Narrowest strip one can safely cut on a table saw? [Archive]

Chris Padilla

10-16-2008, 3:48 PM

That depends on which side of the board you are taking that thin sliver off, Daniel! :)

However, I suspect you mean with the blade very close to the fence? There are ways to avoid that as well and still have the ability to rip very thin strips of wood off.

It might also depend on the wood, how thick the wood is, how long the wood is, the grain/cut of the wood (flatsawn, quarter, rift) and the blade, too.

It might also depend on what you want to do with these thin strips...shall we just call them veneers?

I've ripped very thin strips off such that they were translucent but I doubt you want them that thin.

Brent Smith39

10-16-2008, 3:49 PM

There are a lot of variables, how tuned is the saw, what type of wood, what type of blade, etc.

Are you shaving off a small strip off a larger board, then it's fairly safe, but if your continually cutting off strips then you'll eventually get to a small piece and it won't be safe any more.

A well tuned saw can get some thin strips.

If you supplied a little more info, that would help.

Greg Hines, MD

10-16-2008, 3:50 PM

Hi,

I was wondering what any long time users of table saws would recommend would be the narrowest strip one could safely cut on a cabinet saw?

Using the right kind of pushblock, (something that is sacrificial) and feather boards or rollers, I don't see why you could not cut a strip that was more than 1/8" thick. The thicker your stock, however, the harder it would be (ex: trying to cut a 1/4" strip off of a 4x4, the blade would have to be so high as to be unsafe for a single cut, though you could do it with two passes).

Doc

Lee Schierer

10-16-2008, 4:25 PM

As Chris says, it depends on which side of the blade you are trying to make the cut. If the piece is to be between teh fence and the blade, I wouldn't recommend cutting anything thinner than 1/8", but wou will need a sacrificial push stick to cut that of a properly designed sled.

I've cut strips to the left of the blade (fence to the right) that are thinner than 1/64 inch. You can nearly read through them. You need the right blade, good alignment and it can't be done will all types or even all pieces of wood (Red oak will generally break or crack, maple, poplar and cherry work pretty well). Wood that thin is pretty fragile and can easily break.

You must use a zero clearance insert to make these cuts on either side of the blade safely.

Daniel Hillmer

10-16-2008, 4:25 PM

I guess I was not clear - I know thin strips can be cut. What I really meant was, what's the narrowest I would want to trim stock down to, before I stop trimming off narrow strips from that remaining (waste) stock?

Assuming I am trimming 3/4 inch thick hard maple, around 28 inches long, and assuming it's a well tuned grizzly cabinet saw, left tilt...

I'm assuming it would be better to run the stock between the fence and blade since they are long strips, and use push sticks...

Chris Padilla

10-16-2008, 4:31 PM

Ah, if you make the right kind of sacrificial push stick, I think you could take it all the way down to nothing.

A piece of plywood cut in an L would allow this.

William OConnell

10-16-2008, 5:12 PM

Hi,

I was wondering what any long time users of table saws would recommend would be the narrowest strip one could safely cut on a cabinet saw?

I can and have cut 1/64" off stock using an incra fence and cutting from the left side of the blade. Cutting small strips from the right side of the blade can be dangerous and they are more prone to causing kick back. When I find myself ripping 5/8" strips I always think "this is just a piece of wood and not worth the possible repercussions"
Thanks for asking that question since last week I had to rush to the pharmacy to get a first aid kit for one of my guys who shaved all the callous and more off his thumb while ripping 1/4" shims. Be careful out there

Howard Acheson

10-16-2008, 5:20 PM

I have cut 1/32" strips for edge veneer off the non-fence side of the blade using a Freud Fusion 40 tooth blade. I've cut 1/4" strips off the fence side of the blade with proper set up.

Daniel Hillmer

10-16-2008, 5:46 PM

Chris Padilla

10-16-2008, 6:16 PM

Daniel,

Tables saws ARE extremely dangerous! Always keep that in mind and you'll operate around them safely. I think a healthy dose of fear is good if it makes you think twice or three times about a cut you are about to make....

Burt Waddell

10-16-2008, 6:18 PM

Well that's good to know because (I won't mention the manufacturer name) a certain saw system supplier claimed in one of his videos that it's impossible to cut narrow strips safely with a table saw and many people have been killed or injured with dangerous table saws.

I realize one needs to read instructions and keep safety in mind, yet he was talking as if table saws are extremely dangerous.

Have not decided which way to go yet but I feel a bit better about table saws now so thanks all.

