Shop Location - What Would You Do?

[Douglas Robinson]

Well, we're moving next week to a bigger house. I have two options for the location of my shop. The first is in the third bay of a three car garage. The second is in the basement.

If I use the garage I will have to build a dividing wall and install a heat pump to control the summer and winter climate. I will have easy access through the garage door.

If I use part of the basement, I will have more room with the climate controlled by the built in HVAC. The basement is presently completely unfinished. I will have to frame it have it inspected, have it wired walled and insulated (especially the shop the prevent the noise from traveling throughout the house). The basement has at least 9 foot ceilings and has a walk-up exit to the back yard. The shop would not connect directly with the walk-up exit and would require bringing materials/tools through the main room.

What would you do?

[Larry Browning]

Basement, More trouble at first, but it sounds way better for the long run.

[Steven Wilson]

If the walk up exit is via double wide doors and isn't real steep then I would choose the basement. If the walk up exit is a single wide door, or is very steep and/or long then I would either consider a remodel or plan on not obtaining very heavy tools.

[Jason Tuinstra]

Another vote for the basement!

[Jim Becker]

Yea, the tradeoff is space versus access. If you can deal with the access and know you can handle material, tools and projects out your basement access, choose the basement and make the shop as large as you can...or are allowed to. :D

[Chris Padilla]

Douglas,

Interesting situation you have...I hope to have that very same situation in a couple of years. You see, I don't have a basement...but I want one. Apparently they don't put basements in California homes...go figure.:confused: :(

My thought process was to put wide stairs from my garage into the basement and put my shop down there. In fact, the most logical place to start the tunneling under my house is through the concrete garage floor.

Since I don't have a basement, the laundry and HVAC equipment is all in the garage and takes up the whole smalle outcropping I have there. I thought to move that crap into the basement to free up the space. Then I thought about all that space in the basement for a shop! :eek: Then I thought about hauling large stuff into/out of the basement! :( Then I was thinking...how about some not-too-steep, wide stairs into the basement...from the garage!! Brilliant! :D :) :D :)

We'll see what happends...it is a ways away from happening. If you see Cisco stock solidly in the 30s, just know that I'm cashing in and will set the ball rolling on a basement install! :rolleyes:

[Jerry Olexa]

My situation was almost identical to you a few years ago in my present home. Consider that I live in a northern climate (Illinois) so temp control was an issue. I opted for the 3rd stall of garage (primarily for access) and installed a garage heater. After 3 years of actual use, I find myself switching almost 80% to the basement . Consider: gluing operations (the garage heater is good but hard to be 100% effective in cold Chicago winters and somewhat expensive/ineffective w 12 tf ceilings) as well as the precision router table set/up operations and the easy in-place(stable) temp control for the operator (you). So after 3 years I vote BASEMENT but I still keep my Delta table saw (mostly for sheet goods and ripping)and a small workbench in the garage plus at times, its just more FUN to work in the garage on a rainy summer day!! In Effect, I'm saying Basement for your major workshop (you even have access) but keep a small working area/bench/saw in the 3rd stall. Let us know what you decide! The good news is you have the luxury of space to make the decision. Enjoy it either way. Jerry

[Kelly C. Hanna]

Unless you can directly access the basement through a normal door, I'd choose the garage and mobile bases on everything. I can't imagine having to take lumber and tools through the house everytime you want to work in the shop.

I also wouldn't advise the wall. If you have ever gone into a walk in fridge in a restaurant, you'll know that they make plastic flaps to keep the cooling in the walk in....this is what I would use between the garage stalls. It would allow you to expand the shop into the entire garage when necessary. A good window unit can cool the garage fine (even in mine and I live in Texas) and you can pipe in heat via a forced air gas unit.

[Michael Barry]

What's a basement? Come to think of it what's an SWMBO?

[Mike Kelley]

I recommend space over convenience, i.e., the basement. I have one bay of a 3-car garage and it is not enough room. If you go for a garage, I suggest no wall. I am always backing the cars out and taking over the whole garage when I work.

