Waaaa!! I bent my Lenox Trimaster!

[Chris Padilla]

So I was humming along slicing through some old gnarly walnut chunks and WHAMMO!!, something went wrong.

A chunk of wood broke off as it was being resawed, was caught on a tooth or two of the blade, and was carried down into the table opening and proceeded to bust that up and at the same time bend up a small section of the blade. :(

No teeth came off the blade nor were chipped but you can see that a good 4-5" of the blade got twisted in the melee.

This blade is still brand new and so I'm wondering if it can be repaired. I've got an email into Lenox and Suffolk to see what they say about repairing it. This is a 2/3 var pitch, 1" wide blade on my MM20.

Anyone here have any thoughts? My guess would be to either pound it out straight or cut out the bent section and weld in a new section. I just need to find someone able to do it....

[Doug Shepard]

That's enough to ruin your day for you. From the pics it appears to be bent more side-to-side rather than along it's lenght. Dont know for sure but I would think that would be easier to fix than a big kink along it's length. Let us know what Lenox tells you in case I ever ruin my day like that.

[Chris Padilla]

Doug,

That is correct...it has a twist put into it. I'm wondering if I should take a hammer and anvil/dolly to it to see if I can flatten it out? I'm no body man but I know I would end up hitting the carbide!!

[Joe Jensen]

Much sadness. If it were mine, I'd send it in and have a new section welded in. I see that it destroyed your zero clearance insert too. Some serious force and I assume some excitement too. At lest you are unharmed...joe

[Chris Padilla]

Joe,

Yeah, I am unharmed but had to retire that pair of underwear! ;) There was some plastic shrapnel flying around the shop--the remnants of my insert! I'm thinking the "cut out the bad section & weld in a new section" is also the best way to go.

[Rod Sheridan]

Chris, you need to put a positive spin on this.

You can cut the blade into 18 equal segments, grind the teeth off, and make some really nice thin kerf parting tools for your lathe!

Or.............Sorry to hear about your blade, lennox should be able to repair it for you....Rod.

[Chris Padilla]

Rod,

I'm a bit unclear...a lathe? Is that there one of them spinny thing contraptions?? I dunno how that ever caught on but wood was born to be FLAT! ;) :D hahaha

I'm hoping Lenox or someone out there can fix it. It would be nice to find a local outfit that I could trust but I'm willing to ship 'er out if I have to....

[Mike Henderson]

Sorry to see that problem, Chris. I've done similar things on narrow blades on my (small) bandsaw.

One technical question, if you'll permit me. How do you ship a 1" blade? I don't imagine you can fold it into three loops like we do with small blades.

Mike

[Rob Cunningham]

Chris,
That sucks but at least you weren't hurt. New underwear is cheap. I would have the bad section cut out and a new piece welded in. Once there is a kink in the metal it's pretty hard to straighten it out. You could end up ruining your blade guides.

[Peter Quadarella]

I have a 3/4" Tri-Master blade that folds up the same way as the smaller ones - I don't see an issue with folding a 1 incher.

[Chris Padilla]

Mike,

The blade actually came folded into 5 loops! I don't know how to do that but I can get 'er into 3 no problem.

I'm pretty much in agreement with y'all: have a nice new clean section welded in...now to find someone to do it....

[Doug Shepard]

I have a 3/4" Tri-Master blade that folds up the same way as the smaller ones - I don't see an issue with folding a 1 incher.

Except that them teeth bite even harder:D

Chris
The only idea that comes to mind is maybe really tightening up on the tension and clamping some MDF on either side of the blade but behind the teeth. Then start grunting and turning the upper wheel by hand trying to draw the blade through the MDF which would get stopped at the table. Maybe you could flatten some of the worst of it out that way??

[Jamie Baalmann]

Glad you weren't hurt Chris. Have you figured out what it caught yet? Nail, burl, knot?

