Second best built plunge router?

[Daniel Hillmer]

I was considering buying the Festool OF 1400, but after seeing the extremely high price for accessories for this router, and especially the replacement collets for this router are 40 bucks and for my big PC router - collet I can get for about 8 bucks, I'm thinking about buying second best.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what is almost as good as the Festool?

[pat warner]

DW 621 (http://patwarner.com/dw621.html) and, in my view: better in many ways.

[John Thompson]

I sold a Bosch plunge and a DW 621 and took a chance on the Milwaukee combo kit that has the plunge and fix base. I run a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP under my table and absolutely love the power and ease of use. After selling those two and having previously owned a PC.. Dewalt.. it was the best move I ever made in the router department.

The 2 1/4 HP has the muscle.. depth of cut.. ease of bit change and the feel and balance that is perfect for me. You will get many suggestions of what everyone likes as it is a personal thing but.. I will most likely never have a need for another router again with the 3 HP fixed under my table and the 2 1/4 HP plunge and body-grop fixed above.

Good luck...

Sarge..

[Daniel Hillmer]

Thanks Pat and John.

Do either of your above routers have a good line of accessories?

Festool has a neat jig, but I find the price obscene as are all of their accessories - its here:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/routers/other-accessories/plexiglas-template-routing-aid-495246.html

They charge 250 bucks for it, and all it is, is three pieces of machined Plexiglas. I was wondering if anyone makes such a jig that would fit your above two routers?

I think why they charge 250 bucks for it, is not because it is actually worth that either in materials or development costs, but because it allows one to convert any festool 1400 router into a domino joiner (similar to biscuit joiner). And big surprise, the price of the router with this accessory is 700 bucks and the price of the domino is 700 bucks.

Another question Pat, in what way do you find the DW 621 (http://patwarner.com/dw621.html) better than the OF1400?

[Jim Becker]

Well, the OF1400 is a wonderful machine and if you break a collet in the first three years, it's not really your problem, more or less. It also comes with nearly everything you'll ever need outside of the adapter for use with the rails. It's operation is downright slinky-smooth and comfortable. And the dust collection is outstanding.

The DW621, which has been around for a LONG time, is also an excellent plunger. It's known for very smooth operation. It was the first one to have good dust collection, too.

[glenn bradley]

I sold a Bosch plunge and a DW 621 and took a chance on the Milwaukee combo kit that has the plunge and fix base. I run a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP under my table and absolutely love the power and ease of use. After selling those two and having previously owned a PC.. Dewalt.. it was the best move I ever made in the router department.

The 2 1/4 HP has the muscle.. depth of cut.. ease of bit change and the feel and balance that is perfect for me. You will get many suggestions of what everyone likes as it is a personal thing but.. I will most likely never have a need for another router again with the 3 HP fixed under my table and the 2 1/4 HP plunge and body-grop fixed above.

Good luck...

Sarge..

+1 on the 5616-24 combo. The plunge base is much better than some plunge only routers I have used.

[Daniel Hillmer]

Well, the OF1400 is a wonderful machine and if you break a collet in the first three years, it's not really your problem, more or less...

You mean Festool replaces it at no charge?

[Jim Becker]

Please check out the Festool warranty: http://www.festoolusa.com/support/warranty.html You'll also find that the great Festool dealers take pretty good care of their customers, too. SMC member Bob Marino is a good example...I could buy Festool from so many places, but only he will get my business.

[John Lucas]

You mean Festool replaces it at no charge?

Yes! It does. The collets are extremely well made.

[Daniel Hillmer]

OK what about third party add ons, for example if I wanted a Hinge Router Mortising Kit, or an edge guide, something like that, Are there any third party suppliers for such for the OF1400?

[Chris Padilla]

Daniel,

I'm a Festool junkie no doubt as I own just about everything but I have yet to plunk down my green on any of their routers for one good reason: I already have plenty of routers! :D

As you probably well know, Festool RULES for dust collection and so someday, I might plunk down for their routers but so far, I've managed to avoid it.

Click on the link in Pat Warner's post and check out his homepage. You may find some interesting stuff there to help drive your decision.

I'm happily using a PC690 kit, a PC890, a Bosch Colt, and finally, a PC7518 motor driving my router table. I simply can't justify plunging into Festool's routers just yet.... :D

[Daniel Hillmer]

Thanks Chris,

I only have one router at present, the PC 7518 3.25 hp, I have that mounted in my router table. I am looking for one more, a hand held, so I don't have to keep taking the 7518 out of the table.

Are you happy with your Bosch routers? I noticed you so far are the only one who mentioned them.

[Doug Shepard]

DW 621 (http://patwarner.com/dw621.html) and, in my view: better in many ways.