Daniel,

Do yourself a favor and read thru this thread a couple of more times. Note the precautions listed. As with most experienced wood workers, I have done done thin rips on the table saw. And like the gentleman that was taken to the emeregency, I have hurt myself doing it.

I have found that cutting narrow pieces with a rail system takes a lot of excitement out of my life.

One of the last major scares that I had with a table saw was a couple years ago. I was ripping a piece of wood about 1 x 1 and about 4' long. Fortunately I was standing to the side of the saw. Somehow I lost control of the piece of wood. The saw threw it about 10 feet. It went thru 2 pieces of 1/4" plywood, a piece of 1/4" masonite and dinged up the side of a piece of 1/2" plywood.

Burt

Daniel Hillmer

10-16-2008, 6:41 PM

...One of the last major scares that I had with a table saw was a couple years ago. I was ripping a piece of wood about 1 x 1 and about 4' long. Fortunately I was standing to the side of the saw. Somehow I lost control of the piece of wood. The saw threw it about 10 feet. It went thru 2 pieces of 1/4" plywood, a piece of 1/4" masonite and dinged up the side of a piece of 1/2" plywood.

Burt

Wow, what horse motor on your saw?

Daniel Hillmer

10-16-2008, 6:44 PM

OK then are there any scenarios in which I could lop off a finger, even when using push blocks or sticks?

Marty Barron

10-16-2008, 6:49 PM

Daniel, here is a link to Charles Neil's website the Quick Woodworking Tips section. There is a video on cutting thin strips that will help you.

Marty

http://www.antiquesbuiltdaily.com/tips.htm

Doug Shepard

10-16-2008, 7:08 PM

A lot too depends on how much wood is on the other side of the blade. Cutting 1/8" off something 1/2" wide is a bit different than trying to cut 1/8" off something 6" wide. The thin portion between the fence and blade is your only real point of contact for pushing. A wider board means you're not really pushing from behind the board but on a corner. Terms like torque come to mind and chances for some nasty kickback.

Dino Makropoulos

10-16-2008, 7:25 PM

OK then are there any scenarios in which I could lop off a finger, even when using push blocks or sticks?

Hidden knots and voids inside th wood.
Wood reaction with mixed grains woods.
Bad blade, pinched wood ( between blade and fence)
Bad fence, bee landing in your face and a million other senarios.

Why work with a tool that demands perfection
in order not to have an accident?

If you go the tablesaw route, get the sawstop and the grrripers.
Magnetic featherbords and a good sliding tale.

Good luck and welcome to woodworking.

Anthony Whitesell

10-16-2008, 7:35 PM

I can rip a piece so thin you can see light through it. Ripping thin stock has never been an issue. Crosscutting short stock is 100 times more dangerous.

Joe Scharle

10-16-2008, 7:37 PM

Hi,

I was wondering what any long time users of table saws would recommend would be the narrowest strip one could safely cut on a cabinet saw?

If you're cutting splines, you can use a jig like this and get 1/8 with no problem, one after another until you get down to about an inch. But you'd need to read the wood, i.e. straight grain etc. BTW, I always use a splitter when ripping, this is just a pic for illustration.

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/data/194/thumbs/SplineJig005.jpg (http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showphoto.php?photo=4835)

Chris Padilla

10-16-2008, 7:44 PM

BTW, I always use a splitter when ripping, this is just a pic for illustration.

LOL! Sorry, Joe, I had to laugh. You always see that added to pics in wood mags: "guard removed for clarity...always use a guard...blah, blah, blah..." :p

Mike Spanbauer

10-16-2008, 7:54 PM

This exact scenario is one of the arguments I used with myself to purchase my bandsaw. While the advice offered here is spot on, I would recommend a bandsaw to any of these methods, IF that is at all an option.

Otherwise, jigs and guard are the way to do it on the TS (splitter, and push)

mike

Peter Quinn

10-16-2008, 7:57 PM

Once you get down below 1/2" of material between the blade and the fence, all the hair starts standing up on the back of my neck and that little bell in my mind that alerts me to danger starts wringing like big ben. Push sticks, feather boards, splitter or riving knife, skill saw on skates, I don't care what you are using. When you start splitting 3/8" material with a circular saw you are courting danger for sure. I have gone thinner, but is it really worth it in most cases? The BS is a lot safer and quicker in most cases for thin material given I have a drum sander to clean things up, but i would have to clean up the TS cuts any way.

Ditto on Charles Niel's thin strip video that Marty suggested. Please do check that out, as well as his other video's on related topics. Safety and accuracy often work hand in hand. Mr. Neil's methods are simple and brilliant.

Generally once I reach 1" between the blade and the fence, I start thinking the rest is good kindling or I go to the BS.

