A Different kind of Planer Question

[Paul Greathouse]

Next month I will be buying a 20" Grizzly Planer. My decision to go with Grizzly is based on price and all the great reviews here at the Creek. Which of the two Grizzly's I go with is still up in the air but that is not what my question is about.

For those of you that have used both, what I want to know is, do I really need the spiral head or would the 4 blade head be all I need?

It will be used primarily on Red Oak, White Oak, Pecan and Poplar. I will probably never use any exotic wood species, we just don't have people with that kind of money in my area.

I get my lumber rough so the planer will be an important tool. Don't laugh, but for several years now, I have been using a little Delta lunchbox planer with good results, its just so slow. I can get a "babys butt" smooth finish with it on red oak with sharp blades, so I know the the bladed Grizzly machine will give me the quality I want along with a much needed increase in speed.

Is there any other advantage to the spiral head other than working with oddly figured wood?

Do the cutters on the spiral head last longer than blades?

Is it easier for the machine to turn the spiral head on wide boards?

Is there some way that the spiral head will be more cost effective compared to the bladed head?

The spiral head seems to be quite a bit more expensive but will I recoup that initial cost by not having to pay for knife sharpening or by not having to buy a knife grinder and then I see Grizzly has the disposible blade setup. Too many options, help me out here.

[Mikail Khan]

See comments in blue below:



Is there any other advantage to the spiral head other than working with oddly figured wood? Less noise. Ear protection is no longer mandatory, but I try to use it anyway.

Do the cutters on the spiral head last longer than blades? Yes several times longer. I have been using my planer for about a year. I have not rotated the inserts as yet. I am a hobbyist and would normally have changed out about 2 or 3 sets of blades on my Delta 22-580. I use mostly teak and mahogany because that is what is available (I am from the caribbean)

Is there some way that the spiral head will be more cost effective compared to the bladed head? Not if you look at it from a strictly financial point of view. It will take a few years for me to get back the extra money I spent. For me it was worth it because of the low noise level and not having to run around to get my blades resharped. After seeing how well the planer worked I bought a jointer with the grizz head.

[Paul Greathouse]

Thanks Mikail,

Now that you say it I do remember a previous discussion in another post about the spiral head running much more quiet.

I have never had the opportunity to work with teak but I hear it is quite hard, That would say alot for the longevity of the spiral cutters.

What process would be used to turn or replace the cutterheads on the spiral setup? Is it as simple as loosening an allen head screw? I've never seen one up close.

[Joe Jensen]

The inserts are carbide. I've read they will last 3-10C longer, and they have 4 sides. I've had a Byrd head in my planer for over 2 years as a hobbiest and it seems as sharp as new. I used to change steel knives about 2X per year. Seems to me that they will last at least 5X. So, that would be equal to 20 shapenings. On a 20" planer, you have 60" of knives. I get charged $1 per inch to sharpen steel knives. So, one set of carbide inserts would be 20 times $60 if my math is right.

On top of that, I used to spend a couple hours adjusting the knives on my PM planer. I will never have to adjust the planer again with a dial indicator. I don't know what you bill per hour, but if only $30 an hour, that's another $60 per changing of knives.

Just some thoughts. I'm a hobbiest who uses figured woods and hates setting knives :D

[Paul Greathouse]

Thanks Joe,

Sounds like the carbide inserts on the spiral head are a definate advantage. If your estimates are close, there should be a considerable savings, especialy over a longer period of time.

[glenn bradley]

Is it as simple as loosening an allen head screw?

It is just that simple and like offsetting chipped knives, a single or a few inserts can be rotated if required due to damage. You don't have to rotate the whole set.

[Dick Strauss]

Paul,
I'd go with the spiral carbide setup if money wasn't an issue. My only spiral head experience was a demo on an 8" Grizzly jointer at a friend's place so please take my comments for what they are worth. The jointer seemed to be much more quiet (maybe 10 dB) and took less feed pressure to take the same amount off a board.

Is it easier for the machine to turn the spiral head on wide boards?
I would guess the planer/jointer wouldn't work as hard to take off the same amount since it takes many smaller nibbles instead of 4 big bites.

Here is a two-part article from Popular Woodworking that gives a pretty good comparison of spiral carbide vs HSS including the costs over the life of the tooling.
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Are+Helical+Cutterheads+The+Answer+Part+1.aspx
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Are+Helical+Cutterheads+The+Answer+Part+2.aspx

I think you are in for a real treat by going with the spiral head with carbide inserts!

Good luck,
Dick

[Paul Greathouse]

Dick and Glenn, Thanks for the info and links

You are all leaving me without much choice, looks like I will be going with the spiral head. Now all I have to do is figure out which Griz Planer to go with. I know, there have been countless threads on that subject. Many of them even include Shiraz wieghing in with helpful info.

I still have a few weeks to decide, I won't be ordering until I am on vacation next month. I want to be sure I will be home for delivery. My day job is not very flexable in so far as taking off unexpectedly.

