I want to purchase my first hand plane. Teach me O wise ones

[Charles Gantt]

In my introduction thread I mentioned that I am building my ww tool collection. I inherited some stuff from my grandfathers estate but for the most part my uncle got the nice hand tools. So I am ready to purchase a plane or 2 and honestly know nothing about them. So teach me what I need to know. I also will be buying my first few used to keep the cost down.

[John Dykes]

Clint Jones is selling a Type 11 #5 for $40 over on www.woodnet.net\forums (http://www.woodnet.net\forums). He used to post here as well... He's a trusted dealer and THE expert on Stanley's. Type 11 is commonly thought of to be the best Type of Stanley's. $40 is a good deal.

Nobody's offered him anything for it, so he's about ready to strip it for parts - which to me sounds quite tragic. Do yourself (and posterity) a favor and pick it up.

- jbd in Denver

[Robert Rozaieski]

Please don't take this the wrong way but what do you want a plane for? Do you have a specific project task in mind? Answer this question first, then it will be easier to figure out what tool will suit you best for the task at hand.

The best advise I can give you is to pick a project first, then figure out what tools you need to complete it. Don't get into the hobby trying to acquire all your tools first so you will have everything ready when you decide to build something. This rarely ends up working out well as you spend years accumulating tools and end up with nothing but a pile of tools to show for it as you never actually use them to make anything. Additionally, you'll end up with a lot of tools you really don't need and won't really use as you bought it because you might need it to do X. The worst part is you end up with nothing left over to spend on lumber.

If you have a place to work (workbench) then pick a small project that doesn't require a large investment in specialized tools and figure out what tools are needed for each task. This way you add tools as you need them for a particular project and don't end up selling off a lot of non-users later.

If you don't have a workbench, that is your first task. Many folks build them, but it can be a difficult project for someone new to the craft. The joinery is large and not really like funiture joinery. It's more like timber framing. If you can cobble together something sturdy and build a nice bench later, you'll be better off than trying to build the nice bench right out of the gate. Or you may not build the nice bench at all as you may find the cobbled bench works just fine ;).

[Mark Roderick]

You should do a couple of things before you buy a plane.

You should buy The Handplane Book. I think it's published by Taunton Press. You're going to learn 1,000 times more from reading that book cover to cover than you're going to learn on a website, even this one.

You should search the posts here. This and similar questions have been posted hundreds of times and there are multiple hundreds of intelligent, helpful responses.

When you've done those two things you'll still have some specific questions and people around here will be delighted to answer them for you.

[Douglas Brummett]

You should do a couple of things before you buy a plane.

You should buy The Handplane Book. I think it's published by Taunton Press. You're going to learn 1,000 times more from reading that book cover to cover than you're going to learn on a website, even this one.

You should search the posts here. This and similar questions have been posted hundreds of times and there are multiple hundreds of intelligent, helpful responses.

When you've done those two things you'll still have some specific questions and people around here will be delighted to answer them for you.

Perfect response :D
I am 100% in agreement. That book is a great starting point. Google is also your friend. There is a wealth of free information floating around cyberspace, just remember in some instances you get what you pay for :rolleyes:

[Prashun Patel]

I'm not a wise one, but am kind of in the same boat as you. I think a good starter purchase is a low angle block plane by Stanley ( 60 1/2) + Robert Larson honing guide (from Amazon), and a variety of fine grit sandpaper (220-2000). This is a low cost way to 'jump in'.

Here's my rationalle:

1) A LE block plane is fairly versatile but primarily designed for end grain work and edges. This is a good starting skill to learn and master. It'll teach you about blade depth and skew angles and touch and planing with and against the grain.

2) Sharpening is an essential skill to learn also. A 'cheap' guide and sandpaper will allow you to use the Scary Sharp method to achieve a reasonably honed edge with ease. Once you really appreciate these things, you might decide to upgrade to sharpening stones or a grinding wheel for speed.

You can easily spend $150 on a Lie Nielsen or Veritas plane (the Rolls Royces) but for a beginner I believe it's overkill. Once you become proficient on the Stanley (a Honda Accord) you'll appreciate the finer points of the pricier tools...

My 2cents.