Burt Waddell

10-16-2008, 9:01 PM

Wow, what horse motor on your saw?

5 horsepower.

glenn bradley

10-16-2008, 9:04 PM

Well that's good to know because (I won't mention the manufacturer name) a certain saw system supplier claimed in one of his videos that it's impossible to cut narrow strips safely with a table saw and many people have been killed or injured with dangerous table saws.

I realize one needs to read instructions and keep safety in mind, yet he was talking as if table saws are extremely dangerous.

Have not decided which way to go yet but I feel a bit better about table saws now so thanks all.

And many people have been maimed by their vicious circular saws as well . . . and watch out for those hand chisels too :) It is a shame that the only way some products can be elevated is by attempting to tear what they view as the competition :(. Just because you like apples, you don't have to hate oranges. One does not have to displace the other as an evil interloper. I cut dado's with a router when that's the best solution. I cut them on a table saw when that is the best solution. I haven't tried cutting them with a circular saw but I bet it would make a great "circular saws kill" video :D:D:D.

I cut down to 1/4" between the fence and blade using a Grr-Ripper in complete safety.

http://www.microjig.com/images/GRR-RipperImage/RipsQuarterInch.gif

If I want to go to something I can read through, I use a stop on the left of the blade and adjust up to it.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/36833-01-200.jpg

Neither of these needs to be store bought but they work well.

Jacob Reverb

10-16-2008, 9:44 PM

a certain saw system supplier claimed in one of his videos that it's impossible to cut narrow strips safely with a table saw and many people have been killed or injured

Long thin strips CAN be extremely dangerous, especially if you stand behind the blade (which I always try to avoid).

If a long strip kicks back out of the saw, it can come flying out like an arrow at 130 mph.

I heard about a guy who was cutting long thin strips on his table saw, and one kicked back, and it went RIGHT THROUGH the tailgate of his truck! :eek:

Imagine if that was your liver!

Tom Esh

10-16-2008, 10:11 PM

Hi,

I was wondering what any long time users of table saws would recommend would be the narrowest strip one could safely cut on a cabinet saw?

Right up to the point where my push tool rubs the guard - or about 1.25".
I refuse to remove safety devices just to save a little material. Of course that leaves me with a whole bin full of 1.25" strips, but they make nice tomato stakes.:D

Eric Larsen

10-17-2008, 12:10 AM

I heard about a guy who was cutting long thin strips on his table saw, and one kicked back, and it went RIGHT THROUGH the tailgate of his truck! :eek:

Imagine if that was your liver!

MY liver would laugh. Then it would slurp it's way over to the kegerator and get another beer.

Rod Sheridan

10-17-2008, 8:50 AM

Cutting thin strips on a tablesaw is just plain dangerous.

You can take steps to reduce the danger, however you cannot eliminate it.

Making strips is what gang rip saws are built for, when something goes wrong, the exploding/flying spears are contained inside a chain and metal curtain. Even then you see the operator ducking for cover.

Push blocks, feather boards, push sticks etc, work up to a point, which is the point at which the guard interferes with the work, or your fingers or push devices are too close to the blade.

Just because you're using a push stick doesn't mean the saw cannot fire the push stick through your hand or abdomen.

If you want to rip a 1/16" piece off of a 4" wide piece, no problem, rip the thin piece off the non fence side.

If you really want to rip thin strips, use the bandsaw.

I often make 3/16" thick strips for edge banding by sawing them just shy of 1/4" on the tablesaw, using a feeder. Once the piece is too small for the feeder, it makes great firewood.

Regards, Rod.

john bateman

10-17-2008, 10:21 AM

Cliff Rohrabacher

10-17-2008, 10:38 AM

I don't think there is any minimum threshold.

Rather I say it depends on the integrity of the lumber and the coarseness of the blade's cut.

Scott Wigginton

10-17-2008, 10:48 AM

Alan Schwabacher

10-17-2008, 11:13 AM

While it is possible to cut thin strips off a piece until very little is left, doing so safely takes care, proper equipment, and some experience. If you are a beginner, I would recommend avoiding the problem by edge gluing another 6" wide piece of stock so you always have something to hold on to. That makes it a lot simpler to be safe.

Daniel Hillmer

10-17-2008, 11:36 AM

Thanks for all the extremely helpful comments folks I really appreciate it. I will prob. spend the entire weekend re reading many of the posts here. I wanted to see what I'm getting into, if I go ahead and buy the Grizzly 1023 cabinet saw.