[Chris Padilla]

A large limb protruding from the hunk of of gnarled up walnut was slowly being slabbed up as I cut this hunk into 1"+ slabs. As it got thinner and thinner, it broke free and got stuck in the teeth and then was slammed into the table top insert thus busting that and at the same time bending my blade. In other words, there was no support under this...hence why it broke free.

I know, I know...Ima you-know-what but I lived...and I learned. I've got a buddy razzing me about it but I'm only putting up with it because he is going to get me the name of the local outfit that sold him his Trimaster (they weld up whatever size you need from a coil):



I’ve had them break at the weld. That’s the most common bandsaw disaster. Nope and I don’t think I know of anyone else that bent the [stuffing] out a bandsaw blade. That seems like it takes a special person. I’m going to give back those 10 points I deducted and give you 100 points for originality. JJ

[Robert LaPlaca]

Thank goodness nobody got hurt . My pocketbook feels your pain, that is one expensive blade to wreck.

[Mike Spanbauer]

Ouch Chris, that bites.

I've a pair of Tr-masters from a guy who was selling them out from a previous deal down in AZ. If you're interested, I'd let you have one at cost (about 1/2 of new) (it needs to be cut and rewelded shorter).

That way you could have a spare in the event you're in need ;)

I don't like the silly ZCI on the MM anyway, but I'm glad you didn't destroy anything else. How about the plywood TK insert in the lower housing?

mike

[Jim Becker]

Bummer...I did a number on mine awhile when it slipped off the guides that were improperly adjusted (my bad...) and it bit into the lower door...made of steel...on my MM16.

That said, unless you were resawing the wood with it either flattened on the table side or held securely in a jig, that's not the right blade for the job. Straight cuts only in dry wood. Wet work is better done using a blade like the Timberwolf AS series which is made for wet wood. 'Still need to secure the stock, however...

[Chris Padilla]

Ouch Chris, that bites.

I've a pair of Tr-masters from a guy who was selling them out from a previous deal down in AZ. If you're interested, I'd let you have one at cost (about 1/2 of new) (it needs to be cut and rewelded shorter).

That way you could have a spare in the event you're in need ;)

I don't like the silly ZCI on the MM anyway, but I'm glad you didn't destroy anything else. How about the plywood TK insert in the lower housing?

mike

That plywood TK insert seems to be okay although it isn't so TK any more! That one is easy to make if I need to. I guess I'll shell out for another ZCI or maybe make my own...not sure.

You have a PM regarding your offer. :D

[Chris Padilla]

Bummer...I did a number on mine awhile when it slipped off the guides that were improperly adjusted (my bad...) and it bit into the lower door...made of steel...on my MM16.

That said, unless you were resawing the wood with it either flattened on the table side or held securely in a jig, that's not the right blade for the job. Straight cuts only in dry wood. Wet work is better done using a blade like the Timberwolf AS series which is made for wet wood. 'Still need to secure the stock, however...


The FS41-Elite took care of flattening the gnarly chunk and providing a 90 degree reference. Yeah, the wood was still wet but the Trimaster took care of it with no issues so I kept going. The problem was a weak part of the log that had no support under it and it broke off prematurely. Lesson learned! :(

[Bruce Page]

What the heck did you go and do that for? :p

Having had some experience in this sort of thing :rolleyes:, your only option is to have a new section welded in. It isn’t a big deal other than not having the blade for a time and a few $$.
One of my “round to it” shop projects is to remove the table off of mine and machine a nice SQUARE throat recess in to it and make a few phenolic throat plates, like I did on my little Rikon. The MM setup with their molded plastic throat plate leaves a lot to be desired.

[Mike Cutler]

Chris

Sorry about the blade, sometimes "stuff" happens. Good to know you're okay. I have that blade on my bandsaw also, and it's the only band saw blade, other than a meat cutting blade, I've ever used that sorta scares me. That is one wicked blade.

It seems to me though that I recall Mark Singer once referring to a service that did blade repairs. You may want to PM him. Hopefully my memory is good on this one.

