes. Steve
Steve, I agree with the disappointment, but not the conclusion. Many of these threads express discontent with a publicly held company because of the sense of betrayal to its customer base.

However, the mentality of such a large company is much simpler. They have one purpose - to produce a profit for the owners (the stockholders.) If you have investments, you can probably appreciate that. I haven't, and doubt that many have, looked at each company held in my mutual funds to see which produces only a quality, high-end product. I want them to make money in an ethical fashion. That is why I own that stock. I wish I could afford to own only those companies that eaked out an existence remaining true to their customers, notwithstanding a less than glorious profit picture. My family needs won't permit that.

In this situation, the sad part of the equation is that as a society we have become complacent with mediocrity. B&D is simply marketing to that demographic. It isn't evil nor dumb. It is smart and serves their end purpose - profit. If it becomes fraudulent (i.e., an inferior product marketed as quality with a quality price), then it is greedy.

Americans have acquired a disposable mentality. Just look at the stores that have survived this downturn - they are the discount vendors.

This bodes poorly for those of us that desire quality and will pay for it. But, I don't think we can blame the companies. Society perhaps, western greed perhaps, conspicious consumption perhaps?? Probably many reasons, but I hate to see it taken out on the companies.

All of this does make one appreciate the few, the proud - companies like Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen, and many others whose names we see come up on the creek. I think the answer is to patronize those that aspire to the quality you seek, and that offer more than a profit driven business plan. Those companies are going by the wayside in droves and without our support, it won't be long before they will be a memory.

Having said that, I do appreciate these type of threads to the extent that they communicate to others the decline in quality of a company's products. I won't buy from them, but the market tells me that many will - and that is what they are counting on.

[Craig T. Smith]

To All, I am a relative newwby(10 years) and working man. All my life I wanted to work with wood but all I know is iron. So when I could I moved to woodworking. At entry level I had to go with price. As I grew in ability and intrest, I began to research into quality,origin avaiability etc. In my opinion the more ordinary people that buy from the"Box Stores " the more get hooked on woodworking and upgrade to quality and the more the quality tool makers produce.Which is good for all of us. I know I'll probably never buy the likes of Festool etc. but as woodworking popularity grows some may. Being "old school" I hate to see name brands loose the quality mindset, but some of theese threads are starting to sound Eletist and Snobby. Just some thoughts from the top of my head. Happy Woodworking, Craig

[Loren Hedahl]

I believe there is a good argument for providing tools in the lower price ranges.

For example, I have a friend who once owned a company that erected metal buildings. He used the cheapest 1/4 inch drills on the market at the time, that were made by B&D. The reasoning was that his crew never wore their drills out. But they dropped quite a few. For sheet metal work the lowest power B&D was plenty able.

Back then many of the tool companies made both a cheaper and more expensive lines on the same brand name. You could buy at top quality B&D drill, as well as a inexpensive one. The better one had all ball bearings, a commutator with many more segments and a larger amp rating.

I don't believe there is any need to worry. There will always be a company to fill the niche for high quality tools, same as anything else. Earlier in my life, Cadillac, Lincoln and Chrysler were top quality luxury cars. When they let their quality drop off, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and a host of others jumped in to fill that void. In woodworking power tools Festool and to some extent Bosch is filling the high end void. Just a sign of the times.

[Bob Marino]

Steve, I agree with the disappointment, but not the conclusion. Many of these threads express discontent with a publicly held company because of the sense of betrayal to its customer base.

However, the mentality of such a large company is much simpler. They have one purpose - to produce a profit for the owners (the stockholders.) If you have investments, you can probably appreciate that. I haven't, and doubt that many have, looked at each company held in my mutual funds to see which produces only a quality, high-end product. I want them to make money in an ethical fashion. That is why I own that stock. I wish I could afford to own only those companies that eaked out an existence remaining true to their customers, notwithstanding a less than glorious profit picture. My family needs won't permit that.

In this situation, the sad part of the equation is that as a society we have become complacent with mediocrity. B&D is simply marketing to that demographic. It isn't evil nor dumb. It is smart and serves their end purpose - profit. If it becomes fraudulent (i.e., an inferior product marketed as quality with a quality price), then it is greedy.

Americans have acquired a disposable mentality. Just look at the stores that have survived this downturn - they are the discount vendors.

