Const adhesive -vs- yellow glue???

[Jay Yoder]

Good even all. Just a quick question. I am planning on gluing and screwing some white pine 1x4's to a sheet of 3/4" birch plywood to act as the base french cleats. Which would be better to use, construction adhesive or yellow glue? i will be using 1 1/4" screws from behind so the caps wont be visible. any advantages to either?

[Gary Breckenridge]

Consider price.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
I use Titebond II & 1 1/4" - 18ga. staples every 6 in. on all my cleats, if that helps.
I believe it may take an act of God to separate them.

[Scott Conners]

In my experience, properly bonded Titebond II or other good PVA wood glue is generally stronger than pine, and any attempt to break the joint will just tear away wood instead. This also holds true for Liquid Nails and doug fir too, but I find the consistency annoying to work with if the joints are good. It's great under subfloors though!

[Howard Acheson]

Wait, you're headed for trouble. Adhesive is not the issue, wood movement is. You can not glue solid wood to plywood. Solid wood will want to expand/contract with seasonal changes in relative humidity but plywood will not move. What will happen is that the bond will fail or the wood will warp. Either use solid wood only or plywood only.

As to the adhesive, PVA adhesive is stonger but if you are mounting the cleats with screws through the wood, the screws will add considerable strength.

[Jay Yoder]

You know what? i think your right! Problem is, I am completely done! Did i just spend $70 on an idea that will give me problems? Oh boy, i am afraid i blew this one! I guess we will see...I was planning on painting it, would that help with movement?

[Dave Lehnert]

You know what? i think your right! Problem is, I am completely done! Did i just spend $70 on an idea that will give me problems? Oh boy, i am afraid i blew this one! I guess we will see...I was planning on painting it, would that help with movement?

I am going to bet you will be OK. The wood you are using is not all that wide to be a huge issue.
Keep us up to date.

[Jay Yoder]

Dave i hope you're right. I used white pine 1x4's so hopefully there is not much movement! we shall see!

[Chris Padilla]

I agree 1x4 pine isn't going to move all that much and screws will keep things put. You're fine. :)

[Charlie Plesums]

Keep in mind that the troublesome wood movement is across the grain, and generally 2-3 inches is okay, 12 inches is not. Lengthwise, the wood movement is minimal.

I would not expect any trouble.

[Jay Yoder]

Thank you for your input. I will keep you all posted. I hope i will have not problems, but this is a lesson learned, i was not thinking thru the movement issue. Maybe that is why i read somewhere that some folks were using plywood for the cleats too. more expensive but would have no movement possibility!!

[Greg Hines, MD]

If you are really that worried about wood movement, make your cleat out of plywood too. That would eliminate any movement problems. And as a French Cleat is hidden by the cabinet, it would be invisible anyway. I would agree that 1x3 or 1x4 would be no big deal in any event.

Doc

[M Toupin]

I hope i will have not problems, but this is a lesson learned

Jay, you're fine, the only lesson you need to learn is don't believe everything you read on the internet. Builders have been attaching solid wood cleats to plywood backs of cabinets with glue for years .

On the other hand, maybe I'm wrong and cabinets are going to start falling off walls everywere...

Mike

[Charlie Plesums]

For a 2-3 inch wide cleat, I would use hardwood.

Some of the newer plywood I have gotten has a composite (man-made) layer under the surface ply to give a smoother appearance to the surface (so the surface ply can be even thinner). That thin man-made layer has very little strength - items surface glued to the plywood often break off at that composite layer. Thus if you use plywood cleats, with the new plywood all the strength has to come from the screws, very little from the glue.

To avoid the "combination core or combi core" plywood, I have gone to "green" plywood, for about 10% more cost. I don't care about the green features, but it is domestic plywood, has all wood plys, and a thicker show ply.