Which shaper cutters?

[Steve Rozmiarek]

The new shaper will be here soon, and I think its time for some new cutters. I know practically nothing about router/shaper bits, so help please?

I need to start with a cabinet door set. Panel raiser, rail and stile, backcutter, etc. The shaper has a 1 1/4" spindle. While the $1800 Felder set looks very nice, I wouldn't mind spending less, but I do want quality tooling. Where should I start?

[Mike Heidrick]

Freud UC900 set for cheaper - Freeborn and or LRH for lifetime investment.

[David DeCristoforo]

Ditto LRH or Freeborn. I also line Nordic Saw And Tool. They have a huge selection of profiles. Don't waste your dough on cheap cutters. The temptation is great but resist! The Felder cutters as with as any quality insert tooling is generally going to cost more going in than fixed knife cutters with little real advantage for a small to medium sized shop..

One thing to look at are cutter sets like this one:
http://www.freud-tools.com/freudrsrails.html
which will give you a lot of flexibility for a very reasonable cost.

[Charles McCracken]

Freud UC900 set

Thanks for pointing to the Freud set. However, the UC900 is for 3/4" spindle. We actually offer more variety in 1-1/4" than in 3/4" though:
http://www.freudtools.com/c-4-shaper-cutters.aspx

[Jeff Duncan]

What kind of production are you honestly shooting for? Since this is your first shaper I'm guessing your not trying to get to big? If so I really like the Freeborn and LRH cutters, not cheap but good quality. If you think you'll really be knocking out some product then you'll want to look into insert tooling. There are many good manufacturers out there but I don't have personal experience with them to offer.
good luck,
JeffD

[Rod Sheridan]

http://www.cheyennesales.com/catalog/shaperindex.htm

The above link shows a cutterhead and High Speed Steel knives for use in the above cutterhead.

I use these for solid wood, and am very happy with the performance of the product.

There are other manufacturers of similar products, and all are good for solid wood.

If you're using man made materials then you will need carbide cutters, and the above posts give you some great products to chose from

regards, Rod.

[Brad Shipton]

Garniga makes a very nice kitchen cab set. I would go with insert style if you want more options with the head. Yes, it will cost a few more $$ up front, but you may need other profiles in the future if you are a production guy. Keep in mind Felder is a re-seller when it comes to cutters. They go out to many many diff suppliers for cutters and re-brand them Felder. I would much rather support the companies that have the knowledge to build such fine cutters.

Lots of other options for high end cutters too. Leitz, Ghudo, FSTool, Royce Air..... I have bought several Garniga cutters largely because the rep is great and their online catlog is one of the best. You might want to check out CGSchmidt, Rangate or any of the other cutter manuf listed on the Woodweb. Freuds european website lists a lot more cutters than the US site and I understand most are no more difficult to get than many other european cutters.

Brad

[J.R. Rutter]

Are you looking for a 3-pc set (cope, stick, and panel), or do you need door edges as well?

Byrd inserts are priced reasonably, and you can swap profiles.

cope + stick + door edge = $280 ea. with tips
panel = $290 ea. with tips.

Inserts cut better than brazed, and give you more versatility.

[Peter Quinn]

For panels three wing cutters from Freeborn are great but will cost you. Freeborn door sets are hard to beat too. I got the Freud RP2000 set and have had very good success with it. It included a square edge back cutter and I picked up a radius edge back cutter too. The inserts are razor sharp, easy to change and give a good surface quality. Lots of options for the money and good performance. Byrd makes a similar setup similarly priced.

I have used Freud cabinet door sets, they produce a good product, but the Freeborn sets tend to be better thought out and offer more set up options with a single set. You pay more but it can be a better value long term depending on your needs.

The Amana Profile pro insert system or similar 40MM insert system from CMT available at Cheyenne sales is a great set to get you going with a lot of useful molding profiles for not much money per cutter set, worth a look and worth every penny. They have inserts for cope and stick and several door edge profiles in their line, even a simple panel raiser that I have not used.

A good corrugated back insert head from Schmidt or Wisconsin Knife Works will give you lots of options too. If you are planning on making a wide variety of cope and stick profiles an insert system may be worth a look as noted above. They are not cheap as a set but are a great value if you consider the cost of having bought individual three wing brazed cutters, and the carbide seems to be both sharper and harder which I understand is a function of its not needing to be braised to the steel body? Not certain there.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll need time to absorb all of this info, check websites, drool, etc., but need to answer a couple questions, and ask a few first.

This is not my first shaper. I just sold my first, a nice Delta version. It was underutilized in my shop however, mainly because of the lack of good tooling. I accumulated a mixed assortment of somewhat effective tooling, and used it to do mainly doors.