[Dan Mages]

I also cast a vote for the basement. it will be a pain moving things up and down, but the space is important. I dont have any basement space to use and I have a 1.5 car garage.

Dan

[Tim Morton]

I wonder why noone would suggest having two smaller shops? Use the 3rd bay for sheetgoods anf rough cutting...maybe even jointing. Then build your shop in the basement. it would cut WAY down on sawdust in the house, and save you from having to drag large pieces of wood through what i assume witll be the entertainment room.

[Tyler Howell]

Advantages of the garage is access, spreading out and seperation from the main living quarters. The devider can open into the other bays of your garage for major activities like Jason's sky scraper dovetails. Then have your comfort controlled third bay for every day activies.
Access is major in my book. Ain't nothing like bending sheet goods around corners and down stairs to mill it up.:( Living with the bye products of your hobby is a challenge. I've learned to live with the smells and dust of having the shop in the house, grows on you.There's a lot you can do to minimize the dust. But it's there.

[Rob Russell]

Douglas,

It sounds like the space you'd get in your basement is significantly larger than your 1 car garage stall. My workshop area has always been in the basement and that's what I'd probably recommend for you too. Here are some pros and cons of a basement shop and some things to think about if you decide to work in the garage.

Basement Pros
Space - it sounds as if you would get "significantly" more space by putting your shop in the basement. This, to me, is the most important reason for becoming a cellar dweller vs. the garage.
Space #2 - it leaves that 3rd bay open for your Plum Crazy Hemi 'Cuda Convertible. We have a 3rd car (not counting the truck) that's in a storage unit because we only have a 2 car garage. I'd never consider giving up a garage bay for shop space unless that were truly my absolutely, only, got-no-other option.
Ceiling height - for me this has been an issue. For you, with 9' ceilings, the basement shop shop be fine. You're going to lose some height due to insulation (heat and sound) and lighting, but you'll have 8'+ clear height. Man, what I would I give for that. The height to the bottom of the floor trusses in my new shop is 78". That's a low ceiling.
Dust control - it's a lot easier to keep wood dust in a confined area like a basement instead of an open garage. I say open because, if you did go with the garage, I'd say you were crazy to wall off a bay. More on that later.
Security - It's a lot easier to hide expensive toys in your basement than in the garage.
Spread factor - sometimes, when you're in the middle of a project - you have to leave stuff spread out all over the place. The advantage of a basement shop is that you can do that and it's not an issue to park your car(s) that night. There is something to be said about a shop where you are forced to pick stuff up very night - forces a sort of order. YMMV.

Basement Cons
Moisture - I run a dehumidifier in our basement all spring and summer long. This summer I'll be painting the walls in the new shop with Drylock to act as a vapor barrier (at least it will slow the vapor transfer down). That may not be an issue for you.
Ventilation - I have 3 of those smallish windows plus the cut-through from the old basement. That's it. If I want to work with stuff down there that's not nice to breath, a fan forced system is a must. With a garage, you may also want a fan but opening the garage door gives you a big hole to get fumes out of. BTW, this has never been a big problem.
Light - similarly to ventilation, you will be primarily dependent on artifical light in a basement shop. A garage shop would also need lighting, but you don't have that "open the door for lots of light" ability. Again, has never been a big problem for me.
Access - ahhhh - now we get to the biggie. It is a nuisance to shlep all my lumber down to the basement. Having the tools down there isn't a big deal, because that's where you use them. For the few tools I use in the garage, I have duplicates. Garage-only tools (hydraulic jack or impact wrench, for example) are stored out there. I have an air line from my compressor in the shop piped up to the garage, so compressed air is available in both locations. Having said that it's a nuisance, it's not impossible. It sounds like you have reasonable access with your stairs. Just to prove that you can get just about anything down the stairs into the basement, I've attached a pic of a machine going down our stairs. I'll pretty much guarantee that this is larger than most machines you're likely to see in a home shop. If I could get this (1500 lbs, 33"Wx30+"Hx7+') into the basement, you can get pretty much anything you want into the basement.