[Chris Padilla]

I went back and reread all the posts here and I was actually surprised to hear all the notes of "glad you weren't hurt" in the posts.

While I thank you for the kind words and concern, I have to say that at no time did I feel in danger at all. My soiled undies' comment was made in jest. I was far from the blade at the time of the incident as I had just started the cut. This was a "chunk of meat" of walnut so it didn't even budge when the blade mangled and then the bandsaw made funny noises each time the bent portion passed through the guides. I can only imagine some kind of similar incident like this on my table saw! Now I'm not trying to downplay the safety issues with a bandsaw but it is so much more comfortable for me to use over the table saw. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing but I love the "no kickback to worry about" aspect of a bandsaw! I also find dust collection on the bandsaw to be far superior to the table saw. No wonder those Europeans seem to centralize their shops around the bandsaw! :)

[Charlie Plesums]

Welcome to the club. I have a 178 inch TriMaster with a couple teeth bent so slightly that I can't find them, but bent enough that the cut looks like it was done with a chain saw. I was making slices of a segmented cylinder for turning, and one of the segments broke out.

Lenox couldn't/wouldn't help. Their dealers were willing to sell me a half dozen new triMasters at a good price (don't they understand one is a big deal to some of us). You may be able to find a dealer who will do two welds plus sell one or two feet of blade, but I would worry about the tolerances of a new section coming off a different spool. A bargain sale of a shortened blade to someone with a MM16 or other smaller bandsaw may be the best solution.

Suffolk has a sharpening service for carbide blades, but they didn't think they could find/fix my bent teeth. Their expert said to cut a slot the width of the tooth in a piece of aluminum, and use it as a lever to straighten the tooth. Nice idea, if I could find which tooth/teeth.

After I killed my second TriMaster (another long sad story), I ended up getting a Lenox Woodmaster CT, arguably better than the TriMaster, expecially when you consider that it is 30-40% cheaper. And I could make someone a great deal in a 178 inch TriMaster that cuts like a chain saw. Maybe when I retire and have nothing to do I will play with it. Ooops - I have been retired for several years, but I am too busy....

[Peter Quadarella]

I'm with you Chris, bandsaws rule! :D I love that I never have to hold anything too tight, since if I let go, nothing happens.

[James White]

Chris,

Glad you were not hurt. Don't hammer on it till you hear from Lenox. There is a procedure used on band saw mills called rolling. I imagine it is some kind of machine like an english wheel. But it is used to create or reverse the crown of the band to help with tracking if I recall. Ill see if I can find a thread on one of the forestry forums to refer to.

James

[James White]

Here is some info on it.

http://www.cookssaw.com/Articles/sawmill-blades.php

James

[Chris Padilla]

Welcome to the club. I have a 178 inch TriMaster with a couple teeth bent so slightly that I can't find them, but bent enough that the cut looks like it was done with a chain saw. I was making slices of a segmented cylinder for turning, and one of the segments broke out.

Lenox couldn't/wouldn't help. Their dealers were willing to sell me a half dozen new triMasters at a good price (don't they understand one is a big deal to some of us). You may be able to find a dealer who will do two welds plus sell one or two feet of blade, but I would worry about the tolerances of a new section coming off a different spool. A bargain sale of a shortened blade to someone with a MM16 or other smaller bandsaw may be the best solution.

Suffolk has a sharpening service for carbide blades, but they didn't think they could find/fix my bent teeth. Their expert said to cut a slot the width of the tooth in a piece of aluminum, and use it as a lever to straighten the tooth. Nice idea, if I could find which tooth/teeth.

After I killed my second TriMaster (another long sad story), I ended up getting a Lenox Woodmaster CT, arguably better than the TriMaster, expecially when you consider that it is 30-40% cheaper. And I could make someone a great deal in a 178 inch TriMaster that cuts like a chain saw. Maybe when I retire and have nothing to do I will play with it. Ooops - I have been retired for several years, but I am too busy....

