Shop Layout Design Feedback Please

[Ryan Cassidy]

So I was sitting at the PC last night and decided I wasn't as close to finishing my shop as I thought :-) I decided that before I do any plumbing with the DC, I'd go to grizzly.com and work on the layout some just to make sure I have it the way I want. Well, I can't seem to decide. This is my first (well 2nd) post on Sawmill Creek, I've been lurking for a few weeks though. Great resources here!!

So I've attached 3 screenshots in PDF (Sorry couldn't resize them to fit the picture size limits).

Curious as to the more experienced opinions on this forum which would work out the best long term for me. This is my first "real" shop.

Items that are on wheels:
Clamp Rack
Planer
Table Saw
Welder
Tool Chest
Joiner

Everything else is fixed so it can't be moved easily for each use.

Compressed Air Outlets and 110 outlets are all around the shop. No shortage there. Lighting is 6 dual 4ft flouresant lights. Floor is Concrete, Walls are 2x6, Bottom half in Bead board, top half in peg board, finished with 1x4 trim. All walls and ceilings are insulated.

Everything is scaled to be within about 1-2 inches of actual size.

Thanks for any feedback, I thought I was close in a decision, but I'm seconding guessing myself now.

Cheers,
Ryan Cassidy

[Anthony Whitesell]

I'm not going to vote for any of them yet. I see some issues with each. The biggest thing to keep in mind about shop layouts are the infeed and outfeed areas. I wish shop icons would be shown with this detail. For example, In option 1, the TS in the middle of the floor is GREAT. you have extended in/outfeed area through the doorways. I have a really small work space (8x12) and run into the in/outfeed issue all the time, but I too have the opposing doorways to temporarily widen the shop. But how the HECK are you going to use the jointer stuck in the corner (facing the wrong way:D), there's no outfeed space.

There is one icon I can't ID in option 1 in top center.

In option 1, I like the TS in the middle of the floor. Plenty of in/outfeed space and room to the left and right of it. Table saws really require some serious floor space. The welder behind the door really isn't working for me. The grinder is taking a lot of wall space, it look like it would fit behind the door. I like the RAS and large workbench locations or they could be swapped.

In option 3, I like the welder in the corner and next to the small workbench and next to the tool chest. The welder doesn't get used everyday and only need to get to it for change overs.

Because you have provided such detail with the shop shape, try this. Starting at the left door and moving clockwise, Small Workbench, Welder, tool chest, RAS, right door. Clamp rack, Large workbench, Machine X (unknown machine in top center of option 1). Drum Sander at the 6' wall in the lower center. The planer against the 6'-5" wall and jointer side to side(with the jointer kind of out in the floor) and the grinder behind the door. The table saw stays in the middle of the floor.

[Ryan Cassidy]

Wow.. Great Feedback. Thank you!!

Yeah, the Joiner is backwards isn't it :-) As well, what is a RAS? There were some icons that Grizzly didn't have on their site so I had to improvise. I've got an updated layout that has labels on each tool. That machine that is "unknown" is a Mitre Box. I'll make the changes you referenced and see how it lays out. I'll repost in a bit. BTW the joiner is on Wheels (grizzly model) that is SOOOOOO easy to move out a bit. But I do need to alteast flip it around :-) lol.

Also what I liked about option one was that the big saw chip/dust producers tended to be closer to the DC.

Cheers,
Ryan

[Thom Sturgill]

Option 1 places the tools closer to the DC making for shorter duct runs. which is a big plus. I notice that all three options keep the one table in the same spot. Is there a reason for that? It looks like you could swap that table (in #1) with the bandsaw and drill press and get an arrangement with all of your machines clustered on one end nearer the DC and room for assembly/finishing on the other end of the shop. Also consider possibly orienting the TS parallel to the long table if you move it.

Shop layout is somewhat personal to the way you work, but is also somewhat dictated by work flow. Typically, wood comes in and is sized, has joinery cut, then test assembled, sanded, final assembled, and then finish applied. You may have one piece in glue up and another just being sized while taking a break from cutting tenons or dovetails.... That all depends on the type of work that you do, but your shop should reflect that.

[Ryan Cassidy]

Hrmm good point on the table swap. I have it there for a very small reason. I put a shelf and installed 4 organizers above it. But that's all relatively easy to move if need be. It would be nice to have the tools up in that area for the DC and that it is a wider part of the room (slightly at best) which will provide for more movement when working with the main power tools.

Cheers,
Ryan

[Bob Slater]

I like option 1 most, but I think I would turn the table saw 90 degrees and make an island there that you can use other tools on or have some additional counter space. At least that is what I am doing in my similarly sized shop. It will also maximize your out feed area. On my island I will have a router table sharing the table saw's fence and a Sliding mitre saw station. The dust collection will come from overhead ducting with gates to block off unused tools.