I've got both. Depth stop adjuster mechanism is better on the 621 no question. The OF1400 is almost cheesy in comparison IMHO. The plunge smoothness is pretty equal - maybe just a slight edge to the OF1400. The OF1400 is better on everything else, especially the dust collection.

[Noel Hegan]

Thanks Pat and John.

Do either of your above routers have a good line of accessories?

Festool has a neat jig, but I find the price obscene as are all of their accessories - its here:

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/routers/other-accessories/plexiglas-template-routing-aid-495246.html

They charge 250 bucks for it, and all it is, is three pieces of machined Plexiglas. I was wondering if anyone makes such a jig that would fit your above two routers?

I think why they charge 250 bucks for it, is not because it is actually worth that either in materials or development costs, but because it allows one to convert any festool 1400 router into a domino joiner (similar to biscuit joiner). And big surprise, the price of the router with this accessory is 700 bucks and the price of the domino is 700 bucks.

Another question Pat, in what way do you find the DW 621 (http://patwarner.com/dw621.html) better than the OF1400?

Couldn't you build a shopmade version for less than a tenth of the price? Doesn't look too complex or am I missing something as I'm totally Festool-less?

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks Chris,

I only have one router at present, the PC 7518 3.25 hp, I have that mounted in my router table. I am looking for one more, a hand held, so I don't have to keep taking the 7518 out of the table.

Are you happy with your Bosch routers? I noticed you so far are the only one who mentioned them.

The Bosch Colt kicks butt! I should've gotten a little one like this a long time ago. It is almost a laminate trimmer but slightly bigger but not so big that one can't handle it very comfortable and very safely with one hand. That is a big plus for edge-routing. The larger Bosch routers seem to get good ratings all the time but I have no experience with them.

[Chris Friesen]

I've got two Bosch EVS1617 kits. They're a bit underpowered when spinning big bits in hardwood (I did manage a 1 1/4" roundover on maple endgrain the other day, but it wasn't very happy about it) but that's par for the course.

I haven't had much of a chance to compare them with other decent ones in action (my buddies have cheap crap). I like the plunge action and the bit-ejecting collets.

[Ken Milhinch]

I was considering buying the Festool OF 1400, but after seeing the extremely high price for accessories for this router, and especially the replacement collets for this router are 40 bucks and for my big PC router - collet I can get for about 8 bucks, I'm thinking about buying second best.

Anyone have any suggestions as to what is almost as good as the Festool?

Second best ? Against Festool, everything is second best, but "almost as good as Festool" ? Good luck in your search;)

[Jim Becker]

OK what about third party add ons, for example if I wanted a Hinge Router Mortising Kit, or an edge guide, something like that, Are there any third party suppliers for such for the OF1400?

I use my Microfence (http://www.microfence.com/) setup with both of my Festool routers as well as the DW and PC routers I own. They just required a different adapter plate. I use standard "PC" guide bushings with mine, too. The guide bushing adapter just snaps into the base and came with the OF1400 router. (I did have to buy the adapter for the OF1010)

[Dave Falkenstein]

Daniel - Do you want to use the new router with your Festool guide rails? I think there is an adapter sold by EZ that will allow you to do that with almost any router, but the last time I looked it was not shown on the EZ web site. Call and ask about the F-SRK.

The OF1400 works well on the guide rails with the adapter from Festool.

I have several routers and have bought just one extra collet - that was for my Freud router and it cost about $40.

[Daniel Hillmer]

I've got both. Depth stop adjuster mechanism is better on the 621 no question. The OF1400 is almost cheesy in comparison IMHO. The plunge smoothness is pretty equal - maybe just a slight edge to the OF1400. The OF1400 is better on everything else, especially the dust collection.

Will the 621 do 1/256" incremnts like the festool (supposedly) does?

[Tom Esh]

Ditto on the DW621. Add a Pat Warner base and it's awesome. I often find myself using it when a plunger isn't really called for - just because it's such a pleasure to use.

[Daniel Hillmer]

I use my Microfence (http://www.microfence.com/) setup with both of my Festool routers as well as the DW and PC routers I own. They just required a different adapter plate. I use standard "PC" guide bushings with mine, too. The guide bushing adapter just snaps into the base and came with the OF1400 router. (I did have to buy the adapter for the OF1010)

Oh gawd Jim gee thanks a lot!

Now there's another tool I am drooling over sheesh I want one I swear I am going to go broke buying toys.

[Daniel Hillmer]

Daniel - Do you want to use the new router with your Festool guide rails? I think there is an adapter sold by EZ that will allow you to do that with almost any router, but the last time I looked it was not shown on the EZ web site. Call and ask about the F-SRK.