Charlie,

Thanks for your experienced thoughts. That is not a half-bad idea about rewelding the blade for a different bandsaw. Any takers here on da Creek? :D I have to tell you, this Trimaster is brand-spanking new--very few bf have been run through it.

As to your bent teeth, I have an idea: how about making up a block with sandpaper (or whatever abrasive) on it that you can slowly advance on the blade as it is spinning and you might be able to trim the proud teeth.

I may need to look into that Woodmaster....

[Chris Padilla]

Chris,

Glad you were not hurt. Don't hammer on it till you hear from Lenox. There is a procedure used on band saw mills called rolling. I imagine it is some kind of machine like an english wheel. But it is used to create or reverse the crown of the band to help with tracking if I recall. Ill see if I can find a thread on one of the forestry forums to refer to.

James

Thanks for the article, James. I'm not touching it until I hear from someone more experienced that myself. We'll see.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

send it out and have it cut and welded - pieced if necessary.

[Thomas S Stockton]

I would call Hastings saws in Rohnert Park they really know there stuff and see what they say. www.hastingssaws.com
Tom

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
my Lenox dealer repairs the Trimasters....

Industrial Blade & Product Co
Write a review
2230 Ritchey St
Santa Ana, CA 92705
(714) 557-4131‎
(714) 557-4137‎

Get directions: To here - From here
Edit New!

©2008 Google - Map data ©2008 Tele Atlas - Terms of Use
View Larger Map

[Mark Singer]

Chris

Sorry about the blade, sometimes "stuff" happens. Good to know you're okay. I have that blade on my bandsaw also, and it's the only band saw blade, other than a meat cutting blade, I've ever used that sorta scares me. That is one wicked blade.

It seems to me though that I recall Mark Singer once referring to a service that did blade repairs. You may want to PM him. Hopefully my memory is good on this one.
Yes mike the cells are working:rolleyes:

[Charlie Plesums]

Charlie,

...
As to your bent teeth, I have an idea: how about making up a block with sandpaper (or whatever abrasive) on it that you can slowly advance on the blade as it is spinning and you might be able to trim the proud teeth.

I may need to look into that Woodmaster....

The trimaster teeth are carbide, so I would need a diamond abrasive. But worse, the Trimaster teeth don't have a set... each tooth touches both sides of the kerf. After trying to think of a jig where I could find the couple teeth that are bent by a few thousandths, I finally realize I already have a jig that hold the blade tight and straight... the bandsaw itself. Now I need to invent a small shoe for a dial indicator that can measure each tooth as I manually rotate the blade. I know it is just a couple teeth because there is a bad scratch on one side of the cut that occurs each revolution of the blade (5000 feet per second, how many scratches per second of cutting)

[Chris Padilla]

I would call Hastings saws in Rohnert Park they really know there stuff and see what they say. www.hastingssaws.com (http://www.hastingssaws.com)
Tom

Tom,

Thanks...that is the exact place my razzing buddy just sent me the info on! I'm in San Jose and was hoping I could do a lunch run to take care of the blade but it looks like Brown will have to take care of it for me.

Any experience with this outfit in Hollister? http://bayareasaws.com/home.html

[Thomas S Stockton]

Chris,
Never used Bay Area Saws so can't help. Been using Hastings for almost 20 years and they do real nice work and are easy to deal with. I believe they sharpen them also. I get all my blades shipped to me from them but I use the bi-metal blades not carbide.
Tom

[Chris Padilla]

Well this has been interesting!

Hastings doesn't stock carbide coil to make up blades as it is too expensive. They simply order the needed size from Lenox and it arrives ready to ship out. He called Lenox and they wouldn't sell him a 1' piece of Trimaster material--unfortunately all he had on had was 1 1/4" wide Trimaster scraps. I did go ahead and order a Lenox Woodmaster CT from them since they were very nice to talk to and did a bit of footwork for me. :)

Bay Ares Saws only works on 3"+ blades and he doesn't stock Trimaster material either.