Most of the planer threads are about the 15" models and most of the talk is about the 1021. I would like to hear from any 454 or 453 owners that are happy with their planers and maybe a reason why you chose it over a 1033 or 1021.

[Daniel Hillmer]

By planer I am assuming you mean a surface planer.

I have owned the Griz G0453 15" Planer (http://www.grizzly.com/products/15-Planer/G0453) for about a year and a half, it does not have the spiral cutter head, but it has worked fine for me. I am able to plane down to uniform thicknesses to within less than 1/100 of an inch variations. As far as consistency of thickness from my experience I don’t think there is any need for the spiral cuter head.

The two advantages of the spiral cutter head, are that it leaves a smoother surface in your material, so you will end up doing a bit less sanding, and also the cutter head I believe will stay sharper longer.

For that reason someday I will prob invest in the spiral cutter head, but even if you go with the knives, it will work fine, I have run at least 2,000-3000 board foot total through that planer and the knives still appear to be sharp.

[J.R. Rutter]

I think that part of it boils down to what kind of surface you want out of the planer. Do you sand off milling marks now, or go straight to finish out of the lunchbox? It seems like mosy millwork that you can buy off the shelf is not sanded and people are used to the finly spaced knife mark finish. The helical head will leave a different looking finish, not as nice looking with reflected light. But if you sand anyway to get rid of milling marks, then the helical head is excellent for all of the reasons given elsewhere.

I used to have a 20" Shop Fox that I bought with the standard 4-knife head. With that head, I got the best results by having my sharpener put a "back bevel" on the flat face of the knives. It was slightly noisier, but gave smoother results in tricky wood grain. I later installed a Shelix head and never regretted it. Increased feed speed with no tearout that couldn't be managed with a pass through the sander. We run everything through

I later went with a custom Shelix head for my 12" jointer, and for my RC-63 planer. The inserts do take a bit of time to rotate. I typically do a row at a time and loosen them with a torx bit in a cordless drill; brush off the seats and inserts with a toothbrush; daub a tiny bit of oil on the underside of the screw head (seems to prevent breakage); use the drill to re-install with torque setting set just below final torque; and go back over with a torque wrench to final tightness.

[Robert Chapman]

Go with the spiral head - you will never regret it. Sanding is my least favorite part of furniture making and with the spiral head you will have much less sanding to do - plus all of the other advantages cited above.

[Ed Kilburn]

The other benefit not mentioned before is the chips are smaller and pack in the collection drum, now I don’t have to empty it as often. I do need to get a high level sensor installed before it over fills and clogs the filters, over an hour clean out job……………don’t ask me how I know.:eek:

[Alister Orme]

You could go with the standard 0454 20" and use the live.com/paypal discount to knock $200.00 off

Then order the Byrd shelix on special for $850.00 use the live.com discount /cashback and get another $200.00 off that.

You will pay a tad more in shipping....but its saving money

You will have to put in a cutterhead...but it will be a byrd

You will probably have to buy a new set of bearings

Both are listed on ebay right now and the live.com cashback is still at 30%......for how much longer ...who knows

There is a 10% coupon that was offered to some ebayers that will stack as well.it will be in your messages in "my ebay" if you were offered it

...maybe you should buy it now!!!

[Daniel Hillmer]

Just an afterthought, if you are also considering buying a new surface planer, OR if it's possible to put a spiral cutter head on your planer, AND if your budget dictates it and you have to make a choice between one or the other, were it me, I would be putting a spiral cutter head on my planer first, THEN later put a spiral head on the jointer. Because putting it on the planer first will do more for you in reduced sanding time, than it would on the jointer.

But, if you can afford it put spirals on both machines, JMHO.

[Jeff Duncan]

All right since no one else brought it up I will....you could also buy something better used....gasp!!!
I bought a brand new $3600 Bridgewood 20" planer with the spiral head (very comparable machine to the similarly priced Grizzly) about 2 years ago. The heads are quiet and they do leave a very nice finish that's certainly true. But the single phase 5 hp machine (for some reason they didn't offer it in 3 phase?) wasn't up to production work by a longshot. I bought it b/c I figure it would be a good planer for a one man shop like mine but I only kept it for a year. That was when I found a 20' SCM planer with a 9 hp motor that made the import seem like a toy for $1k. It has a 4 knife cutterhead but it still leaves a great finish. As already said everything needs sanding anyway so the difference between the heads is irrelevant for my needs. And since it has an on board knife grinder I don't have to pay to get my knives ground. So for me it will be much cheaper than the inserts.
Oh and I had the opposite experience than another poster with the spiral had as concerning the shavings. I found the light fluffy shavings produced by the spiral had a much greater tendency to clog my cyclone than the heavier straight knive chips.
Anyway you have to decide what you need for your work, I just thought I'd throw out another option as I wish someone did for me 2 years ago. This is a great site but the hobbiests far outweigh the professionals. Which is why I think certain brands get rave reviews. They're just not using the machines hard 8 hours a day like some of us, and that's where you'll see the difference in quality IMHO.
good luck,
JeffD