Garage Pros
Flexible Space - as long as you don't wall off the bay for your workshop, you have the ability to expand into the other bays if you are working on a project that requires the space.
Delivery Access - there is no question that it's easier to get stuff from a truck in the driveway into your garage workshop than to anywhere else.

Good luck on your decision.

Rob

[Dan Mages]

Douglas,


Space #2 - it leaves that 3rd bay open for your Plum Crazy Hemi 'Cuda Convertible. We have a 3rd car (not counting the truck) that's in a storage unit because we only have a 2 car garage. I'd never consider giving up a garage bay for shop space unless that were truly my absolutely, only, got-no-other option.Good luck on your decision.

Rob

Although it is slightly off topic. The Hemi 'Cuda did not come in Plum Crazy. Plum Crazy was the Dodge name for the colour. The Plymouth name is In-Violet Metallic ;)

Dan

[Rob Russell]

Although it is slightly off topic. The Hemi 'Cuda did not come in Plum Crazy. Plum Crazy was the Dodge name for the colour. The Plymouth name is In-Violet Metallic ;)

Dan

OK - so I'd have an In-Violet Metallic Hemi 'Cuda Convertible sitting in the garage. That would work for me. :D

[Mike Johnson - Chicago]

I just had to add a quick not about Rob's:

"If I could get this (1500 lbs, 33"Wx30+"Hx7+') into the basement, you can get pretty much anything you want into the basement."

I just moved from a basement to a garage...and 2 weeks later, I'm still feeling it! Wrestling cast-iron back out is a mother! Not to mention finger and toe cruncher :-)

In other words, just because you *can* get it in the basement, doesn't necesarily mean you should (or that you won't regret it) :-)

On a different note, in my new shop (40'x24' / 2) I have a divider wall that seperates it into 2 20'x24' areas (garage & shop). But since my garage is length-wise, I put in a pocket door. I am SO thankful that I did. It makes moving tools and materials in and out effortless (compared to the basement). I guess the grass is always greener...but at this point I am loving being out in the garage!

Regards,
M.J.

[Rob Russell]

I just had to add a quick note about Rob's:

"If I could get this (1500 lbs, 33"Wx30+"Hx7+') into the basement, you can get pretty much anything you want into the basement."

I just moved from a basement to a garage...and 2 weeks later, I'm still feeling it! Wrestling cast-iron back out is a mother! Not to mention finger and toe cruncher :-)

In other words, just because you *can* get it in the basement, doesn't
necesarily mean you should (or that you won't regret it) :-)

...

M.J.

M.J.,

At the point in time that the machinery needs to leave the basement, it'll just be a reverse of the process to get it down. I may even save the moving skids (put 'em in the shed or something) so I don't have to build them again.

The only difference will be a more powerful winch. The one I got for the purposes of moving machines down the stairs just needed to be strong enough to hold the machines' weight and control the slide down the rails. That winch isn't powerful enough to yank them back out. Not a biggie. A winch capable of pulling 4000 lbs isn't that expensive, even if I just get a 12 volt bumper mount and run it off a car battery.

One of the reasons I had no crunched fingers and my back wasn't sore was that I setup the rigging so the winch, gravity and the pallet jack were doing the work.

Rob

[Douglas Robinson]

Thanks for everyone's input. Here is a little more information:

The third bay I am thinking of using is the furtherest from the entry into the house, so there would be no traffic through the shop. If I built a partition wall in the garage I would indeed install a pocket door.

I build mostly furniture.

There are two windows into the garage. I do not know the exact ceiling heights or dimensions, or either location, but will measure them today or tomorrow.

The entry to the basement is double wide and a straight shot, e.g., no switchbacks.

SWMBO has been great so far. Her only comment was when we were looking at the basement and I showed her where I wanted to put up the walls of the shop. "Do you really need that much room?" I am truly torn. maybe the additional detailed information will help me make the decision.

[Rich Konopka]

If I may add a couple of comments about my experience over the past year in building a basement shop. I ruled out a garage shop because of the extreme weather in Connecticut during the winter. Another consideration of the garage is that you have to pay attention to the floor and whether it is level. Most floors in a garage are pitched to allow for water/melted snow to drain out.