This bodes poorly for those of us that desire quality and will pay for it. But, I don't think we can blame the companies. Society perhaps, western greed perhaps, conspicious consumption perhaps?? Probably many reasons, but I hate to see it taken out on the companies.

All of this does make one appreciate the few, the proud - companies like Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen, and many others whose names we see come up on the creek. I think the answer is to patronize those that aspire to the quality you seek, and that offer more than a profit driven business plan. Those companies are going by the wayside in droves and without our support, it won't be long before they will be a memory.

Having said that, I do appreciate these type of threads to the extent that they communicate to others the decline in quality of a company's products. I won't buy from them, but the market tells me that many will - and that is what they are counting on.

John,

I think you have (along with some others) stated it quite well, but my issue is that the company "bean counters" seemingly only look to the next quarter's profits, rather than long term profit and growth.

Bob

[Ted Shrader]

. . . I don't believe there is any need to worry. There will always be a company to fill the niche for high quality tools, same as anything else. Earlier in my life, Cadillac, Lincoln and Chrysler were top quality luxury cars. When they let their quality drop off, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and a host of others jumped in to fill that void. In woodworking power tools Festool and to some extent Bosch is filling the high end void. Just a sign of the times.Loren -

True enough, and believe that is what Gary was saying. But he desired some the top tool companies to remain (mostly) American. Given the global economy, parts are sourced from all over but the design, marketing, sales, assembly, etc. remain domestic.

Cutting costs and maximizing profits is a responsibility to shareholders, but when quality declines and the resultant revenue declines, where are the shareholders left then?


Ted

[Steve Nouis]

John,

I think you have (along with some others) stated it quite well, but my issue is that the company "bean counters" seemingly only look to the next quarter's profits, rather than long term profit and growth.

Bob
Thats right, they're using thier good name too make money right now. They'll be long gone with thier pockets full when thier name is shot. Steve

[Glenn Howard]

I wouldn't say there is anything evil about it. I know that people who have been loyal PC users find this disappointing. But the reality is, it wasn't good business sense for them to maintain multiple companies at the same price points/quality points.

For example, The Gap owns Old Navy, Gap, and Banana Republic. Three different stores at three different pricing points. They aren't competing with themselves. It wouldn't make sense.

It's the same thing in the case of PC. They had to make deliniations or phase out one or more companies altogether. Had DeWalt been relegated to the middle or bottom, there'd be posts with people complaining about that.

The bottom line is that when you're buying one of these tools, be it a newer, dumbed down PC, a DeWalt, or a Black & Decker, the quality of the tool is generally pretty obvious just by handling it. If anyone buys a dumbed down PC thinking it's going to be of the same quality of the older tools, shame on them for not doing the research and/or checking out the tool before buying. I know that sounds harsh, but someone who buys a tool intending to use it for any length of time, and will be making a living with it, generally doesn't buy tools as an impulse purchase.

Oh, and you can most likely thank the Nascar crowd for DeWalt having been pegged as the top tier.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

To All, I am a relative newwby(10 years) and working man. All my life I wanted to work with wood but all I know is iron. So when I could I moved to woodworking. At entry level I had to go with price. As I grew in ability and intrest, I began to research into quality,origin avaiability etc. In my opinion the more ordinary people that buy from the"Box Stores " the more get hooked on woodworking and upgrade to quality and the more the quality tool makers produce.Which is good for all of us. I know I'll probably never buy the likes of Festool etc. but as woodworking popularity grows some may. Being "old school" I hate to see name brands loose the quality mindset, but some of theese threads are starting to sound Eletist and Snobby. Just some thoughts from the top of my head. Happy Woodworking, Craig

Craig,

First, I don't agree with the OP that a company is evil when they decide to change the quality of the tools they offer the public. I do think they will lose some buyers and gain others.

Just because someone one wants to buy quality or bemoans the declining quality of products being offered by a company qualifies them as being "elitists or snobby" IMHO. I have some quality tools, I have some tools bought at the Borg and I have some bought at the "marts". Make sawdust with whatever you have and/or makes you happy.

[Dave Lehnert]

You just can't buy on name alone. Names are sold like a used car now days.
The old Porter Cable has be gone for some time. Sold to Black and Decker.

[John Nesmith]

I think most of the manufacturers have discovered that there is more money to be made by designing and marketing for people who use their power tools several times a year, rather than several times a day.