Drill holes in a plane for a fence?

[John Schreiber]

I've got a project where many of the edges will be trimmed at 22.5°, so I made up a fence which looks like this.
99335
My # 7 sits in the corner and the lower side registers against the work face.

First I tried holding it by hand, but I'm just not that talented and I couldn't keep everything aligned. Then I tried a clamp, and that works, but it weighs a ton and messes up the ballance.

Could I drill holes in the wings of my jointer and use wood screws to attach the fence to the plane? Is there another way to do this (without spending real money)?

[Greg Cole]

I'd rather try to sink some rare earth magnets with a dab o' epoxy in the jig before I drilled holes in a plane.... or run the pieces on my tailed jointer.
Least the first isn't totally taboo here in the cave... :rolleyes: And RE mag's aren't too much "real money".
Greg

[David Keller NC]

A bit of extra comment on the magnet idea (which is probably the best one, by the way) - you might want to buy fairly large neodynium magnets of about 3/8" - 1/2" in diameter, and sink holes in the wooden fence on the side opposite to where your jointer's going with a forstner bit. That way, you've got continuous wood in contact with your plane, and it will be easy to plane that face if the wood warps due to humidity changes. Plane blades don't like neo magnets. :)

Another thought is to buy on the the antique jointer fences that Stanley, Millers Falls and a host of other companies made for their metal planes. These attach to your plane with thumscrews bearing against the inside of the sidewall of the plane, and generally allow adjustment between 90 degrees and about 30 degrees to the sole of the plane. Personally, I like the wooden fence better - the thumbscrews can damage the finish on the inside of the plane.

Finally, you could buy the Veritas magnet fence and attach a wooden bevel to the inside face to get the angle you want.

[Marcus Ward]

If you drill holes in a #7, hordes of tool collectors will rise up from the grave and... uh... smash your pumpkins. Try the magnets ;)

[Pedro Reyes]

Magnets is great idea, but you can do this for less and a short trip to the BORG, today...

Not sure how it goes on your plane, but I am assuming somwhere on the side. What about some bolts through your fence, use over-sized washers to "pinch" the sides of your plane?

Just a thought.

/p

[Doug Shepard]

How long are the wood pieces? Could you just use at shooting board with the plae lying on it's side instead?

[John Schreiber]

Lots of good ideas:


I'd rather try to sink some rare earth magnets with a dab o' epoxy in the jig . . .
Good idea. I want to get this done this weekend so I'll see if I can source them locally.


. . . sink holes in the wooden fence on the side opposite to where your jointer's going with a forstner bit. . . .

. . . buy one of the the antique jointer fences . . . .

. . . Veritas magnet fence and attach a wooden bevel . . .
I'll experiment to see if there's enough force through an eighth of an inch or so of wood. Antique or Veritas are good, but they are too much like real money. (Mr. Lee wants $45.50 for his and while I'm sure it's worth it, if I can do it cheaper myself, I will.)


If you drill holes in a #7, hordes of tool collectors will rise up from the grave and... uh... smash your pumpkins. Try the magnets ;)
It's a fairly recent Record, so it doesn't have any "collectors" value. I also figure that if it doesn't cause any other damage and it increases the usefulness of the tool, customizing is a good thing.


. . . use over-sized washers to "pinch" the sides of your plane? . . .
I'll check to see if that would work, but I think it would put all the force on one edge and that it wouldn't seat well. But, something like that might work really well as a positioner in combination with magnets.


How long are the wood pieces? Could you just use at shooting board with the plane lying on it's side instead?
The wood needs to be approached from a couple of different angles and the longest piece will be over 5', so I don't think that will work.

[Marcus Ward]

You can get 2 neodymium magnets out of an old hard drive, if you have one laying around. You'll have to disassemble it to get them out but they're super super strong and worth the trouble. I am almost certain 2 of those would make a fence that'd be difficult to remove.