[Bob Noles]

Save yourself time and money in the long run. Just pick up the phone and call Lee Valley Tools..... Ask for Rob :p:p:p

[Ken Garlock]

The first plane I bought was the LN 60 1/2 low angle, adjustable mouth, block plane. Yes, it will cost you around $160, but with simple care, it will last you a lifetime, and be the most used plane in your collection. Check out the price at Fine Tool Journal (http://www.finetoolj.com/LN/) What you see is what you pay, no shipping charges.:)

[Marcus Ward]

I think that 160$ for a low angle block plane is absurd. Buy a used vintage (VINTAGE!!!! The new ones are bad) Stanley 60 1/2 for 40$ or so and use that. I agree that the #5 offered above is another good choice. No matter what you're going to do, a #5 and a low angle block plane will have loads of utility in any job.

If you are okay working on tools and tuning them up, you can get by with cheap vintage stuff that needs love. If you're mechanically uh.. challenged, and have a hard time following directions found on the internet without step by step pictures and a guy standing next to you telling you what to do, then the 160$ plane might be a better buy, it's already perfect.

Also get a book, that is awesome advice.

And get an idea of what you want to build and then buy tools. If you just want to collect tools, that's fine too, but be honest with yourself.

I used to be a professional photographer. I'd say that 95% of the serious amateur photographers don't even like photography, they like the gadgets. They buy tons of very expensive equipment and use it to take the same poor pictures they'd take if they had a 10$ camera. They've got gadgetitis. It's a fine thing to have if you are honest with yourself. If you engage in willful self deception, it is not.

One time I was in the camera store I frequented and a guy came in, an anesthesiologist, who had quite an extensive and expensive collection of European camera equipment. He sold it all, told us he should have just bought Ansel Adams prints for the money he wasted in photography. :) Don't be that guy.

[John Dykes]

Wow - Marcus...

Welcome back!

[Marcus Ward]

Wow - Marcus...

Welcome back!

Thanks!!!!

[Lucas Bittick]

I just ordered "The Handplane Book." Thanks for that bit of advice!

[Robert Rozaieski]

Wow - Marcus...

Welcome back!
Ditto! ;) Glad to see you back!

[Ken Garlock]

I think that 160$ for a low angle block plane is absurd. Buy a used vintage (VINTAGE!!!! The new ones are bad) Stanley 60 1/2 for 40$ or so and use that. I agree that the #5 offered above is another good choice. No matter what you're going to do, a #5 and a low angle block plane will have loads of utility in any job.

Absurd, I think not. Absurd is buying a Festool xxxx (you fill in the blank) when there are many other brands that preform the same functions at 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost.

I prefer to wait an extra payday to get a high quality hand tool and know that it will outlast me. If you like to recondition vintage tools, that is fine with me. Last year I updated a Stanley/Bailey #7. By the time I was done, I had over $120 in the project. Now that is not near the $400+ that a new LN #7 would cost. But, it was a one time fun project.... I think I will stick with LN for the foreseeable future.

[Marcus Ward]

Updating is not restoring. I don't buy new irons. None of mine cost more than 20$ and that was for a new tote. And mine have already outlasted me. My vintage 1899 #8 is what, 109 years old? That's fine if you have the disposable income to blow 400 clams on a plane. I don't. And even if I did, I wouldn't. Someone's gotta be the voice of restraint around here with all the tool drool that goes on.

[Lu Seli]

Over 10 years ago I purchased an inexpensive Craftsman 7" Low-Angle Block Plane that was made in Sheffield, England- I can't remember exactly how much I paid, but I know it was under $30.00. I have tuned the sole and sides to a dead flat surface with a mirror-type finish by using various grits of sandpaper on a 1/2" thick glass plate . I also tuned the blade with sandpaper on glass - back of the blade and the bevel. This little plane works great. It's not as handsome as a Veritas or Lie-Nielsen Low-Angle Block Plane, but transparent curls come right off with a single stroke and without any chatter.

