Help me improve my turning photos please....

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Here's the latest thing off my lathe and the first photos using my new photo tent and lights. The form of this was dictated by the way it was cut with the chain saw. I'm not totally in love with the form but it is special. I left the sides thick to insure the bark remained intact. This wood, maple burl 9"x4 1/2" , was given to me by a fellow Creeker. It came from a tree in his Dad's yard. Unforturnately his Dad died some months later. I managed to get this out of the piece of wood. My intentions are to return it to the person who gave it to me. The finish is 2 coats of Minwax Antique Oil.
Critique the NE and the photos. Brian and Tamara...I would sure appreciate your comments and suggestions about the photos. You saw the piece while you were here. I used my new donut chuck to turn the tenon off.

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[larry merlau]

then yur pics will be just right..FLAT:) looks good there fitz..what kind of burl was that?

[Scott Donley]

Ken, Looking good ! Only comment would be to increase your depth of field (F stop ) You seem to be losing some sharpness from near (your focus point) to far. Who would have thought the vortex would include a new camera and photo tent :)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Larry,

That's maple burl.

[David Walser]

Ken,

You did a very good job with a very special piece of wood. I'm sure the family it's going to will cherish it.

As for critiques and suggestions, I only have a few: I think you did right in keeping the form simple and without embellishment. The wood is the star and your design does not get in the way. I would have preferred that the outside curve of the bowl to have been more rounded -- closer to the inside. You said that wasn't possible due to the way the blank was cut from the tree. I think you got the finish right. It allows us to see the depth and beauty of the burl without being so glossy the bowl has a plastic look.

Scott mentioned the most serious (not all that serious) short coming with the photos -- lack of depth of field. Your camera may not allow you to adjust the f-stop. In that case, you might try shooting from farther back and then zooming in with the lens or cropping afterward. If the bowl is 9" across, you need a depth of field of at least 9". That's easier to achieve if the camera is 18' from the subject than it is if the camera's 18" from the subject.

Another small issue is that in the profile pics we can see the edge of the table the bowl is sitting on. For some reason, this is distracting. (Worse, the tablecloth is in perfect focus, making the out of focus base look worse than it otherwise might.) Perhaps you could have moved the bowl farther back and/or taken the picture from a slightly higher angle. Another approach would have been to use a mason jar ring (or something similar) underneath the tablecloth to raise the bowl up.

Those are very minor quibbles. You did a very good job. In particular, I thought you lit the bowl very well.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Ken - great job on the bowl! Beautiful wood!

Photos: really like the lighting and the contrast between the wood and background. Focus is usually the biggest issue with all of us. How do you get the correct depth of field with a camera not really designed to do that? David's suggestion of moving the camera back is the easiest fix but then you have to depend on the zoom capabilities of your camera - if there are any! Next step is software and it's ability to enhance focus, contrast and color. Overall, I think you did good on the photos and hope Brian can offer some constructive comments on photos for us all!

[Mike Vickery]

The piece looks very nice.

Besides the depth of field that has been mentioned previously. I think you need more white space in you pictures. Try haveing the bowl only take up about 1/3 of the total picture.

[Ken Glass]

Ken,
I think your pictures just took a giant leap forward. The Maple burl is stunning and the color really suits the wood. The form is most pleasing and I like the thickness of the piece, because it shows so much of the burled bark. It adds a real dimension to it. You could not of shown it better. Very well done my friend.

[Phillip Bogle]

Ken: I would agree with everything said to this point. You may be having a bit of trouble with two areas on the photos. Are you using a tripod? If yes then the next item would be auto focus. The modern auto focus units have problems with exact focus on objects that are darker or lighter than mid toned. Some times I have to switch to manual (I hate doing it) or focus on a different spot and hold the button half way down then re aim before exposing. As tempting as it might be the auto everything on your camera is not a good idea for still work.

I love the wood. Looks like you made the best of what you had with all factors considered in. I'm sure they will love it. Good job.

[Toney Robertson]

Ken,

First off the bowl looks great. Lovely wood and your form is just right to show it off.

I have learned much about photos since I started turning bowls.

1. Ditch the pedestal that you have your bowl setting on. I did the same thing when I started taking pictures and I thought they were crazy about getting rid of it but after following the advice they were right.

