engine hoist over rafters?

[Tyler Davis]

I need to lift my planer on to its stand. It is about 500 lbs according to the manual. Two of us could barely get it out of my truck and now it is sitting on the ground.

I see two items at Harbor Freight that look like they would do the job.

A winch-type hoist:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44006

or a floor-type shop crane
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93840

I've never used either one. Which would be better? How many rafters would I have to span to use the winch to support a 500 lb load?

The shop crane lists the height as 82" to 94" - does this mean I can only lift it 12" higher than the starting point? The stand is higher than that, so would I not be able to place the planer on that stand with the crane?

[John Ricci]

Tyler, I have a 2 ton version of the floor crane that I used to lift my cabinet saw onto its base. The floor models are a lot more flexible in my mind than the rafter mounted type as you are able to move the load around ( I used part of the packing crate to sit on the legs of the crane to provide a base for the saw to sit on) as you need to. The crane will reach from floor level up to 94" depending how far you have the lifting arm moved out of the tube. Keep in mind that the capacity of the hoist decreases the farther out you set the arm but in my case at full ext. the capacity is still 1/2 ton for the 2 ton model, well within the limits for a 550lb. cabinet saw. I would say go with the floor model but get the 2 ton version. My .02Cdn.

J.R.

[Daniel Hillmer]

I ditto everything that John said.

In addition, I own the exact model floor crane you have pictured, and also bought it at harbor freight last year, it worked fine for moving and setting up my new grizzly G0490 jonter and G0453 15" Planer (http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Planer/G0453)

Also keep in mind that it’s not a good idea to put a stress on your garage rafters, it can eventually cause structural problems in your garage roof, from my experience most rafters in a garage are only 2 x 6”s and they are not there for purpose of holding a hoist they are only there to hold your roof up, unless they were re inforced for intent to install a joist, I would stay away from that idea.

You will need to buy a set of heavy duty nylon straps for the crane, harbor freight also carries them. Make sure they are long enough to go around your biggest piece of equipment.

[Pete Kurki]

Don't you run into issues about getting the legs of the floor crane around the larger equipment you wish to lift? I imagine you can only lift equipment that fits between the legs of your floor crane. I think my G5850Z planer for example might be too wide.

Pete

[David Epperson]

The shop crane lists the height as 82" to 94" - does this mean I can only lift it 12" higher than the starting point? The stand is higher than that, so would I not be able to place the planer on that stand with the crane?

No it means
(from the ad you linked to)

Height capacities: 1 ton @ 82", 1/4 ton @ 94";
In stead of the wire rope hoist winch. I'd opt for one of the chain hoists anyway. There are just too many issues with wire rope. (And I've worked in the Hoist/crane industry before). I have a very nice little chain ratchet hoist that would do the job. But I would also not use the rafters to lift from. For you application the floor crane would probably be best..provided that the legs are wide enough to straddle the base.

[Tyler Davis]

thanks guys

I will go with the 2-ton floor crane and a set of heavy nylon straps

any insight on the leg splay is welcome - they don't list a dimension for that

[David Epperson]

thanks guys

I will go with the 2-ton floor crane and a set of heavy nylon straps

any insight on the leg splay is welcome - they don't list a dimension for that
Figure on around 14" to 18" inside at the narrow end and 32" or so a the widest. If your planer stand is on the order of 24" wide at the base, then you should be able to manuver the hook over the center of the base.

If that doesn't work then you might look at renting 2 froor cranes from a local tool rental place.

[Daniel Hillmer]

Don't you run into issues about getting the legs of the floor crane around the larger equipment you wish to lift? I imagine you can only lift equipment that fits between the legs of your floor crane. I think my G5850Z planer for example might be too wide.

Pete

Yes that is an issue, and no, your equipment does not have to fit within the legs, unless it is so huge or wide that it would be way too far away from the center of gravity of the crane while lifting.

I was able to lift an over 200 pound, 6 foot long jointer bed with this crane, the G0453 15" Planer (http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Planer/G0453)and the G0490 8" Jointer with Parallelogram Beds (http://www.grizzly.com/products/8-Jointer-with-Parallelogram-Beds/G0490)with this crane without too much trouble.

The key is, you need long enough straps to both go around the equipment, AND reach the crane, AND be very careful when you start lifting, and most important, lift slowly AND carefully make sure that the equipment you are lifting is not so far away from the center of gravity of the crane, that it would cause the crane to tip over.

If you lift slowly AND watch carefully what is going on, you will be able to lift and lower the piece before you get into trouble.

The key is, to PAY ATTENTION when you are lifting and watch both your machine AND the jack to make sure you know what is going on.