[harry strasil]

drill holes in the wood at the edge of the plane ribs and use fender washers on bolts, thats the way some of the factory fences are held on.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/irnsrgn/wood/planeguide001.jpg

[Greg Cole]

You can get 2 neodymium magnets out of an old hard drive, if you have one laying around. You'll have to disassemble it to get them out but they're super super strong and worth the trouble. I am almost certain 2 of those would make a fence that'd be difficult to remove.
Mcguyver or what? That and an exhaust pipe, a swiss army knife and some gas will also make a rocket launcher...;):rolleyes::D

[Robert Rozaieski]

What about double stick carpet tape? That stuff is pretty strong and sticks to anything.

[Phillip Pattee]

It sounds like a good task for a donkey's ear on a shooting board to me.
http://www.fineboxes.com/ShootingBoard.htm

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/album/albums/userpics/10001/Shooting_Board_5.jpg

Or a jig like this shooting jack. http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwmitrejack.html

These ideas are from the cornish workshop.

[Frank Drew]

I use a couple of tiny c-clamps to attach a wood fence to my jack plane and it works like a champ; very positive holding and very quickly on and off. I'd be nervous about drilling into the fairly thin cast wall of a plane.

[Tristan Raymond]

If it starts looking like drilling the holes is going to produce the sturdiest connection and provide the easiest solution, I say go for it. It's your plane and the more useful it is to you, the better it is as a tool.

...just in case you need a dissenting view.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Junior Stasil has an excellent idea. Another way is to use a hot melt gluegun and glue. Since the glue is a thermoplastic, reheating make it easy to remove. I've used it for years to temporarily attach something. Half the time you don't even need heat, you can pop it off with a chisel.

[Johnny Kleso]

I would make the seat much wider if you can and the fence 3" longer than the plane..

This way you can use wooden washers and wood screws to clamp the plane to the fence at the toe and heel..

You can also use quick clamps..

You can also clamp over the top on the cheeks......

Unless I had a cracked body I would not drill into it unless it was a money maker..

[George Springer]

It's your plane, drill holes in it if you want. It's a tool to do a job. GS

[Tony Zaffuto]

Greg,

Please no tailed jointers!!!!!! I speak from yesterday's (Saturday) experience with mine! I've been doing virtually all my work with resorting to a jointer or planer, but I was in a hurry and had to clean up a number of pieces of 6' cherry stock. To make a long story short, that damned tailed beast made my job longer! I am so unused to using a powered jointer that I had to think am I doing this correctly? Where do I put pressure? Over the blades, against the fence and so on. Which way will tear-out occur? Because of nicks in the blades, I had to move the fence in. Oh Oh, dang it, I forgot to lock it down and found that out halfway through the first cut.

Anyhow, after screwing up two edges on the first piece, I thought maybe the next piece with less gnarly looking grain would run better. Nah, it was the same! And so, back to the bench to do it the way I should have in the first place. Anyone want to buy a vintage 8" Delta jointer?

To the first poster, unless the #7 is an exceptional plane, go ahead and drill it for the fence, or figure out how to groove the fence so that you can run some screws in one side to tighten against the plane sole.

I guess the moral of my story is to go with what you are familiar with, but if you are adventurous and want to try something different, when you see the first hints of issues, step back and put some more thought into the next thing you try. This goes for hand tools and power tools.

Now its down to the shop to correct some more "issues"!

You all have a good Sunday!

Tony Z.

[Frank Drew]

It's your plane, drill holes in it if you want. It's a tool to do a job. GS

Well of course he can do whatever he wants with his own tool, but some of the warnings had to do with risk of weakening the cast iron plane body, not that it would be sacrilegious to drill holes in the tool.

[Johnny Kleso]

I think Carpet Tape and Tiny C-Clamps would work just fine...

If you drill holes in the body you will make a $100 plane a $40 plane..

As to weaking the casting the round hole would not cause much weaking IMHO

http://stanleytools.home.comcast.net/1.gif

[harry strasil]

a trick to help prevent round holes from cracking is to lightly chamfer the sharp edges front and back.

[Derek Cohen]

Just get a Stanley #386 (or similar) fence for your #7. These have variable settings, and you can dial in the angle of your choice.