Actually, I don't see myself cutting anything less than 3/4 of an inch wide on a table saw, when I said strips I really meant narrow rails and stiles, because that’s what I have been doing with the festool 55 saw and the parallel edge guide set up most of the summer. But I thought I would leave it at ambiguous strips for this post to see how safely thin I could go, I was curious.

I got into a situation where I had to cut my stiles pretty narrow for two of my wall cabinets I think they were a bit less than 7/8” wide.

With the festool I can rough cut my rails and stiles by clamping to the MFT table and then using the parallel edge guide accessory for the saw, I can get them pretty close but never square enough to use as is, and I always have to cut them wider, and shave a considerable amount off – maybe 1/8” or so, with my jointer and surface planer to square them up – I thought it would be much easier to do this on a TS (and less waste).

Prashun Patel

10-17-2008, 11:37 AM

There's not a minimum - and it can be as safe as cutting wide stock on the tsaw, you just have to do it right.

I use a GRRRIPPER which helps.

Nissim Avrahami

10-17-2008, 11:46 AM

Gripper is maybe good but, "No Entry" to my garage...I don't accept any "Safety Device" that tells me:
1. Remove the blade guard...

I love to use "High Blade" and I don't think that it's dangerous...of course, if the blade guard is "Removed for clarity" or other reasons - any blade height is dangerous...

I just moved the rip fence "out of the way"(like on the pic on the post above)...why to push myself into narrow distances and dangerous situation.

I have one long sled to cut up to 68" long strips (but I have also a 100" straight edge if needed) and two shorter ones for up to 40" long strips....Actually, any Plywood/Melamine/MDF straight board will do, just screw a pusher and go...

I use this sleds not only for cutting strips but also when I have to rip up to 3"~4" from a board...keeps my hand far from the "meat & bon slicer" and gives me wide open area for push sticks/blocks/shoes.

I set the rip fence (actually, the sled) to the required strip thickness so no need to reset the fence after every cut and I can rip even a 1/4" or less board into two...

When the strips are very thin - 2mm (5/64") or below, I use the "Vacuum sled" that hold the thin strip - after it was cut so it will not flutter.

A few pics....

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Strips%20on%20TS/S05.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Strips%20on%20TS/S08.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Strips%20on%20TS/S07.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/10.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Picture%20frame%20WIP/14.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Strips%20Vacuum/02.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Strips%20Vacuum/03.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Strips%20Vacuum/04.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb151/matsukawa/Strips%20Vacuum/06.jpg

Cliff Polubinsky

10-17-2008, 5:28 PM

John Nesmith

10-17-2008, 7:31 PM

And many people have been maimed by their vicious circular saws as well . . . and watch out for those hand chisels too :) It is a shame that the only way some products can be elevated is by attempting to tear what they view as the competition :(. Just because you like apples, you don't have to hate oranges. One does not have to displace the other as an evil interloper. I cut dado's with a router when that's the best solution. I cut them on a table saw when that is the best solution. I haven't tried cutting them with a circular saw but I bet it would make a great "circular saws kill" video :D:D:D.

I cut down to 1/4" between the fence and blade using a Grr-Ripper in complete safety.

http://www.microjig.com/images/GRR-RipperImage/RipsQuarterInch.gif

If I want to go to something I can read through, I use a stop on the left of the blade and adjust up to it.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/36833-01-200.jpg

Neither of these needs to be store bought but they work well.

+1 on that. That's exactly what I do. I have 2 grippers. I use a shop-made jig in place of the Rockler you are showing if I'm ripping thin strips to the left of the blade.

Daniel Hillmer

10-24-2008, 11:49 AM

Over on thefamilyhandyman there is a Table Saw tips article (http://www.rd.com/familyhandyman/content/45038/) which includes a jig for cutting narrow strips. (this article is about 2/3 of the way down the page)

http://www.rd.com/images/tfhimport/2006/200601_TableSaw_011.jpg

Hey that's a GREAT idea thanks so much!

Only problem I see - if there is kickback, would I have two huge peices of wood flying back at me instead of one?

Daniel Hillmer

10-24-2008, 12:01 PM

Daniel,

Here's a link to a jig I've used for quite a while. It's safe, keeps your hands away from the blade, allows repeatable cuts and deals safely with long strips as well.

http://woodworking.phruksawan.com/edgebandRipping/index.html

Good luck.

Cliff

Thanks Cliff that's ingenious too thanks so much.

The one concern I have with the jigs (and I'm just a TS beginner so I prob. don’t know what 'm talking about – sorry if I am asking dumb questions about this), is that – won’t these jigs solve one problem and generate another?