[glenn bradley]

I voted "stinks" but let me qualify that; Option 1 would be best because although you have many machines on wheels Option 2 and 3 have these issues in common:
- The area close to the DC has congested floor space.
- Despite your best intentions, you will get tired of rolling large tools closer to the DC and will either fall back on long runs or "I don't really need DC for just these few cuts"
- I failed to ask about your DC. If it is 3 - 5HP and is properly plumbed the distance is probably OK ;-)
In option 1 if you turn your BS 180* you can probably do most cuts in place. This is what I do and I only roll it out a bit every so often. Again the BS is too far for most DC's and they are notorious air hogs to get decent DC. Mine is about 8ft away but my DC is a whimp.

[Anthony Whitesell]

RAS=Radial Arm Saw. Option 1 between the clamp rack and the door. Or atleast that's what I thought it was.

[Ryan Cassidy]

Ahh.. That was a Bandsaw.. Might have been trying to compromise in my search for tool icons.

Ryan

[Peter Quadarella]

I didn't like the designs for a lot of the same reasons already discussed. You shouldn't plan to wheel your machines around. Set up in a good way that will minimize moving machines - which is a good capability but not something you want to always do. I think I would prefer option 3 if the tablesaw was in the middle of the other half of the room ,and the jointer and planer were back to back against one wall. Then the other cutting stuff on the other side of the tablesaw.

[John Schreiber]

If that's a window on the 6' wall at the bottom of the drawings, I'd be sure to put a workbench there for hand work, assembly and finishing. The natural light is better than anything else and it's nice to have a view.

Also, where is wood storage? How will you get things in and out of the shop?

[Ryan Cassidy]

If you exit on the Right hand side door, almost immediately to the right is a door outside. I can easily fit 16ft boards and 4x8 sheets of plywood into the shop this way. Actually this is how both of my workbenches came in. If you exit the Left door, that goes to a big open area which will eventually be finished basement.

Wood storage - If you go through the door on the right, wood storage is on the long wall to the left (Back side of the shop wall). This is a 40x9 storage area for all kinds of stuff, but I put a few racks in specifically for wood. Both the shop and storage area are insulated and utilize a dehumidifier.

Yes that is a Window at the bottom. I normally put a box fan in it when I do any spraying in the shop.

I'll get to tweaking the layout this evening..... Thanks for the feedback. Keep it coming!

Cheers,
Ryan

[Travis Rassat]

I liked option 1 the best. The reason I don't like option 2 is because of the two workbenches being butted up against one another. It makes the work surface and storage space below less accessible. If bench 2 was mobile, that would be a whole different story.

[Ryan Cassidy]

The DC is the 2hp 220 Grizzly Unit with a 2.5 Micron Bag. It will be a 2 stage with a Separator before it. Being delivered tomorrow.

BTW my router is mounted on an extension of the Table Saw for space concerns too.

I agree on the tables being butted up against each other in Option 2.

Overall, it's coming along though.

I'll be posting an updated layout trying to incorporate all the feedback received. Keeping in mind how I like to or am used to working in the shop.

Cheers,
Ryan

[Ryan Cassidy]

See updated Picture attached. I took the time to label and run the DC lines to get feedback on that as well.

Thanks for the feedback thus far. The only thing I would need to move to use is the planer and I've considered switching positions with it and the bandsaw. But I like the outfeed on the bandsaw not to be limited if possible. It's easier to move the planer on wheels than the bandsaw not on wheel I think :-)

I also like the relation to all wood destroying tools to the DC and that they are kept on 1/2 of the room together.


Cheers,
Ryan

[Anthony Whitesell]

Looking good:D. Just a couple of swap suggestions.

1. Tool Chest and Clamp Rack. Tool Chest look like it might be hard to get to on a regular basis. You won't have to get to the clamp rack as often.

2. Jointer and Bandsaw. It will give you more space to roll out the planer while maintaining your outfeed space. Secondly, thinking vertically, I think most work at the drill press will clear the jointer (go right over the top of it). So you won't have to move the jointer like you might the bandsaw. Finally, it would give you a fixed and a mobile piece of machine on each side of the shop.

While running your DC ducting. You may want to extend the main to on or both of the workbenches for any sanding that you do or for a portable bench top downdraft table later on.

[Kevin Groenke]

Hey Ryan,

That's a tight fit.

w/12' width I would be inclined to try to orient the tablesaw so that you're ripping in the long dimension of the room. This allows you to add an outfeed table which can double as layout/assembly space, storage can be added beneath the outfeed table.