Also know if what you are lifting falls outside the area of the legs, it will swing and rock back and forth a bit once it gets just past the legs and up in the air; it if it swings too much you are in trouble. How to know if the piece will swing a lot and tip over, I don't know how to tell you that, other than to use your best judgment and common sense and be careful.

You just have to use your best judgment and common sense when doing this.

If you are faint of heart using this kind of lift, you might be better off getting three or four strong guys to help you set the machine up instead of using a lift.

[Daniel Hillmer]

Figure on around 14" to 18" inside at the narrow end and 32" or so a the widest. If your planer stand is on the order of 24" wide at the base, then you should be able to manuver the hook over the center of the base.

If that doesn't work then you might look at renting 2 froor cranes from a local tool rental place.

On the Dimensions, I own this exact same model made by Central Hydraulics, Item 93840.

I will give you exact measurements (unless someone else beats me to it) - I am straightening up my garage today, later today I will pull it out and open it up and give you an exact measurement. I need to anyway I'm buying a table saw and will (hopefully) use this to set it up.

Check back here this evening and I will post the dimensions...

[Ken Garlock]

Hi Tyler.

Several years ago I bought a hydraulic lift table from Northern Tools. When I needed to place the business part of my 8" jointer on its base, I used the lift table to move it across the shop and level with the top of the cabinet. A lift table can come in handy when you don't expect it to. When I took delivery on my 200# plus bench top, I slid the top off my pickup truck bed and on to the table. From there I uncrated it and moved it into the shop. Also when I took delivery of my table saw, about 500#, I used the lift table to move it into the shop.

They are handy to have around, but somewhat of an elephant to store.

Some thing to think about....:cool:

[Mike Wilkins]

I used a chain hoist connected to a 1" steel bar lying over 2 of the 2 X 8 ceiling joists to lift a 600# jointer/planer machine. The framing did not make even a squeak when it was stressed, although I did not get more than 3 feet from the wall.
Having seen the lifts that other have described in this post, and the price point of a Harbor Freight unit, I might lean in that direction. It seems more versatile, especially with wheels.
I just used what I had (and the cost was good).

[Ray Newman]

If this is going to be a one-time-use of the engine hoist, I'd look into renting one.

About six years ago, I rented one for just shy of US $30.00 for an all day rental.

[Rob Damon]

Before ordering tools for my shop, I picked up the 2-ton engine hoist from Northern tools (on sale)

(http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200305213_200305213

and a pallet jack.

So far I have used them to unload from my utility trailer several large tools:

(PM2000,PM2700,PM2800,PM209,PJ882,SC50250,Delta18"RAS,IR 2stage/80 gal. air compr.)

The heaviest being 770lbs.

It did take some planning and some wood blocking to get them safely down on the floor.

If I had to do it all over, I would have gotten one of the structural engineers at the office where I work, to design a beam that could have spanned my shop and taken a 1 ton load into the design of my new shop building. But too late now.

So if you are just planning on one or two tool purchases, rental of an engine lift sounds like the way to go.

Rob

[Alan DuBoff]

Everyone will have their way of doing this I guess, and I've used a chain hoist a couple weekends ago to lift a 1200# Nichols mill of a pickup, that only costs $49.95 at Harbor freight. (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=996) It worked fine.

I have one of the 2 ton floor model (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=7620), and have lifted a lot of stuff with it, I find it more convenient than having to rely on a overhead support, but in a pinch you can build a gantry type crane using a chain hoist fairly easily. We built one over the back of a pickup, lifted the mill off, and eased it down to a pallet.

The problem with the floor models is storage, and yes, you can get the folding model and save space, but they are not nearly as sturdy, and the legs don't extend out on many of them. That could be important to the piece being lifted, depending on the shape, if you go in from the side on the jointer that would work.

For that matter, you might think about renting one so you don't have to store it. That is if you will not have a use for it. I have a lot of heavy machines from the 40s, so it's nice to have on hand. :)

[Ted Shrader]

Tyler -

I would go the engine hoist route. You can take the hoist to the planer. After you make the lift, you can move it around some if required. If this is the only lift you have planned for the near future, rental is the way to go.

I am breaking out my engine hoist (exact one pictured) to unpack a Steel City 8" jointer as soon as it arrives.

Regards,
Ted

[Brian Backner]

I would agree that an engine hoist has a major limitation when moving anything that cannot fit between the splayed legs. I've also found them to be unstable when you are lifting something close to their maximum ratings.