[Doug Shepard]

I'd also recommend a block plane as a good first one. There are lots of uses for it regardless of whether you end up looking to do more handtool work or not. Whether you go with a vintage Stanley or LV/LN is a matter of personal taste. I've got a 60-1/2 new non-vintage Stanley with adjustable mouth that works perfectly well and still gets used. Think I paid something like $45 new about 20 years ago. I've also got the LN version. The LN has less backlash in the adjustments, no chatter (where the Stanley occasionally does), more mass, thicker blade, can take a bit finer shavings, and just plain feels sexy compared to the Stanley. But for easing edges, flushing inlay, champfering, cleaning up saw marks, etc, the wood often cant tell the difference. End grain does fare a bit better with the LN though.

[Peter Quadarella]

I bought a Blum Jack plane as my first plane. I have since bought a Blum Jointer, an old Stanley #3, and a LN#102 block plane. I am very happy with my first purchase and would do it again. As a first time plane sharpener, Gary Blum's fixed angle jig was simple as pie (not to mention the plane worked flawlessly out of the box so I had a good reference point).

I am not affiliated with Gary in any way except as a happy customer. His site is at blumtoolco.com.

[Marcus Ward]

I gotta say, if you DO want to buy a rather more expensive current offering from one of the great tool makers we have these days (Both Lee Valley/Veritas and Lie Nielsen) I'd get a low angle jack. I use mine for TONS of stuff. I bought it because I couldn't find a comparable vintage one for less than the new Veritas (before you crucify me for owning new bling planes ;) ) They're wonderful, with the mouth closed up it'll plane almost anything. I can't comment on the Lie Nielsen version as I don't own one, it's probably as awesome as my Veritas is and almost the same price. That'd be a do-it-all plane and a great first plane. It'll be tuned perfectly so you'll know what perfection in a plane feels like in case you want to restore some older ones afterward. It cuts endgrain and everything else with ease, making it super versatile.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49708&cat=1,41182,52515

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=62

[John Keeton]

Someone's gotta be the voice of restraint around here with all the tool drool that goes on.
Now that is unAmerican! Dare say, it is unpatriotic to NOT spend all available discretionary funds on new tools. Someone's gotta be the voice of unfettered spendthrift around here!

[Phillip Pattee]

Charles,

The box you are planning to make for your telescope eye piece sounds like a great first project. I'm imagining the box is not large, so I think a low angle block plane may be a good first plane. I do not own any of the bling planes (like Marcus does ;)) but so many people sing their paises that I doubt you could go wrong with either the LN low angle block plane or the LV version. I have a vintage Stanley 60 1/2 that I picked up on eBay for about $28. I have only sharpened the blade on it and it works great.

May I suggest that you forego the dovetail jig purchase. A table saw and a router have so many uses that you will probably find them good investments, but if the only reason you want the router right now is to cut dovetails then I think you could skip that purchase too. I would have to rate my purchase of a dovetail jig as the dumbest woodworking tool purchase I ever made. Instead, buy a good dovetail saw, either western or Japanese. The saw will be so much more versatile, and when you hand cut your dovetails you will have more satisfaction in your work than I think you would ever get from the dovetail jig.

Phil

[Jim Becker]

The first plane I bought was the LN 60 1/2 low angle, adjustable mouth, block plane. Yes, it will cost you around $160, but with simple care, it will last you a lifetime, and be the most used plane in your collection.

Ditto for me...even as a tailed-tool user, my LN 60 1/2 gets used on every project and was a good introduction to what a "good" hand plane should feel like. Now I have several others, both "newly manufactured" and restored but that block plane is still my favorite.

[Pete Clifford]

Clint Jones is selling a Type 11 #5 for $40 over on www.woodnet.net\forums (http://www.woodnet.net\forums). He used to post here as well... He's a trusted dealer and THE expert on Stanley's.

Is Clint Jones no longer a member on this site? He posted good stuff at reasonable prices. However, I recently purchased some items from him, and tried PM'ing him to thank him but the PM bounced back.

[John Keeton]

A member search did not reflect a Clint Jones as a member.

As to the choice of planes, as with Jim, I am far from a neander, but have used my Dad's old "no name" (actually a Defiant??) block plane since I "borrowed" it from Dad about 40 years ago.

Then, several years ago I purchased a Stanley jack plane at an auction . Those two have been my mainstays until recently purchasing various Veritas planes.