I would also try the orient the planer, jointer and miter saw in the same orientation, this is where it gets really tight, that's quite a bit of equipment to fit in 12'-5". A purpose built workstation (with fence and measured, repeatable stops) for a miter saw makes it much more convenient to use, the same table might be able to service other equipment, the space beneath can be used to store hand tools, stock, welder?

IF the planer can fit behind the door, AND you won't be using it too frequently, it may be able to be connected via flex hose to a DC run at the end of the miter saw station.

A rolling clamp rack is nice in a big shop, but you might find that floor space is precious. If you find that you use clamps in the same place/s as you work you might consider hanging clamps on the wall near where you use them.

Is that grinder on a pedestal or can it live under a bench when not being used? Where the heck are you going to put the lathe, edge sander, drum sander, mortiser.... sorry.

It sure would be nice if you could swing those doors OUT.

g'luck
-kg

[Ryan Cassidy]

lol.. Well I wish I could convince the Wife that the rest of the basement should be workshop and my "shop" (attached drawings) should be living space :-)

I do have an 8x8 room or so that the door on the right connects to. I might be removing that door and leaving it open to gain extra space. Right now that room just stores paints, primers, scraps and stuff like that on shelving. That's another story & workday in itself though.

Thanks for taking the time to rework that drawing. I've made some small tweaks in both the layout and the DC routing that will benefit DC flow and my work flow. I guess when I get back to the shop I'm going to have to test this layout and see how it works in real life.

I'd like to change the position of the table saw, but it doesn't allow me enough room side to side. It's 59"x30" in dimension. So I'll try it in person and see if it hopefully works.

Thanks again everyone. Each idea is making this shop better. It's 100% better than what I had in my head a few days ago.

Cheers,
Ryan

[Ryan Cassidy]

I just wanted to post a follow up.....

I've rearranged all the tools (and acquired some new ones), Run my Dust Collection Lines, Got approval and moved the door and gained more room, added a few lights etc etc. Now I have to hang the ceiling and paint the floor, but in the meantime I'm busy producing some output to show the family the investment was worth it :-)

So this is how it's ended up. All and all, the workflow works good for me, but if I had more room.. well, isn't that always the want.

Thanks again for everyones help!!

Cheers,
Ryan

[Grant Morris]

I enjoy working on these kinds of problems so I spent a little time playing with your floorplan Ryan. You have a pretty narrow shop so I would probably deal with it by creating multi-purpose counter tops. In my pics I have created two fixed height counters that are on each side of one of the doors. The space between the counters could then be temporarily used (with the door closed) for your SCMS or Portable Planer etc by either creating with rolling cabinets for each one or by creating shelf brackets on each side of the counter and dropping a shelf between them. The two fixed counters then become infeed/outfeed tables for the tool in the middle.

To make even more use of the fixed height counters, I would probably set the height at around 40" (guesstimate) so that I could push large tools under them to get them out of the way and still leave useable counter space. By making the table saw mobile, and making a mobile workbench of the same height as the table saw (when in cutting position), you could use the workbench as a support table when cutting sheet goods on the table saw.

I have attached the Visio doc I created so that you can play around with the moveable shapes if you like. I have also created and attached two images of the doc that show the floorplan with the tools put away and with the table saw and workbench in sheet-cutting position.

I couldn't figure out all the tools you had so I made some assumptions that are probably pretty close. One goal was to try and place tools that require large infeed and outfeed space in positions that give you that and I think I did it quite well. Bear in mind that many of the other tools can now stowed under the counters to get them out of the way when not in use and you have a lot of useable counter space.

Hopefully the ideas can help you figure out ways to get the most useage out of your space. If nothing else its food for thought...

P.S I had to rename the Visio file to a .zip to attach it.

[Ryan Cassidy]

Cool. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this! I'll take a look at the today. Definitely some good ideas in there and nothing is set in stone yet at the shop.

Cheers,
Ryan

[Don Bullock]

Ryan, since you already have the space and the tools are mostly on wheels, try out your plans in "real life." It's not too difficult to move the machines and tables/benches around and see what works best for you. Doing that will help you to get a better "feel" for your shop. Yes, working with it on paper like you are doing now can be helpful, but seeing the tools in the space works much better. --- just my $0.02 ---;)

[Todd Crawford]

You guys are good at this. I'll be hitting you up for some input when I start laying everything out for mine next month!

[Ryan Cassidy]

Sorry, Maybe I should have clarified. The posted (about 4 posts above) is my current setup in the shop that is in use. So far so good on the workflow. I might in a few weeks when I get to some bigger projects try some different layouts if the bigger projects don't work well. So far so good with all the small ones though.

Cheers,
Rayn