The OF1400 works well on the guide rails with the adapter from Festool.

I have several routers and have bought just one extra collet - that was for my Freud router and it cost about $40.

Don't need to use it on a guide rail yet but I'll check out the EZ adapter thanks.

[Doug Shepard]

Will the 621 do 1/256" incremnts like the festool (supposedly) does?

As far as those detent increments, no there's nothing like that on the 621. But re-zeroing the scale then turning the dial and reading the scale for additional depth is easy though I'd have to doublecheck the scale resolution. It's definitely not graduated in 1/256ths but I dont recall what it is at the moment. To be honest I dont find that 1/256th detent adjustment on the Festool all that useful. If I need that kind of additional depth with either router I just slip a piece of paper or business card between the turret stop. Dont get me wrong - I love that Festool router and dont use the 621 much any more but I really miss the DW depth stop and wish it could be grafted onto the Festool. I just find it way more intuitive, easy to use, and non-metric than the Festool scheme.

[Doug Shepard]

Oh gawd Jim gee thanks a lot!

Now there's another tool I am drooling over sheesh I want one I swear I am going to go broke buying toys.

Not that this will help much as they're still pricy, but microfence has revamped their website some and sent out an email that they're having a 7 day "Grand Opening" sale with a bit of a discount (not huge one) on stuff. If you're interested PM me with your email address and I'll forward it to you. They dont seem to have the details listed on their site. I got this on 10/15 so I guess it's good through 10/22. Their edge guide and circle guide are the best.

[Dave Falkenstein]

Don't need to use it on a guide rail yet but I'll check out the EZ adapter thanks.

Daniel - To me one of the big reasons for using Festool products is the system integration you get with their tools. The circular saw and router (and jig saw) work with the guide rail. If you have not discovered the uses for the router on the guide rail, you might want to look a bit further before you discard the idea of buying the OF1400. I understand from previous posts that you don't own a table saw. Using the OF1400 on the guide rail to cut dados works really well.

[Clifford Mescher]

DW 621 (http://patwarner.com/dw621.html) and, in my view: better in many ways.
I would agree with Mr. Warner. Maybe put Festool # 3. Clifford

[Jerry Beltramo]

One router that has not been mentioned is the Triton. I would rate it up there as one of the best. I do a lot of fine wood working and think the Festool is way over rated (even though it is a good product) especially when you consider what you have to pay. I have several diffent routers (Bosch, Porter Cable, etc.) in my shop and find them to work well and would not call them second best to any other.

[Peter Pedisich]

Daniel,

I have both the DW618 3-base kit and the Festool OF1400.

The Festool is super smooth in plunge and it sounds quieter than the DW.

But here is the bottom line:

1) The DW turret is better, the Bosch turret better still.
2) Festool and DW collets very similar in overall beefiness, Festool is longer.
3) Festool will take longer router bits.
4) Ergonomics is very personal - I like the Festool handle better 75% of the time. Try both out if possible.
5) Dust collection on Festool is more complete, but the DW exits from up above, which is more convenient.
4) DW618 is 90% of the Festool in ability for 50% of the cost!

Do yourself a favor and check out the Bosch 1613 2.25hp - it's got it all!

good luck,

pete

[Daniel Hillmer]

Daniel,

I have both the DW618 3-base kit and the Festool OF1400.

The Festool is super smooth in plunge and it sounds quieter than the DW.

But here is the bottom line:

1) The DW turret is better, the Bosch turret better still.
2) Festool and DW collets very similar in overall beefiness, Festool is longer.
3) Festool will take longer router bits.
4) Ergonomics is very personal - I like the Festool handle better 75% of the time. Try both out if possible.
5) Dust collection on Festool is more complete, but the DW exits from up above, which is more convenient.
4) DW618 is 90% of the Festool in ability for 50% of the cost!

Do yourself a favor and check out the Bosch 1613 2.25hp - it's got it all!

good luck,

pete

To clarify, are you saying that the Bosch turret is smoother than the Festool turret?

[Doug Shepard]

...5) Dust collection on Festool is more complete, but the DW exits from up above, which is more convenient.
...


I'm not familiar with the 618 but the 621 also exits from the top. I got used to it over the years but I've come to prefer the lower exit on the Festool. The top exit on the DW can make for a tippy router if the vac hose hangs up on something.

[Matt Robinette]

I have a Bosch B1450 that I have had for years and is a great little plunge router but I just picked up a Triton MOOFOO1k3 2 1/4hp (AKA BAD MO FO). It comes in a kit with two collets,edge guide,guide bushings and a handle raise and lower it for under table use. It also has great dust collection and safety features not seen on other makers routers. It does work a little different than other plunge routers but it is a small learning curve. I have it attached to the SRK on my EZ guide and so far It has worked as advertised.