I would add though, like others have stated, the art of sharpening and tuning a plane will add to the satisfaction level of owning any plane far more than the type of plane purchased. It is only in recent years that I have made the effort to take care of my planes properly. Big difference!! My appreciation level for even Dad's old block plane increased substantially.

Personally, I would purchase a good used low angle block plane, practice your sharpening and tuning technique, get some experience, and then buy use specific planes. Veritas and Lie Nielsen are first rate quality tools.

[Alan DuBoff]

Updating is not restoring. I don't buy new irons. None of mine cost more than 20$ and that was for a new tote. And mine have already outlasted me. My vintage 1899 #8 is what, 109 years old? That's fine if you have the disposable income to blow 400 clams on a plane. I don't. And even if I did, I wouldn't. Someone's gotta be the voice of restraint around here with all the tool drool that goes on.
I don't have a problem with vintage tools, I have many of them, but I have to say that I have a few LN planes also, and I appreciate the quality level that is achieved. They are easier to adjust than some of my old Stanleys, but not all of my Stanleys are sloppy. I have an old 60 1/2 I bought some years ago for $25, it's a very useful and tight plane that I use all the time. But I also use a LN rabbet block, payed about $120 on sale from Woodcraft. It's also an excellent tool.

For me I like both old and new tools, and have an appreciation for both of them for what they are. I appreciate not only the value but the tradition and classic styling of vintage tools. At the same time I make some of my own tools also, and I like those also. I think it's best not to get too hung up on any particular type of tools, they're all good! :D

[glenn bradley]

I have a couple old planes I am still wanting to get around to making workable. I really enjoy getting value out of older tools or just ones that are a great bargain. The planes still wait . . over there in that cabinet . . . patient fellows, I'll get there one day.

In the mean time I have been making furniture. I have realized how some things work for me and this is not the right way for someone else or meant to be. I go to work and do what I do to make money to pay people who do what they do for me if I have more money than time for that particular pursuit. In the case of used planes that require a bit of TLC; I have been enjoying using my new LV low angle block with a second higher angle blade.

I send a message to those used planes in the cabinet over there; Don't give up hope; my priorities shift and time is fleeting . . . we may yet meet again.

[Greg Cole]

Wow - Marcus...

Welcome back!

What he said!
Then again there hasn't been a good lively spirited debate about vintage planes lately either....:rolleyes:

Greg- Who just bought his first vintage stanley.

[Marcus Ward]

What he said!
Then again there hasn't been a good lively spirited debate about vintage planes lately either....:rolleyes:

Greg- Who just bought his first vintage stanley.

Oooh young Skywalker, down the darkside you must travel... ;)

[David Keller NC]

I think that 160$ for a low angle block plane is absurd. Buy a used vintage (VINTAGE!!!! The new ones are bad) Stanley 60 1/2 for 40$ or so and use that. I agree that the #5 offered above is another good choice. No matter what you're going to do, a #5 and a low angle block plane will have loads of utility in any job.

You're certainly entitled to this opinion, of course. But there are those of us that do most jobs in the shop with hand tools and have an appreciation for the rather steep performance improvement that these "high-dollar" tools offer. Don't get me wrong - I'm not one of those guys that turns up his nose and sniffs at buying a used tool. In fact, if they were totalled up, most of my hand tools exceed 100 years old, each, and some of them pre-date the Revolutionary War.

But I have both vintage type 11 Stanleys (and older ones, with a few Sweethearts mixed in) and Lie-Nielsen bench planes. Both the Lie-Nielsen low angle BP and the standard angle BP perform far better than their antique Stanley counterparts, which often chatter excessively in a cut (especially on end grain) and require greater force against the wood because of their lighter weight. The LN bench planes perform similarly better than their Stanley counterparts, even with new Hock blades and chipbreakers.

The only one that I haven't replaced with a L-N is the #6 Stanley fore plane. In this particular case, I use it as a roughing plane, I expect a rough cut, and lighter is better, so I stick with the Stanley.

My overall take is that you get at most what you pay for, and yeah, the $3500 Sauer and Steiner A6 smoother performs far better than the $350 L-N #4, though it could be argued not $3000 better. Nevertheless, it is sometimes the only handplane I have that will function on gnarly, highly-figured wood without tearing it out.