2. Iron your back round to remove the wrinkles. Once again a mistake I made. The wrinkles are a distraction to the subject matter.

3. If you can afford it, purchase a variegated back round. Really makes a difference. I would like to get a darker one than I have now but I just have not got around to it.

4. As mentioned - depth of field. Can you set your camera to a aperture setting? I have been experimenting with my Canon G2 and 6.3 seems to do a good job with keeping everything in focus from the front to the back of the bowl.

5. I assume you are using a tripod. Also use the timer function if you are not.

6. Use manual focus. I put a piece of tape on the bottom of my light tent. For profile shots in particular, I printed some words on a piece of paper that I set at the piece of tape. I focus on this in the manual mode, so I know exactly where my focus point is. I then replace the piece of paper with my bowl.


7. Experiment. The great thing about digital photography is that you are not wasting film and money. Take A LOT of pictures with different settings, keep track of which photograph was taken with what settings and keep the good ones noting which settings give you the best results.

Good luck, I hope some of this helps.

Toney

[Bernie Weishapl]

Ken that is a beautiful piece. The burl is a fantastic piece of wood. Photos look good to me and you have definitely improved. I will will leave the crtique to the experts of which I am not.

[Curt Fuller]

First off, that's a beauty of a bowl and some amazing burl. As for the photo, it looks like you got a tent very similar to the one I have. The background they send with them is some sort of nylon material that comes permanently wrinkled. I personally think the wrinkles in the background are a distraction. The graduated tint backgrounds that you can buy make a very professional looking photo. I've never gotten one but I use a full sheet of watercolor paper for my background. A large sheet of a light gray colored paper works too. I let the camera do its thing on the auto setting and then use Google Picasa for photo editing. I usually just hit the "I'm feeling lucky" button, sometimes add a little fill light, and crop.

[Dick Strauss]

Ken,
You are off to a great start!!!

To add to Curt's suggestion...a gray background and a black background would be good additions. Usually you want a light background for dark pieces and a light background for dark pieces to give good contrast. For your piece and other midtoned pieces, you may have to experiment to see what background looks best. The gray background is also good for calibrating white balance if your camera has a manual adjustment.

IMHO photo matte board is one of the best materials for backdrops in photo tents. You can buy a whole sheet for $5 and get it to look graduated via lighting. It is a little stiff out of the box but a light spray of water on the back of the matte board with make it pliable. Then, once it dries it will hold its curved shape pretty well. I also have mine attached to my tent frame to keep it from shifting during shooting.

Thanks,
Dick

[Jon Lanier]

Ken,

Tha turning looks great. F Stop could be reset... if you have a Macro setting you might want to play with that a little bit.

I have found just taking a bunch of pic's, watching your setup.. then you'll find your correct settings.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Thanks folks for the comments. I've spent part of the day trying different photographic setups on the camera trying to improve the photography.

I know this camera has a "macro" setting. I'm going to have to break out the owners manual.

This piece of wood was cut with a chain saw and it was pyramidal in shape. Where the bottom of the bowl is, was a very sharp point. I actually turned this last fall on my Jet Mini VS but decided I didn't like the form. My wife and several others said I ought to finish it. The burled bark within the piece was so pretty once I turned the outside, I didn't want to reduce the depth of the bowl. I left the walls thick so the outside bark would be less likely to detach.
I'm not overly happy with the form but that form does maximize the displaying of the burl and bark inclusions.

[David Walser]

...I know this camera has a "macro" setting. I'm going to have to break out the owners manual.

Ken,

I doubt you want to use the "macro" setting for the bowl. You'd use the macro setting for taking a picture of a fly sitting on the edge of the bowl. (With a decent macro lens, you could fill the entire frame of the picture with nothing but the fly's eyes.) For the bowl, you want a lens with a "natural" perspective. Unless you're using a DSLR (a camera with interchangeable lenses), the non-macro mode should serve you fine -- providing you can set the f-stop and/or the distance between the camera and subject to get the depth of field you need. Note: Sometimes, for artistic affect, you'll want a narrow depth of field. This can be used to make some part of the picture "jump" and it can create the illusion of depth. I doubt that you'll want this affect when taking a picture of a bowl, but you might when doing a portrait.