Mark Singer came through with his contact. I talked to "Paul" and apparently they do a lot of Lenox work so he told me to ship it on down to him and he'll turn it around the same day. He did ask me how new the blade was because there can be an issue with putting in a chunk of brand new sharp carbide amongst not-so-sharp carbide which makes the new section a bit grabby and can put stress on the welds. He said he needs to replace at least a foot but would go over the whole blade for me to make sure it was in good shape. I'm probably looking at around $20-30 for the new piece and repair plus shipping.

[Dino Drosas]

Chris,

You need to contact Louis Iturra at: Iturra Design, 4636 Fulton Road, Jacksonville Fl 32223-1332. 866-883-8064 He is the most knowledgeable person I know when it comes to bandsaws and the most helpful to boot. He also sells everything that has to do with bandsaws, and be sure to get his catalog(bandsaw bible).

Good luck, Dino Drosas

[Chris Padilla]

Ah, yes, Mr. Iturra's blue bible on bandsaws!! I have a catalog from 2004 or 2005 and hadn't thought of him...thanks for the reminder.

However, the damaged Trimaster has been shipped off to Santa Ana, CA, to Industrial Blade and Product Co. and I hope they get it in time Friday to ship it back out but either way, looks like I'll be doing other things this weekend.

I'll be sure to post pics of the fixed blade and resulting cut.

[Chris Padilla]

Mark's contact, Industrial Blade, just called me to tell me they are ready to ship me back my blade all fixed up! :D They ended up replacing 18" of my blade at a cost of $22 plus $7+ for shipping it back to me.

Since it sounds like Mark was happy with his repair, I fully plan to be thrilled with mine!

I'll post some pics of the repair when it arrives.

COOL

[Adam Grills]

Chris,
I have wrote off 5 blades over the past 4 yrs that were all very new. Between 1/4" and 1". All bent blades like yours with front to back bend as well, all due to unsupported work piece. I have tried straightening them but they cut nasty (good for roughing out burls that have dirt or possible rock) I just bought new blades. Buy less expensive blades (but not crap) for the risky stuff and good ones for the secure nice work. Good learning experience. I also buy new underwear and immidiately count my fingers. Bad things happen fast!
Grillzy

[Bruce Page]

Wow that is a good price. I've filed Industrial Blade just in case I'm ever in the same situation. Thanks to you & Mark for passing this along.

[Mark Singer]

Mark's contact, Industrial Blade, just called me to tell me they are ready to ship me back my blade all fixed up! :D They ended up replacing 18" of my blade at a cost of $22 plus $7+ for shipping it back to me.

Since it sounds like Mark was happy with his repair, I fully plan to be thrilled with mine!

I'll post some pics of the repair when it arrives.

COOL

Chris,
When you replace a section of a blade, there are 2 welds instead of just one. This blade will usually show a flutter as the section runs through. It is never as good as a new blade. It should be very usable. Industrial Blade is the Trimaster dealer that supplies Jesse at Eagle Tools on the Aggazani's. The quality is good. Lets see how it runs when you get it back

[Chris Padilla]

Roger that, Mark. I'll check it out. I hope it still is as good as before but I'll temper my enthusiasm just a tad. I do have a Woodmaster CT on order....

[Mark Singer]

Roger that, Mark. I'll check it out. I hope it still is as good as before but I'll temper my enthusiasm just a tad. I do have a Woodmaster CT on order....
The Olson MVP is a terrific blade also

[Chris Padilla]

The Olson MVP is a terrific blade also

http://www.allbandsawblades.com/olson_mvp_blades.htm

I'm always on the look out for a good thin-kerf resaw blade but according to the above, the max length is 150" for some odd reason. That'll be 18" too short for my MM20.

Tell me about your use of this blade, Mark.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris,

You can order special order blades directly from Olson or your local Olson dealer can order them for you. I ordered 3 154" bi-metal blades from them at the recommendation of Mark Duginske. MM-16 owner me...