As an example, I once had to lift and move a large granite surface plate - close to 1700# with the stand. I was able to have the legs of the stand straddle the legs of the hoist and, once lifted, I used a heavy duty engine balancer to get it stabilized - NOT. I moved the combination no more than 18", and though I moved it verrrrrrryyyyyy slowwwwlllly, the weight caused the hoist to tip and the the surface plate pinned me against the wall. I was lucky that my right arm was free as I was able to use my cell phone to call a friend to come and get me. Of course, he took the time to snap some photos of my predicament.

I'll grant that most of the folks on this list have no need of moving such heavy weights (that plate was not the heaviest thing in my shop - I have a massive vertical milling machine that is nearly two tons), but anything that is more than one or two people can safely lift - such as a cabinet saw or a big jointer - can be problematic.

I started to consider building a jib crane for my garage, but had yet to make any decisions when I recently ran across a rolling gantry crane that someone built based upon an article in an old issue of Home Shop Machinist magazine.

The design is inspired. It consists of two end supports with a heavy S-12 x 6" I beam connecting them that also carries a trolley and chainfall. The beam is long enough to span the width of a utility trailer and narrow enough to fit through the garage door. The really clever innovation, however, is the use of high lift hydraulic jacks on each end support to allow the beam of the gantry to be raised by about 20"!

In use this would allow you to roll the crane out into the driveway - raise the crane to its full height - move it into position over your trailer and to lift whatever goody you have in it and roll it and the crane back towards the garage (you could also just pull the trailer out from under the crane). You then would lower the hydraulic jack enough to allow passage back into the garage for final placement of your latest tool acquisition.

To build the thing will take good metal working and welding skills, but it you have a lot of old and/or heavy "arn", it could be indispensible.

I've tried to attach a pdf of the construction article - unfortunately, it far exceeds the size limit for posting but you can download it from this chat list post: http://bbssystem.com/viewtopic.php?t=1631

Brian

[John Hixon]

I think someone drew attention to it, but the height spec says you can lift to one height maximum at 1/4 ton and another height maximum at 1 ton. This is because the boom is at different lengths for different max weight and the length effects the maximum height.

[Daniel Hillmer]

thanks guys

I will go with the 2-ton floor crane and a set of heavy nylon straps

any insight on the leg splay is welcome - they don't list a dimension for that


OK Sorry about that Tyler, I got side tracked on something else last night, here are the dimensions I promised you for my Central Hydraulics Item 93840, which I bought at Harbor Freight July ’07…

The footprint for the unit in folded up position is 29.5” x 21.5”

For the splay of the legs, at the narrowest point, it's 17”. The splay at it’s widest point is 32”. When the legs are unfolded, they entire unit measures 64” long.

When the boom is fully extended and parallel to the ground, the splay of the legs at which the hook is directly over, measures 28”

Hope that helps.

[Tyler Davis]

thank you Daniel and everyone else for your help. I bough the 1-ton foldable crane, which is plenty for my planer. Me and a buddy got it lifted and into the garage no problem - a heck of a lot safer than deadlifting.

Haven't decided whether I will keep it- may break it down and store it behind the shed as I now how 3 piece sof machinery that can't be deadlifted and my friend may replace his clutch sometime in the future...

[Daniel Hillmer]

thank you Daniel and everyone else for your help. I bough the 1-ton foldable crane, which is plenty for my planer. Me and a buddy got it lifted and into the garage no problem - a heck of a lot safer than deadlifting.

Haven't decided whether I will keep it- may break it down and store it behind the shed as I now how 3 piece sof machinery that can't be deadlifted and my friend may replace his clutch sometime in the future...

I would keep it, you can always throw a tarp over it behind the shed. You will almost never use it but man, when you need it you will really need it. Also remember if you return it or sell it, you will still have to either rent another one or buy another one if you ever buy new equipment, or move.

I almost returned mine last year, but decided to keep it, and with a new machine coming in soon It will be handy.

[Ted Shrader]

Tyler -

Keep it. Mine is broken down and the pieces are in the rafters of my shed. Keeps it out of the way and set up is really quick. You never know when (or what) you will need it for next.

Regards,
Ted

[John Schreiber]

How many rafters would I have to span to use the winch to support a 500 lb load?
I know Tyler's got this worked out, and a folding crane is more convenient, but what's wrong with suspending a chain haul from the rafters? I would figure two 250 lb guys could stand on the same rafter with no problem, would a winch be any different?

[John Hixon]

The two guys are going to have their weight spread out by quit a bit. The chain would have its forces concentrated in one small spot. Kind of like hitting a tree with a sledge hammer vs hitting it with an axe.

[Chris Barnett]

Have the two ton engine hoist from Northern and used it to lift my PM209HH and G0514X2...suprisingly it does go high enough. Made an extension for the boom so I can reach out another four feet or so, but the capacity drops accordingly.