I mean, yes it keeps your hands safely away from the blade and that's terrific. But what if there is kickback? Won’t there be increased danger of having much larger jigs and material flying back at you, if there is kickback? Or maybe a injured wrist or arm if the jig and or material try to instantaneously fly up off the table as you are trying to hold them down?

Or am I missing something here?

David Keller NC

10-24-2008, 12:18 PM

"I was wondering what any long time users of table saws would recommend would be the narrowest strip one could safely cut on a cabinet saw?"

That depends on how much you like your fingers and don't like pieces of sharp wood sticking out of your midsection. In all seriousness, it makes no sense to take a chance like this when there are easier and considerably safer ways to accomplish your goal. In particular, this is one time where hand tools in combination with a good bandsaw is the way to go. I do a fair amount of this sort of thing for edging and banding, and it's pretty simple - bandsaw the strips (helps enormously to get your fence set to the blade's cutting angle), then plane the marks off with a block plane and a simple sticking board.

A sticking board can be as basic as a flat board with a thin strip tacked cross-wise to the end with a bit of cyanoacrylate glue. If you've difficulty getting the strips to lay down on the board while planing, you can tack a piece of 220 grit sandpaper down with some spray-on glue. It works great, and the biggest danger with a handplane is that your arm will get tired.

Eric Larsen

10-24-2008, 4:08 PM

I'd like to point out that I would like to fly to Poland just to see all of Nissim's jigs and fixtures up close.

You, sir, should write a book.

I'll even edit it.

Daniel Hillmer

10-24-2008, 4:14 PM

I'd like to point out that I would like to fly to Poland just to see all of Nissim's jigs and fixtures up close.

You, sir, should write a book.

I'll even edit it.

I'll buy it, I want an autographed copy!

AL Ursich

02-13-2009, 11:12 AM

Steve Clardy

02-13-2009, 2:20 PM

I cut my cabinet scribe strips [1/8x3/4x 8'-10'-12'] with the strip against the fence all the time. I don't use any push blocks or sticks.

You'd have to see it done the way I do it, as I don't think I could describe it by typing it out.

Nissim Avrahami

02-13-2009, 2:53 PM

Nissim,

That is a GREAT idea. I am going to steal your concept to make a Vacuum Sled for my CarveWright Machine to hold Engraving Plastic and FRP Fiber Reinforced Plastic name tags.

Your Vacuum source is just a Vacuum Cleaner?

Thanks,

AL
Thank you Al

Please have a look here for "step-by-step" building of the sled...
http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14029

The vac is a home-vac converted to shop-vac and I use it on "MIN" power...

Regards
niki

Edit:
Oooops, I've just seen your reply on the "LumberJocks"....

Thanks
niki

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Shop%20vac/DC1.jpg

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t104/nanikami/Vac%20Hammer/0017.jpg

Cody Colston

02-13-2009, 8:04 PM

I just recently watched a video of Jeff Williams, inlay and marquetry expert at Irion Company Furniture Makers, cutting 1/32" inlay strips on the TS.

He used a ZCI of course and set his sacrificial fence a strong 1/32" from the blade. The 2" thick piece of Holly stock was pushed through with a sacrificial wooden push block.

No fancy, complicated jigs, not even a splitter. Just a well set up saw used by a confident, knowledgeable operator.

There's also not much risk of a 1/32" strip being "kicked back" as the strip is too flexible to be launched by the blade and would not cause an injury even if it were launched.

It seems to me that cutting something like a 1" strip would be potentially more hazardous than thinner strips, just because it is stiff enough for the blade to throw it. Actually, the thinner the strips, the less the danger or so it seems.

Danny Burns

02-13-2009, 9:12 PM

Hi,

I was wondering what any long time users of table saws would recommend would be the narrowest strip one could safely cut on a cabinet saw?

Why are you wondering???:confused::confused::confused:

Dave Bureau

02-14-2009, 7:30 AM

I cut 1/16" strips all the time on my sawstop. some time so close to my Incra fence that I have to put the saw in override mode.

Larry Browning

02-14-2009, 8:02 AM

OK then are there any scenarios in which I could lop off a finger, even when using push blocks or sticks?
Danial,
Anytime there is a razor sharp piece of metal being driven at a high rate of speed (well any rate of speed for that matter) there is always a danger of serious injury. If this is a big problem for you, then woodworking may not be for you. This is the nature of the sport. Even working wood with un-powered tools can be very dangerous. The best we can do is be VERY aware of these dangers and to operate our tools with this in mind all the time. A good rule of thumb to keep you thumb is "if the operation does not feel safe, then find another way to do it"