[Chris Padilla]

I just emailed Olson and they said they can make the blade longer despite their own website claiming a max of 150". They guy responding to me said: "We can make the blade longer than 150", who said we couldn't?" hahaha

What is the exact name of the Olson bi-metals you picked up, Ken? How have they done for resawing for you? The carbides are nice for sure but do have a decent kerf to them. It is a balance of a clean cut, minimal kerf to maximize yield from a plank of lumber and that is what I'm trying to figure out.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris,

I haven't put one on yet. Been too busy doing other things.

Check the PM I'm sending you.

[Dar Lounsbury]

Rod,

I'm a bit unclear...a lathe? Is that there one of them spinny thing contraptions?? I dunno how that ever caught on but wood was born to be FLAT! ;) :D hahaha
.

"Born to be FLAT" and it grows round why?

[Chris Padilla]

"Born to be FLAT" and it grows round why?

'tis a quandary that only the Almighty can answer, Dar! ;)

[Mark Singer]

Chris where is that Trimaster?

The MVP is a good blade for cutting curves. It does not dimension, resaw or rip like the Trimaster. You can resaw pretty well with it though. It cuts great even in hard wood. So for shaping chair legs or curved parts its great. I think Maloof and David Marks are using it or a similar bi metal.

Here is where I buy them and at super prices!
http://routerbitworld.com/

[Chris Padilla]

The Trimaster showed up on my porch last night. I haven't installed it or run it yet but here are my observations on the 18" replaced section:

One weld is difficult to see and feel. The other weld is easy to see and feels just a bit bumpy to me so I don't think the blade is going to be all that smooth any more. I dunno why the two welds are so different but the real proof will be in the cut. I'll slice off a thin veneer of my test fir plank and compare it to previous cuts.

I'll take some pics and get those up.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Chris,

Do you hone your blade?

I use a stone and hone the back and sides of the blade as per Mark Duginske's recommendations in his book. The welds on the stock blade that came with my MM-16 were pretty rough. After honing, they were barely noticeable and a lot smoother.

I checked my blades....the 1/4" and 3/8" are MVP Olsons....the 3/4" is their Pro Industrial bi-metal.

[Chris Padilla]

The Timberwolf blades I have appear to be "honed" as in the non-tooth side of the blade is very smooth and rounded over.

My Trimaster is also very smooth and appears to have been done this way from the factory.

As to the SIDES of the blade, no, I have not done that but it sounds like a great idea--especially after the repair.

[Mark Singer]

Chris,
How is it running?

[Charlie Plesums]

...
One weld is difficult to see and feel. The other weld is easy to see and feels just a bit bumpy to me so I don't think the blade is going to be all that smooth any more. I dunno why the two welds are so different but the real proof will be in the cut. I'll slice off a thin veneer of my test fir plank and compare it to previous cuts.....

The dealer you are working with sounds so good that I bet they will be interested in hearing about a defective weld, especially when you have a smooth and rough one 18 inches apart, and perhaps would want to try again if it doesn't work well.

Beware of honing the back of a Lenox blade... since they are factory honed, I hear Lenox considers it a modification of the blade that voids the warranty (although I don't know WHAT warranty).

[Chris Padilla]

Okay, I finally got around to messing with my recently repaired Trimaster blade.

The new welds are between my fingers. They are both a tad bumpy and running them on the saw I'm not sure I see much wobbling or anything on the blade.

I wasn't able to try a resaw test yet but I shall get to that and report back.

Oh, I picked up a couple more blades: the Woodmaster CT (1.3 tpi, 1", carbide, 0.051" kerf...smaller than the Trimaster's 0.063") and I thought I'd try a Diemaster 2 from Lenox. The Diemaster 2 was my best guess at what David Marks appears to use. He often mentions that he uses a 6 tpi bimetal blade and I see that his is pretty thin for the size of bandsaw he uses. The one I got is 1/2" wide, 0.025", 6 tpi, hook style.

I'm on a quest for a good resaw blade with minimal kerf. Ill be trying these out soon....

[Chris Padilla]

One more pic....