My basement has been cursed with water problems. First, I had the aquastat on the water heater let go and pour gallons and gallons of hot water into the basement. My house is less than 5 years old and it was airtight which caused a sauna effect. My tablesaw developed rust in a matter of minutes. A Dehumidifier, WD-40 and 000 steel wool fixed that issue. However, I had to have a pan with a shutoff valve installed to prevent further mishaps with the water heater. You know Murphy's law...

Next, I had the pump for the air conditioner condenser stop working and the water condensation sure puddles quickly.

Just a couple of things to consider. I have taken precautions and I'm still charging forward with my shop in the basement.

My biggest concern has been how I am going to convince my friends to help me carry down the new DJ20.

Rich

[Chris Padilla]

My biggest concern has been how I am going to convince my friends to help me carry down the new DJ20.

RichRich,

Spirits and vittles was always good encouragment for me! :D

[James Carmichael]

What's a basement :confused:

[Rich Konopka]

Rich,

Spirits and vittles was always good encouragment for me! :D
Chris:

If a had In-N-Out Burgers in Connecticut I would have no trouble convincing them. Yummm. I guess I'll have to treat them to some New England Lobsters with Sam Adams.

Rich

[Paul Held]

Doug,

My shop is in the basement as well, has been for a number of years. Despite not having a walk out I have managed to get a Delta cabinet saw, a 3 hp dust collector, PwerMatic 3520 lathe, etc etc. in the basement. The only trouble I had was with 4 x 8 sheet goods, which were to long and wide to make the two 90 degree turns. It was not until this year that we remodeled and I now have a walk out. With a walkout I figure it will be snap to get stuff in and out. Paul

[JayStPeter]

I just built a basement shop (well, still need to run DC and compressed air plumbing). I have a double width entry down steps right into the shop. I was able to use a regular dolley with pneumatic tires ($40 from Lowes) to get most of my equipment down there myself. That includes Unisaw and 8" Grizzly jointer. On the jointer, I almost lost it a couple of times. Would've been smart to have help. On my G0513 bandsaw, I got help. Too large. I would definitely need help to get all of them out. I could barely get the 6" jointer out when I got rid of it.

I did some soundproofing. I wound up following the methods outlined in the last FWW Tools and Shops issue (although before the issue came out). Stuff down there can still be heard, but it isn't annoying. According to my wife, it was much more annoying when it came from the Garage in our old house.

Rob,
I'm interested in the rig you used to get your large stuff down there. I'm considering a combo jointer/planer in the future. The only problem I see is getting it in/out the basement. Got any more pics/descriptions of your setup?

Jay

[Chris Padilla]

Jay,

How about some more info on the soundproofing you did...pics? :)

[Chris Padilla]

Chris:

If a had In-N-Out Burgers in Connecticut I would have no trouble convincing them. Yummm. I guess I'll have to treat them to some New England Lobsters with Sam Adams.

Rich
Ah, you know about In-n-Out! Yeah, the wife and I usually go there at least once a week...have one, oh, about 3 miles from the house! :D

[Rich Konopka]

Yeah, I get to sample them when I go out to corporate which is usually twice a year. Right off 101 in Mtn. View.

[Rob Russell]

My biggest concern has been how I am going to convince my friends to help me carry down the new DJ20.


Whatever you do - don't lift/carry the jointer by the tables! You can do permanent damage to the ways if you carry it by the tables.





Rob,
I'm interested in the rig you used to get your large stuff down there. I'm considering a combo jointer/planer in the future. The only problem I see is getting it in/out the basement. Got any more pics/descriptions of your setup?

Jay

Actually, that picture is of a combo jointer/planer heading down the stairs. Short and sweet version is:
install a set of heavy (1/4" thick, 2"x2") tube stock as rails
build a wooden moving sled to slide down the rails
mount the machine on the moving sled
hook a winch to a big tree in the back yard
hook the winch to the machine (not the sled)
use the winch to control the slide down the rails
use a pallet jack for moving the machine/sled around


I'm working on a document with pictures for another forum, but that's taken longer than I'd hoped based on some other priorities.