[Jim Becker]

Is Clint Jones no longer a member on this site? He posted good stuff at reasonable prices. However, I recently purchased some items from him, and tried PM'ing him to thank him but the PM bounced back.

As our Free Classifieds do not allow commercial business postings, Clint chose to discontinue posting here. You should be able to reach him via Woodnet to pass on your thanks.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Marcus Ward]

You're certainly entitled to this opinion, of course. But there are those of us that do most jobs in the shop with hand tools and have an appreciation for the rather steep performance improvement that these "high-dollar" tools offer.

I'm a mostly handtool user in the shop, getting more so every day. My point in this, and I think I've made this statement about 50 times, is that people new to handtools are often shocked at the prices asked for them. If I were told when I bought my first handplane that it'd cost more than a lunchbox planer and that that was the only way to go, I would never have started. I couldn't have afforded to. I try to be the balancing voice in this but because I must defend my position from hordes of people with loads of disposable income my position is pushed to the more and more extreme by having to rebut constantly against their arguments. If you're new to hand tools and want to give them a shot and aren't loaded, buy a used stanley. It may require more love and work on your part but they're great tools. You don't have to buy a 200$ plane to get started. You can, but you don't have to.

[Danny Thompson]

Vintage planes? Don't Do It!

Seriously, though, I am a big proponent of buying a plane is perfect working order your first time out. Marcus and others convinced me that one could be had from Clint and some others. So it comes down to this . . .

If you don't have a mentor close by, and you need your plane to work well in a reasonable amount of time, then by all means, invest in a Lee Valley, Lie Nielsen, or a vintage plane that has been made in perfect working order by an experienced restorer.

Good to hear form you, Marcus. (Nice bike! How much did you pay for that thing?)

[Greg Cole]

I hear a fuse being lit..... followed by moderator intervention and a padlock.:rolleyes:
I hate seeing a thread started by the OP head down a path that no longer offers him advice. If I'd have asked this when I got started on the slope, I'd either run from the Creek or run from the tools. Or both. Either alternative is not why we post to the OP's question. We want to help someone slide down the slope not run up it.
There is a barrier to entry on both side of this coin. One barrier is knowledge of how to tune and get the best functionality for little out of pocket in regards to vintage tools. The other side is to have functionalilty from the box with the barrier being price for the new offerings.
Same can be said for tailed tools too. Restoring a Walker Turner BS versus buying a new Euro BS.... same thing only different.
I started with new offerings. They're great tools, work very well and need no real TLC to get going with them. Now if I wanted to fill my tool till with those same two companies tools, it'd be worth more than my truck.:eek:
Decide what you want to do with tools (regardless of neander, tailed etc). Do some research on the net and a few books and then look into spending some money.
In all honesty, had I done more research up front I'd have found the vintage offerings more attractive. I spent first and learned about the tools via using them and researching after using them. Kinda learning backasswards, something I seem to be good at.:confused:

[Lucas Bittick]

I'm a mostly handtool user in the shop, getting more so every day. My point in this, and I think I've made this statement about 50 times, is that people new to handtools are often shocked at the prices asked for them. If I were told when I bought my first handplane that it'd cost more than a lunchbox planer and that that was the only way to go, I would never have started. I couldn't have afforded to. I try to be the balancing voice in this but because I must defend my position from hordes of people with loads of disposable income my position is pushed to the more and more extreme by having to rebut constantly against their arguments. If you're new to hand tools and want to give them a shot and aren't loaded, buy a used stanley. It may require more love and work on your part but they're great tools. You don't have to buy a 200$ plane to get started. You can, but you don't have to.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

As far as high-end planes, I don't see high-end power tools priced much lower. It is incorrect to compare the category of the tool; better to compare the quality tier. This reminds me of the complaints about how the iPhone had a ridiculous price. Well, if you compare it to a standard Motorola, it's a bit steep. But look at its tier-- its competition is the Blackberry-- both have about the same price point.

Also, I get a vibe that some folks see a plane as a simple machine, so it should therefore have a low price. Hmmm...

