What's a shelix?

[Prashun Patel]

Ummm, dumb question alert:

What does a shelix cutterhead do for a planer? Best I can tell from a quick Google is that it cuts quieter than the regular knives...

[Douglas Brummett]

http://www.byrdtool.com/shs1.html

Just another way to skin a cat. Might be better or worse, time will tell. So long as replacement inserts are available they will remain top shelf.

[Mike OMelia]

One thought is that the shelix design stays in constant contact with the work piece. Therefore, snipe and other disasters associated with the lifting of the piece should be reduced. Also, in theory, it should be possible to thickness wood to thinner values. However, friends at OLF have suggested that performance in this area is mixed.

Mike

Here's a dumb question. Will they make shelix blades for shapers and jointers?

[Charlie Plesums]

I have a Shelix cutter for my shaper. Very smooty pattern cutting, and could probably be used as a jointer if the fence were set up appropriately.

Both spiral and shelix cutters use a series of carbide squares, so if an individual cutter is nicked or dulled, you just rotate it 90 degrees. My planer has long cutters and sometimes produces long shavings that plug the dust collectors... the "dust" from the carbide cutters is in smaller pieces and collects well.

The difference between spiral and shelix is that the Byrd Shelix cutters are at an angle, so that it shears - a spiral helix - better than a straight cut. I can't compare the two, but my Shelix has never had ANY tear out. The complexity is that as soon as you turn the square cutter at an angle, it has to follow the curvature of the cutter head... not a lot, but some, so the square is no longer a flat square.

[Mike Spanbauer]

Can't add anything to Mike's description other than the head is MUCH easier on figured wood than straight knives.

Mike, yes they do and some find them as valuable as the planer. I personally only have a Byrd on my 20" planer as the jointer doesn't produce any finished surface cuts in my shop. I use a handplane to sweeten edge joints and the TS to clean up the edge (I don't joint slowly enough to remove all scallops usually, just slow enough to ensure a straight plane).

mike

Edit: charlie beat me to it :)

[Neal Clayton]

in addition to constant blade contact, you're getting more cutting time out of those blades before they're dulled, and then you still have 3 more sides to cut on before you throw them out. and they're self leveling/centering so all it takes to change or rotate them is a drill and about 30 minutes. and if one gets broken due to a hard knot or nail or any other wood anomaly you're out 1 dollar and about 5 minutes of your time, instead of a new straight blade and the hassle of balancing all 3 again.

"as valuable as the planer itself" i would say is pretty accurate.

[Alex Shanku]

http://www.byrdtool.com/shs1.html

Just another way to skin a cat. Might be better or worse, time will tell. So long as replacement inserts are available they will remain top shelf.


What do mean? How could it be "worse"

Alex

[Douglas Brummett]

What do mean? How could it be "worse"

Alex
It would be worse if for some reason byrd went out of business. As far as I know they are the only ones making inserts for their heads, correct me if I am wrong. So it is one of those instances where proprietary parts supply could dry up. That's about the only negative I can see, but it is a big one.

[Will Blick]

Neal, so you mean, it takes 30 minutes to rotate all the cutters 90 degrees? How long is the cutter head? 12"?


I would think, a set of sharp straight knives will still provide the smoothest possible cut, agreed?

[Brad Shipton]

Two other claims is that they are quieter and use less horsepower. There are quite a few european manufacturers making these too. Some of the older versions were true 90deg angles and now I understand some are putting a very small rad on the knives to reduce the scallop problems.

I have been contemplating replacing my straight head to a Byrd and I sent sample of Jatoba to my Byrd rep that was torn quite badly with my straight head. The test shows a great improvement, but I still have not switched.

Brad

[Paul Greathouse]

It would be worse if for some reason byrd went out of business. As far as I know they are the only ones making inserts for their heads, correct me if I am wrong. So it is one of those instances where proprietary parts supply could dry up. That's about the only negative I can see, but it is a big one.

I'm sure if Byrd were to go out of business that Grizzly would sieze the opportunity and start producing replacements. Have you seen their Catalog they sell everthing from sausage stuffers to Wide Belt sanders. The only thing I couldn't find in thier catalog was kitchen sinks.

[Neal Clayton]

Neal, so you mean, it takes 30 minutes to rotate all the cutters 90 degrees? How long is the cutter head? 12"?


I would think, a set of sharp straight knives will still provide the smoothest possible cut, agreed?

mine is 18". there are 6 rows of 20, so 120 knives total.

my planer doubles as a molder so in my situation, not really. it has rubber rollers instead of steel for lateral grip and just can't be made to eliminate chatter. since these spiral heads have constant blade contact, chatter is impossible, so i can use my molder as an everyday planer with the spiral head, but can't with the straight knives.

[Wilbur Pan]

What's a Shelix?