[Peter Pedisich]

To clarify, are you saying that the Bosch turret is smoother than the Festool turret?

Daniel,

No, not smoother, but better designed. The Bosch and DeWalt depth stop turrets are both a 'stepped' design, but the Bosch is better because it has perfect increments for Mortises and dados.

The Festool turret is nowhere near as convenient. But the DeWalt 618 plunge base and the Festool both have an annoying amount of 'spring' to them due to the detent design.

Another one to consider is the Milwaukee 2.25hp kit with plunge base.
I've heard the plunge base is very good. The collet on the Milwaukee looks like a '48 Dodge Power Wagon compared to the one on the DW618.

Also, the new Porter-Cable 890 kit plunge base has been redesigned to be like the DW6182, may be worth a look if you like quiet routers. The P-C 890 motor has a smoother, lower hum compared to my DW, which is higher-pitched. But both are much quieter than the old 1-1/2 hp shop standard P-C 690.

-pete

[Daniel Hillmer]

I'm curious why Micro Fence does not make a plunge base for the Festool routers...

Maybe it's just a matter of demand? Not as many folks buy Festools so there is not a big market for it?

Maybe the plunge base that comes with the 1400 is so good that it does not warrant a third party plunge base?

[Dave Falkenstein]

I'm curious why Micro Fence does not make a plunge base for the Festool routers...

Maybe it's just a matter of demand? Not as many folks buy Festools so there is not a big market for it?

Maybe the plunge base that comes with the 1400 is so good that it does not warrant a third party plunge base?

Why would anyone make a plunge base for a plunge router??? The OF1400 is not a multi-base kit, it is a dedicated plunge router.

[glenn bradley]

The collet on the Milwaukee looks like a '48 Dodge Power Wagon compared to the one on the DW618.

Collet comparison and flawless plunging won me over: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=81365&d=1202696130

P.s. The rust inside the DW collet was there right out of the box. It went back.

[Doug Shepard]

I'm curious why Micro Fence does not make a plunge base for the Festool routers...
..


What Dave said. The MF plunge base was primarily designed for use with laminate trimmers and Dremels which dont have plunge capability.

[Daniel Hillmer]

Why would anyone make a plunge base for a plunge router??? The OF1400 is not multi-base a kit, it is a dedicated plunge router.

Ah. I was told a few days ago, can't remember where, that the 1400 can be removed from the plunge base. So it's permanently fixed?

[Daniel Hillmer]

What Dave said. The MF plunge base was primarily designed for use with laminate trimmers and Dremels which dont have plunge capability.

OH I got it it's just for small sized routers with no base. Thanks.

[Greg Sznajdruk]

One router that has not been mentioned is the Triton. I would rate it up there as one of the best. I do a lot of fine wood working and think the Festool is way over rated (even though it is a good product) especially when you consider what you have to pay. I have several diffent routers (Bosch, Porter Cable, etc.) in my shop and find them to work well and would not call them second best to any other.

I have the Triton it’s a good router but the controls are counter intuitive compared to North American routers. As a result I tend to use it last and then have to get the manual to refresh my memory on control use. Then I find that refreshing my memory is becoming a full time occupation.

Greg

[Bob Marino]

Ah. I was told a few days ago, can't remember where, that the 1400 can be removed from the plunge base. So it's permanently fixed?

Correct.

Bob

[Neal Clayton]

Thanks Chris,

I only have one router at present, the PC 7518 3.25 hp, I have that mounted in my router table. I am looking for one more, a hand held, so I don't have to keep taking the 7518 out of the table.

Are you happy with your Bosch routers? I noticed you so far are the only one who mentioned them.

the 1.5hp porter cable is just about perfect for handheld use, my only complaint with it is lack of a soft start.

it's powerful enough for anything safe to do by hand, and light enough to be comfortable. plus the plethora of PC guides and jigs and adapters and such are always available locally if needed since lowes and home depot carry them.

[Pete Clifford]

Are you happy with your Bosch routers? I noticed you so far are the only one who mentioned them.
I've got the Bosch 1617 combo kit, which is a 2.25 HP plunge and fixed base set. I like it very much, and it was one of the top-rated 2.25 HP routers when I purchased it a few years ago. The only thing that I don't really like is that the maple handles, although they look great, can be a bit slippery. A rubber over-molded grip would be better, IMHO.

A Bosch Colt is my small router/laminate trimmer. It's great and does that job, and is much easier to handle than a larger router.

For my table router I'm using a Freud 3.25 HP. Certainly not a Festool, but powerful and more than adequate for my current level of WW skill.