In the end, a top-tier tool is going to cost because of labor, materials, and brand scarcity, regardless of whether you can plug it in or not. To me, the greatest pleasure is having the right tool for the job and putting it to use, regardless of "tier." Having a $30 Stanley that sees use is a better situation that not using your LN, in my book. ;)

[David Keller NC]

"I hear a fuse being lit..... followed by moderator intervention and a padlock.:rolleyes: "

Nope - I'm staying out of it. My only thought is that I've had the personal experience of teaching a handplaning class where several beginners had purchased old Stanleys that just weren't usable without a good deal of tuning, and that was expertise they didn't have. One of the guys told me after the class that he had no concept of how an extremely small adjustment could make the difference between a plane that sings and one that would simply stall, chatter and refuse to cut.

I was up-front about this issue - I told the entire class that they could get a workable Stanley, and after putting a few hours into tuning it, they'd get a plane that would produce a surface on well-behaved wood that was indistiguishable from that produced by a Lie-Nielsen or a Lee Valley. The catch is that it was a fairly rare thing to find an old Stanley that didn't need some TLC to put right, and this required knowledge and the expenditure of shop time. Some chose to have me explain how to tune their Stanleys, some chose to walk over to the store counter and bought L-N #4s, and by the end of the class both sets got good results. The difference was the people with L-Ns spent about 30 minutes honing and cambering the iron, and the rest of the 5 hours learning how to 4-square and joint stock. The other guys spent most of the 5 hours tuning their planes. In the end, I suspect most of them were happy - the first set just wanted to know how to use a plane, the second set wanted to know how to work on tools, it was their choice.

But no, I didn't suggest to anyone that they buy a Norris or S&S infill for a couple of grand - I'll let them decide that on their own without any intervention from me. :D

[Marcus Ward]

Very good points. I suppose because of my experience and lack of heavy funding I push the more affordable route. When I got my hands on some vintage planes I had no experience tuning them up so I read some articles on the internet and just did it. They work great. My reference was a lee valley plane I had tried at a woodworking show a year before. I remember how it felt and aimed for that. Not everyone can go from a few descriptions on the internet to a working plane, I realize that too. I just want guys who want to try it to know that there's an option.

[Lucas Bittick]

David-- I appreciate you perspective-- as I am learning to tune your observations are helpful. I hope no one takes offense at my opinions, since they are only that-- opinions. That said, I hope you don't mind that I give you a ribbing for "staying out of it." ;)


Nope - I'm staying out of it. My only thought is that...

If you ever decide to jump into this discussion, then we are in some trouble! :D

[Dave Anderson NH]

I don't have any intention at this point of locking the thread. Yes, the thread has strayed from the OP questions, but that happens regularly on this forum and almost all others on the internet. As long as disagreements are polite and respectful and there is no name calling, flaming, profanity, or other prohibited behaviors, I don't interfere. Personally, I feel disagreements and differences in opinion are useful to the community and offer folks options and different perspectives. This forum would be diminished in usefulness if we all agreed with each other. Like most non scientific and mathematical things in life, there is often more than one right answer.

[Clay Thigpen]

I know for me just starting out I really can't see spending over $100 on a block plane, I would love to own a LV, LN or any of the new higher end planes (I've been considering the Anat sp? planes offered at Highland just because of the price) but right now I've got a workshop that needs to be cleaned out and set back up and other pressing issues as well. Vintage tools just seem the way to go for me. It might not be right for others that have the workspace ready and projects to start NOW but for me the cheaper more time consuming path doesn't bother me. ( I may have a line on a mentor though so that's a consideration too). I just got Mike Dunbar's Restoring,Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools on inter-library loan to see if I like it and I do. It's a good one to pick up, I don't know what's in the Hand plane book but that's on my list to check out too.

[David Keller NC]

"If you ever decide to jump into this discussion, then we are in some trouble! :D "

Ha - I can't resist that - I'm an engineer, and true to our reputation, it's rare to get "incomplete" (read: excessively wordy) information and opinions from me. It also helps that I'm old enough to have been forced to have taken and passed a typing class in high school. I hated it and thought it was useless at the time, but I'm sure glad for it now!