The female version of a Helix, of course. ;)

[Gary Herrmann]

Hmm. Does make me wonder if Holbren is going to have a sale on extra inserts one of these days. Hint. Hint. :)

[Steve Nouis]

Way less tearout and stays sharp WAAAY longer. Steve

[Mike Kratky]

FYI: I have a Shelix cutter system on my newer 20" Powermatic Planer.
#1 It's incredibly quiet.
#2 The finish cut is incredibly smooth.
#3 It slices the wood rather than chipping it.
#4 Particularly effective on figured woods.
#5 The cutters last 20X longer.
#6 If a cutter chips you simply rotate it 90 degrees
#7 No more wasted time resharpening, resetting, and the use of jigs.

Hope the info helps. I posted similar questions on this site before I bought this type of planer and never got a straight answer. Finally gave up and made the purchase, best investment I ever made.

[Will Blick]

Great feedback Mike....sometimes the web doesn't have the answers you want, so you jump in with both feet! Nice work.

What did you pay for the 20" Shelix? Is yours the Byrd system or did you buy Powermatics own version...assuming they offer their own?

BTW, when the 4 sides dull, how do you sharpen those little squares?

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Lots of commercial guys I know prefer HSS for hardwoods and carbide for soft.

I think it's because if the superb sharpness that you can get with HSS as compared to carbide.

Of course this may be a throw back to the bad old days of coarse granular carbide that you couldn't get real, real sharp no how.

[Tom Veatch]

...
BTW, when the 4 sides dull, how do you sharpen those little squares?

I think the inserts are intended to be disposable and not resharpened. But the research I've done indicates that under normal hobbiest use (no nails, etc. in the wood) it'll be a long time before you use up all 4 sides of a square.

Don't own one, yet, but my trigger finger is taking up the slack and I'll probably fire off an order shortly. The vendors I've looked at, Byrd included, offers sets of 10 replacement inserts (http://www.holbren.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1). I'll probably buy one of those sets as well as the head when the hammer falls.

[Gary Click]

Tom,

Both my heads came with five extra inserts and a T25 Torx Driver to use on the screws.

[Mike OMelia]

What's a shelix? The sister of of the (boy) helix. Sorry, late night browsing humor.:cool:

Mike

[Neal Clayton]

I think the inserts are intended to be disposable and not resharpened. But the research I've done indicates that under normal hobbiest use (no nails, etc. in the wood) it'll be a long time before you use up all 4 sides of a square.

Don't own one, yet, but my trigger finger is taking up the slack and I'll probably fire off an order shortly. The vendors I've looked at, Byrd included, offers sets of 10 replacement inserts (http://www.holbren.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1). I'll probably buy one of those sets as well as the head when the hammer falls.

i get about 1000-1200 linear feet (depending on wood hardness of course) on one edge before rotating. even then i could probably push it to 1500 feet before rotating them safely, it's just that when they start to dull the noise increases so i go ahead and rotate them at that point to keep the machine quieter.

you should always keep a few spares around. the inserts last much longer sharpness wise but because of the high carbide content, they're very brittle. when you rotate them you'll always lose a couple, the slightest flaw in any one blade from normal wear and tear will cause it to shatter when you rotate them. and it's probably not a good idea to have your face down there when screwing them back down either. they don't just crumble and break, shatter is a literal description. little pieces of high carbide steel in your eye might not be a good thing ;).

[Sean Rainaldi]

I'm sure if Byrd were to go out of business that Grizzly would sieze the opportunity and start producing replacements. Have you seen their Catalog they sell everthing from sausage stuffers to Wide Belt sanders. The only thing I couldn't find in thier catalog was kitchen sinks.

Haha don't be surprised, I want a Kohler K 3174 undertone sink way too much money though. Maybe it will be in next years catalogue Think they would gin one up for me if I asked?

[Sean Rainaldi]

Great feedback Mike....sometimes the web doesn't have the answers you want, so you jump in with both feet! Nice work.

What did you pay for the 20" Shelix? Is yours the Byrd system or did you buy Powermatics own version...assuming they offer their own?

BTW, when the 4 sides dull, how do you sharpen those little squares?

I was told by Grizzly tech support last week that you throw them out and buy new ones. They are not sharpen able, and cheap enough anyway to buy. I was asking about the H7655 not the shelix though.

[Sean Rainaldi]

Any consensus yet on the difference in cut quality between the Shelix vs the H7655? I'm thinking of buying as well.

[Brian Gumpper]

The cutters on the Byrd heads are standard sizes so no worry about them not being available.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a helical head 20" planer. It replaced a 15" straight knife planer. The difference is amazing.

The new planer is way quieter, does a much, much smoother job and offers waay less tearout.

I cant recommend it enough.

[Russ Massery]

The inserts last a LONG time. I've put mine though hell with the amount of hard maple I've run pass them in the last year or so. And way less tare out and maple can be a real test of that. As soon as the cash is available I'm going to put one in my planer.;)

[Jimmy Horrocks]

We were skeptical of going to carbide on our jointers and planers. HHS was supposed to be better in these machines. At least that was the common wisdom since carbide came along. The difference is the spiral design. That changes everything. These things cut everything (hard, soft, particle board, mdf, plexi, corian, etc) really well. By the way, you can get more than a thousand feet through before rotating the insets. We've blown through about 3000bf of QSWO for a project recently and the inserts are stilll sharp...