Rob

[JayStPeter]

Jay,

How about some more info on the soundproofing you did...pics? :)

Chris,

The short version is lots of insulation. I used resilient channel on the ceiling and built a staggered stud wall to split the basement (I only got to use a little less than 1/2).

I plan on doing a whole write up and I have lots of pics. But, here's a preview of what it looks like now with some of my stuff in there. It's gonna fill up fast when I'm done.

Jay

[Douglas Robinson]

Thanks for everyone's comments, although I'll skip the in and Out burgers. After I decided to put the shop in the garage and had moved about 1/3 of the small stuff there, I noticed that the access to the attic above the garage was located between two of the car bays. Therefore, i could not put a wall there unless I moved the access door. So I decided the shop was going in the basement.

The basement is completely unfinished. It has 9' 6" ceilings and I hope to use about 1/4 of the basement for the shop, SWMBO willing. There are two small windows that provide some natural light. The exterior walls have floor-to-ceiling insulation.

I am interested in Jay's basement project. Please post pictures and explain what you have done!

Doug

[JayStPeter]

I will post pics. I was going to wait until I finish my DC ductwork and post a start to finish type thing. I got 9' ceilings in my basement (actually came out to 8'10"+). But, I sure wish I had gotten them just a little taller. 9'6" should give you a little more room to maneuver plywood under lights/ductwork/etc. All that stuff sits at about 8'4" for me.
The most important thing at the start for me was Dust Collection. Being near the furnace I wanted to be sure the dust was dealt with. Once I started construction, it became clear that noise should be the priority (the saw was waking up the kids). Had to regroup and do some soundproofing research. There was an effect on budget too. Lots of insulation, solid core doors, and resilient channel. You can do some soundproofing research at www.soundproofing.org. It's a little bit annoying layout, and a little over the top, but the fundamentals are there. FWW also did an article on soundproofing a basement shop in the Dec. tools and shops issue. It's essentially what I did.
I skimped in a few areas that I thought I could go back later if necessary. My goal wasn't to make it soundproof, but to keep it from being annoying above. We'll see. Right now, you can hear that the planer is on from above. But, it isn't like it is right there. Kids will definitely be able to sleep through it. If it winds up being annoying, I have some options to make it better (2nd layer of drywall on ceiling, more insulation in the duct runs).
I'm a couple of weeks out from finishing the duct work. If you want to see some pics and descriptions earlier, I'll be glad to send you some. Just contact me using email.

Jay

[Chris Padilla]

Thanks, Jay...look forward to the write-up. Since I'm considering a basement shop in the future (WAY out), I'd like to see what you did. Currently, I'm in the process of ripping apart my garage for a full-blown remodel and I want to take note of sound proofing options for that.

[Les Derusha]

Yup, getting stuff in and out is a hassle BUT 35 years and NOTHING RUSTS.

[Bart Leetch]

M.J.,

At the point in time that the machinery needs to leave the basement, it'll just be a reverse of the process to get it down. I may even save the moving skids (put 'em in the shed or something) so I don't have to build them again.

The only difference will be a more powerful winch. The one I got for the purposes of moving machines down the stairs just needed to be strong enough to hold the machines' weight and control the slide down the rails. That winch isn't powerful enough to yank them back out. Not a biggie. A winch capable of pulling 4000 lbs isn't that expensive, even if I just get a 12 volt bumper mount and run it off a car battery.

One of the reasons I had no crunched fingers and my back wasn't sore was that I setup the rigging so the winch, gravity and the pallet jack were doing the work.

Rob

Use a longer cable a snatch block & double your power. You don't need a stronger winch.

[Gary Muto]

Lucky guy. There are not too many full basements in Raleigh. It would be a tough call for me since you can work outside in raleigh 12 months, just not everyday in January and July. I lived there for almost two years.
Being a true northerner, I would likely opt for the basement.