[Greg Cole]

A good lively debate is a great medium to get opposing points, ideas and good information flowing. I truly enjoy some of the information I pull from these threads. When it gets to the point that any facts cannot interrupt a good arguement.... well we all know where that goes (see anything Festool or Sawstop in the General Forum). I 110% agree with Dave, that this forum wouldn't be nearly what it is for content if we all agreed on anything, never mind everything.:D
More affordable anything is good if you ask me. Champagne taste and beer budget, proverbially and literally (well not literally I hate champagne).
One other suggestion I have for the OP is to see if there's a Creeker or WW'ing club of some sort near you and pay them a visit. There's a bunch to be learned off the 'net and print.. but you really need to put the tool in your hands and use one as well.
About a year ago there was a loooooong very interesting thread about new versus vintage... went on for days n days... and was one of the most entertaining threads I've ever read. Then again I think there was talk about cigars, whiskey, beer., food... oh yeah hand planes... all good stuff!

[Jim Becker]

Ya, know...we are all very blessed that we have so many wonderful choices when it comes to tools. There is no one "best"...just preference. That's illustrated pretty keenly in this thread. Some folks like to buy only new, contemporary tools; some folks prefer to only acquire vintange tools. Some, like me, have a mixture that we are perfectly happy with. (Well, I'm not happy with the #26 transitional I own, but that's the tool's fault. :D )

[Marcus Ward]

Oh I have a mixture. I couldn't find a #62 for a reasonable price so I bought the lee valley and it's ohhh buttah smooth.

Take that #26 you don't like, open the mouth up a bit, stick a camber on the iron, and use it as a scrub plane. That's what I do with my #30, works awesome. Way better than the actual #40 I own.

[Greg Cole]

Take that #26 you don't like, open the mouth up a bit, stick a camber on the iron, and use it as a scrub plane. That's what I do with my #30, works awesome. Way better than the actual #40 I own.

Exactly what I mean. Good stuff there....

[Alan DuBoff]

Oh I have a mixture. I couldn't find a #62 for a reasonable price so I bought the lee valley and it's ohhh buttah smooth
And this is different than spending $160 for a block plane? :confused:

[Jim Becker]

Take that #26 you don't like, open the mouth up a bit, stick a camber on the iron, and use it as a scrub plane. That's what I do with my #30, works awesome. Way better than the actual #40 I own.

It's problem is that it will not stay flat...it has an incessant twist that will not go away. So I've pretty much decided to use it as a...decoration...and get another Jack-sized plane when I have a project that demands it. I could build another body for it, but that would sacrifice the nice stamped markings. I didn't pay much for it, so it's not a big deal at this point.

And I need to learn to use my planes more effectively...technique, if you will. The Stanley #4 I have (refurbished by Terry Hatfield) and LN #4 bronze I recently "stole" from another SMC member will get the teaching roles... ;) ...when I have time, of course. This darn horsie stuff is sapping my shop time big time!

[Marcus Ward]

It's different in that if I had found a #62 for $35, I would have bought that instead. I needed a particular tool for a job and the cheapest one was the veritas. The cheapest #4 is not a lie nielsen.

[David Keller NC]

Jim - Comment about the "transitional" Stanleys. I've a lot of wooden tools, mostly made of beech (as the body on the transitional Stanleys usually were). The dates span from before the Revolutionary war to sometime in the 1920's. Something I've noticed is that the late 19th-century beech tools have an increasing preponderance of "figured" grain (that is, grain's not perfectly straight and without defects). These are the tools that move around the most with even slight changes in humidity.

The earlier ones are generally stable, and an examination of the grain shows really careful stock selection. Based on the near clear-cutting of the US mainland late in the 19th century, I'm not terribly surprised about this.

But if you choose, the transitional Stanleys will come apart without mucking up the original wood, and a new sole can be made out of something really stable and cheap - Purpleheart is a superb choice. THe original bottom can just be set aside to be re-assembled if you ever decide to sell it.

[Greg Cole]

[quote=Jim Becker;951072]LN #4 bronze I recently "stole" from another SMC member will get the teaching roles... ;)[quote]
Can't speak for the Stanley #4, but I have that same LN smoother and you will love that baby. Get'er nice n sharp, slight camber and micro bevel and swwwwooooooosh you have a finish akin to glass (your Rotex will be envious)

Greg

[Josh Peterson]

Gary Blum's planes are terrific, a really innovative plane design. I can't recommend them highly enough.