As for the form, you did the best you could with what you had to work with. It is a wonderful bowl. Please forgive the mild criticism I made of the exterior form.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

David,

The camera I'm using is a Nikon D40x and is a DSLR. I tried using the Aperature Priority mode later this afternoon but didn't see a significant improvement. Maybe I need to take the F-stop even further than I did. There is little doubt in my mind that the camera is capable of a whole lot better photograph than I captured here today.

I didn't take anybody's criticism of the form or the bowl too seriously. I want folks to tell me how they see it. That is the only way I can ever expect to correct or improve my form and/or finishes.

When I ask for a critique that's exactly what I want. That bowl sat in my shop for over a year because I wasn't really happy with the form. While I think that form is okay, it is not my favorite by a long shot. I was just explaining why it didn't have more curve to it's form. The wood was too pretty to throw out. The wood will mean something to the folks to whom I'm going to return it.

[David Walser]

Well, Ken, the Nikon D40x is certainly a quality camera. (I won't get into the Canon/Nikon debate, because I'd be forced to say "Pentax" and everyone would say, "Huh?") Try setting your aperture to smallest setting allowed by your lens -- which, if you're using the 18-55mm kit lens would be somewhere between f/22 and f/38 (depending on where in the 18-55mm range the lens is set). This will give you your maximum depth of field. With use of a tripod, you can hold the camera steady for what I imagine will be a very long shutter opening.

I'm making the suggestion that you use the smallest possible aperture just so you can get a better feel for depth of field. A one or two stop change in setting is not all that noticeable. Once you've taken a few at the max setting, try a few with the setting changed to an f stop somewhere in the mid to low teens. Then try something around 6. Closely comparing the three sets of pictures (changing nothing but the f stop and the shutter speed) should give you a better feel for how you'll want to set up the camera for your turnings. For your bowl, you want the foreground (the table cloth) to be out of focus and the background to be out of focus. Unless you're trying to emphasize some detail, such as a carved band, you'll most likely want the rest of the turning in sharp focus. At the end of the day, I suspect you'll end up somewhere around and f stop of 12.

Good luck. Photography can be (almost) as addicting as turning.

[Neal Addy]

A Pentax? Huh???? ;)

Oh no, Ken! Say it ain't so! You're slipping into the photography vortex?

My deepest sympathies. When you reach the bottom you'll find me there sobbing.

David's comments are spot-on. You've got the right camera for the job. Try his suggestion of playing with the F-stop settings. Aperture mode should allow you to make changes to the F-stop without having to worry about other settings.

Good luck!

[Brian Brown]

Ken,

First, that piece turned out really nice. It is amazing how much the finish helped. Second, sorry to be so long answering your questions, Work has really been kicking our backsides, and I had a terrible time getting the upload manager to work. As for a critique of your pictures, nice job, especially for your first effort. You got some good comments from others, so I won't repeat most of them. As for the depth of field issue, you need to look at the purpose of the images. If you are applying for a juried show, I agree that the depth of field should be increased. I personally like a bit shallower depth of field, if I am doing the image just for my own personal use and record. The lack of focus in the background keeps your attention on the foreground. The background gives support to the foreground without taking attention away from the foreground. It keeps your attention on one set of details.

As for lighting, viewed from above, your setup looks like this.

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Try moving your lights to this position, with the rear light higher than the front.

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You want the intensity of the front light less than the rear. Because your lights both have the same output you can vary the intensity by pulling the front light further from the tent. You will need to use the front tent panel that has a slit for your lens. Now that you have a difference in light intensities, you will start to see some shadows on your piece. Remember, you are trying to depict a three dimensional subject with a two dimensional media. Your best bet to create the 3D effect is to use shadows. Having shadows starts to creat a look of roundness, and dimension, both inside and out. Having the rear light more intense pushes the shadows forward, enhancing the 3D feel.

Here are some examples:

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The vase is slightly different, because you can't see the inside, and the rear light is more to the side. Also, the lights are on the opposite sides from my diagram above but the idea is the same. Just experiment, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask. Just a note, with a photo tent, it may not be necessary to use the front light at all.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Thanks Brian!

I'll try some of the different lighting techniques along with the depth of field...F-stop changes.

[David Walser]

Brian,

Thank you for your very thoughtful response to Ken's question. I learned a lot.