My new shaper is a Felder CF741 with a power feeder. I want to be able to use this one correctly from the beginning, so, I need good tooling. I am going to build cabinets for a utility room as the first project through this machine, and I'd like raised panel doors. In the near future, I expect to do an office suite and shop cabinets. The shaper cutters will have light duty compared to a cabinet shop however. I would like two profiles of panel raiser, and two rail and stile styles. Of course I'll need more as we go, but lets start here.

It seems that insert tooling might be somewhat more likely to have tedious setup? Is there any problem with the cutters not indexing properly, causing sloppy joints? And last, what is the difference between the Freud, which looks nice, and easily has the best website, and the more expensive Freeborn? I usually buy the higher priced tool, assuming that it is better quality, but is it in this case? Why?

[Charlie Plesums]

I sprang for the DeHart insert carbide cutters - they also sell the Garniga. The heads are semi-dedicated... you can change the profile by changing cutters (5 minutes per head, no alignment issues), but you cannot change the function (for example, I cannot used my "raised panel" rail and stile cutters for a glass door.

I do some contract doors for another shop, and after I got the DeHart they complimented me about how nicely I sanded the profiles. Don't tell them that I don't sand them at all.

[Rick Fisher]

I think Shaper cutters are similar to Router bits.

I have about 1/2 Freud and 1/2 shop fox/ Grizzly. The Freud are much better and I buy Freud if the cutter will get used alot.

If the cutter is a reverse glue up bit or a miter lock.. something which may run 100 feet in my shop over the next 5 years, I buy cheap.

I only own about 11 cutters. The most common are the eased edge and slot cutters. I am just getting into raised panel stuff.

[Marlin Williams]

I got some DML 1 1/4 cutters from eBay pretty cheap.

Also I posted a deal in the deal section that rockler and woofcraft is getting rid of most/all their cutters. Most, if not all, are 3/4 but they are both made by ammana. The are about 1/2 off. They might still have some decent ones. I think some have sold out.

[Jeff Duncan]

I haven't used the inserts, but this is my understanding of them, you buy the heads and have carbide inserts with the profiles needed that bolt on to them. Need to change the profile you just unbolt the insert and bold the new one in place. The fit of the joints should always be dead on b/c it's a single knife for the profile vs stacking cutters. When it gets dull you replace with a new set, I don't believe you re-sharpen but someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.
The downside for someone like me is flexibility. I can take my Freeborn set of cutters and run normal stick and cope cuts. Then by switching out cutters I can run a setup for glass doors, and by swapping again I can cut the profile only for something like a front on a wine ref. So with one set I can get three different styles of joinery where with the insert you would have to have a insert for each profile meaning 6 all together. Generally I believe production shops get a good ROI on inserts, a small shop like mine doing maybe a hundred doors a year, not so much.
I have both Freud and Freeborn cutters and they both work well. I'm not a big fan of cheapy cutters as I can usually notice the difference.
good luck,
JeffD

[Charles McCracken]

When it gets dull you replace with a new set, I don't believe you re-sharpen but someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.
JeffD

Freud insert cutters can be sharpened many times before they need to be replaced.

[Brad Shipton]

Charlie:
I toured the DeHart site and noticed they list a profile sander. Do you know much about this? Before I end up on another mailing list, I thought I might ask you about it.

Brad

[Peter Quinn]

The Freud and Amana inserts I have used have both indexed perfectly, no alignment issues. The Freud RP2000 knives can be sharpened, they are carbide, but I think given the cost of replacements versus sharpening, I would be inclined to throw them way and buy new inserts. The Amana HSS cutters can be sharpened, but that would just be stupid given the cost of replacement.

I have made interior passage doors with the Amana insert set, no alignment issues at all, perfect joinery alignment. I would agree that the stacks from Freeborn are very versatile. I am working on a set of 40 passage doors presently, using Freeborn cutters. They are flat panel MDF birch faced, so I had to set up to match that material. The set we had has cutters for glass doors, 1/2" tongues/grooves, or a split center cutter with shims to match sheet goods. I couldn't do that with my insert cutters, but I think there are sets with insert knives in stacks that allow this rather than one big insert that cuts all aspects of the profile.

The most appreciable difference between the Freud and Freeborn sets seems to be that the Freeborn sets include all the cutters for raised panel construction and glass doors, if I'm not mistaken, and the carbide seems to be thicker which allows more sharpenings, though that may not be accurate and may not be an issue unless your production is considerable.

[J.R. Rutter]

Re glass doors - I like keeping the stub tenon joint, so I build the door with standard cutter config, glue up without panel(s), then route out the back with a rabbet and flush trim bit. Not as fast as glass config, but unless you then do dowels or loose tenons, the strength is better(?)