[Don Dorn]

I went through trying to fettle a couple of old Stanleys. I thought they worked very well until I tried a friends LV and a new standard was set. I can't easily afford them either but now I save the money and buy LV or LN. I'll admit though, that my fettleing skills are not high as I never wanted to work with tools themselves.

I'm done bying bench planes now having what I use - but I justified it a different way (maybe just wishful thinking). I figured over the long run, the LN and LVs are actually cheaper. I won't be buying this or that brand and aftermarket irons hoping it does what I want. Also, when I'm done using them which hopefully is a couple more decades, I can sell them probably for what I paid, or even a little more based on potential inflationary costs and how well they retain their value. If I'm gone, I have a list for my wife to know what they are worth and can get the money back. In the meantime, I'm enjoying using premium planes that behave exactly like I think they will, time after time.

For those that say that money could have been invested - you're right, but money isn't making money lately and even for the forseeable future. I'd just as soon use any interest I would have made in the shop.

I do respect those who can fettle an old Stanley and bring life into it. However, I havn't read many cases where they feel they perform as well as the LV and LN. If you are a handtool woodworker, they are tools of the trade.

[James Owen]

One very good reason to buy a high-dollar, high-quality plane is to learn what "right" looks like. If you choose vintage planes afterwards, then you have a standard for measuring performance after tune-up. Obviously, for many more-or-less straight-grained, friendly woods, a well-tuned vintage plane will work perfectly well, but when it comes to interlocking, curly, swirly-grained woods, then the higher quality (and, unfortunately, higher dollar) LNs, LVs, etc. return the investment with results that are difficult or impossible to get with a lesser quality plane.

My recommendation for that one or two new planes would be either (or both of) the LN low angle adjustable mouth block plane and/or the #4-1/2 smoothing plane. They are both superb planes that work right out of the box, and you'll use either of/both of them for nearly every project.

If you decide to go with vintage planes, get a copy of Mike Dunbar's book, Restoring, Tuning and Using Classic Woodworking Tools. It has everything you need to know about tuning up planes (and a bunch of other Neander tools).

FWIW, I use both new LNs and vintage Stanleys in my shop; they each work fine for what they respectively do best.

[Josh Rudolph]

I hope Charles has settled on one by now...this thread is a little over 2 years old. :D

[Andrew Gibson]

It's nice to be part of a forum where people don't get all bent out of shape when new members dredge up old threads.

I know I did it a time or 2 when I was learning the rules of the Interweb.

[Jim Koepke]

I hope Charles has settled on one by now...this thread is a little over 2 years old. :D

I had the same thought. I noticed the thread before noticing the age.

Amazing what my learning curve has been over the last two years.

jtk

[Teo Cafengiu]

Absurd is buying a Festool xxxx (you fill in the blank) when there are many other brands that preform the same functions at 1/2 to 1/3rd the cost.

Isn't this like a red herring? Throwing in the merits of a power tool into a hand tool discussion? In any case, when someone makes a claim like this, are they taking into account the cost of their time as well or just considering the raw price of the tool? I own a Festool tracksaw packaged with their vac system and my experience is that it has performed better, faster, more accurately, more dust free,cleaner cutting than any of the 4 other "similar" saws I've owned while rehabbing this 90 year old house. I've dimensioned lumber with it and managed putting off buying a tablesaw for about 2 years due to its versatility and accuracy. And if I ever decide I want to sell it I know for a fact that I can recoup a good amount of my investment back. I could go on but I'd rather get back to the shop. These discussions are like asking 10 woodworkers what the absolute best way to sharpen is. You'll get like 15 answers. And 14 and a half of them will be right. Pretty entertaining stuff...
I'm new to the Creek and I ran across this thread while trying to find some advice on an old hand plane I'm trying to justify saving. For me it's all good though: hand tools, power tools--as long as they get used, and I get stuff built. I used to collect more than build--had more room, more income; but now for me there's been a fundamental change: every tool I own has to justify their existence in my limited space. Either it gets used or it's out. I would be curious to find out what the journey has been like for the person originally posing the plane question.