Look on eBay.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Lee%20Valley%20Bevel%20Up%20Jointe r_html_7c471ec9.jpg

It is the one at the rear on a #7 ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Lee%20Valley%20Bevel%20Up%20Jointe r_html_m6b135776.jpg

Here it is attached to a Veritas BU Jointer ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Lee%20Valley%20Bevel%20Up%20Jointe r_html_m35655a39.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Hamlin]

Awww, I was hoping for more cries of sacrilege when I read the subject line :D


Downside:
slight reduction in resale value (only users would be interested)
Upsides:
more secure and less cumbersome (i.e. functionally superior) to other methods.
personalised - no longer an anonymous one of many identical tools, but moulded to your requirement. (We are Man the Toolmaker after all.)
future historians will find it more interesting - gives an insight into historical tool usage.
Doesn't risk magnetising the blade.
Now, on a similar note, I have an early Millers Patent plough I want to weld a ... (just kidding - it's a type 6 - but since even a user grade type 1 isn't historically significant, so if I had a need...)

Cheers
Steve

[Bob Smalser]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=99335&thumb=1&d=1224877302

There's enough taper in the plane cheeks that C-clamps aren't the best solution for hard use. And drilling is out of the question if you expect the plane to survive the next fall off the scaffold uncracked. Buy yourself a proper jointer fence like one of these. Then for angles and shapes the adjustable fence won't handle, simple bolt a wood face like you show to the fence using machine screws.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/285184097.jpg

I keep two around to plane multiple angles without having to fiddle with tools.

[Frank Drew]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=99335&thumb=1&d=1224877302

There's enough taper in the plane cheeks that C-clamps aren't the best solution for hard use.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/2594266/285184097.jpg



I never had any trouble keeping my shop-made wood fence snugged up securely to the plane body with a couple of small c-clamps; the clamping feet on the screws of c-clamps pivot enough to accomodate any small amount of taper in the plane cheeks.

Nothing wrong with a commercial fence, of course, but I don't think they're clearly better than ones we make ourselves.

[John Schreiber]

Thank you for all the suggestions above. I'm willing to drill my plane if there's no alternative, but there are good alternatives. Small c-clamps sound great, but I can't seem to make a secure connection that way.

Here's the solution I came up with. No pictures yet, but soon.

I've got a big headed screw sticking out of the fence to catch the foward wing of the plane so that the plane can't slide forward on the fence. I should have filed down the threads at the contact point to avoid scratching the top of the wing, but I didn't. That screw plus the corner on the fence and some finger pressure are sufficient when actually planing, but the fence comes loose as I take it away from the wood.

I've got two rare earth magnets liberated from an old hard drive which I am in the process of epoxying to the fence. They will be in a depression on the outside of the fence and will work through about 1/8th inch of wood. The fence should be secure that way, but still easy to remove.

A Stanley 386 or similar would be sweet and useful, but the solution above cost me nothing but scraps and time. I'm thinking of making a square fence to go along with this one. I think it would make edge jointing a cinch.

Some people have mentioned the danger of magnetizing your blade. What's the danger there?

[Marcus Ward]

When you hone it it'll leave metal dust on the blade? Seriously you're not going to magnetize your blade by putting a magnetic fence on the plane. The plane acts as a ... I can't remember what it's called, but it increases the field in the opposite direction so on the other side of the plane sidewall where the blade is you'll have almost no field.

Anyhow, sounds good. Magnets ought to be fine, it's not like this fence needs to withstand a lot of pressure, it just needs to be a reference for square planing. I think I'll make one.

[Steve Hamlin]

Hi John
I don't like magnetised blades because it makes clearing the swarf when grinding/sharpening a pain, as it seems to clump more. More of a problem when using a guide. Similarly, loose wire attracted to the edge when final honing can set you back a step.
(And there again, this may just be my own weird little foible)
Cheers
Steve

[John Schreiber]

I finally got some pictures and some time to post them.

This is what it looks like.
102111

The magnets came from a hard drive and are attached with epoxy. I left the mounting plates attached because I thought I might break something removing them. The dot on the forward end is the cut off end of the screw which sticks out the other side.
102112

The screw prevents the plane from sliding forward and the magnets hold everything together. There's about 1/8th of SYP between the magnets and the place where the plane contacts the wood. I wanted to show the power of the magnet, so I moved the fence over by my sharpening area. It immediately grew tight little patches of iron whiskers.
102113

Thanks for all your suggestions. I plan to make a flat one next time I get a chance, and some magnets. Flat should be a cinch.