Rabbit Lasers

[Zac Altman]

I am currently talking to a lady at Jinan King Rabbit in China about their laser systems. I've been looking into the HX4060SE and the HX4060N. There is about a 1k difference between them (for me) but I cant really see what the real major difference between them is.

From what ive figured out, the HX4060N is the newer model (it does say "new" on the site and brochure). The N has a 60mm greater elevation depth and i believe it is more compact. But other than that i fail to see the difference that warrants the $1k extra. The only thing i can guess is that it is built better. Anyone know anything about this?

I am looking at adding the red dot pointer, the water cooling system and the truckle if the prices are reasonable. I will be getting a spare lens kit and a spare laser tube.

They say these machines can work with CorelDraw, AutoCAD and Photoshop, so i assume they now have drivers (just for these models) that work much the same as the epilog driver (as i said I can only imagine).

What is the quality of these engravers, like do they do detailed engravings well? How would you compare these to an Epilog or ULS or Trotec systems quality assuming you have the exact same source file?

With the laser tubes, how long (on average) will it take for them to start losing their power? well at least enough to effect my engravings? I know they wont last as well as the american ones, but how have you experiences been? (those who do have rabbit lasers)

Fume extraction...for this size of a system, what kind of fume extraction system would I have to get?? (im talking purex/fumex, i dont know of many others) Im mainly engraving aluminium, cermarked materials, plastics and the occasional wood or acrylic piece (maybe once or twice a month). As some of you may know I will be engraving iPods, iPhones, Laptops. So its that sort of plastic and aluminium. Also if there are any other brands that i should know of let me know! (for fume extractors)

Thats all for now, i would appreciate any help :D

[James Jaragosky]

I am currently talking to a lady at Jinan King Rabbit in China about their laser systems. I've been looking into the HX4060SE and the HX4060N. There is about a 1k difference between them (for me) but I cant really see what the real major difference between them is.

From what ive figured out, the HX4060N is the newer model (it does say "new" on the site and brochure). The N has a 60mm greater elevation depth and i believe it is more compact. But other than that i fail to see the difference that warrants the $1k extra. The only thing i can guess is that it is built better. Anyone know anything about this?

I am looking at adding the red dot pointer, the water cooling system and the truckle if the prices are reasonable. I will be getting a spare lens kit and a spare laser tube.

They say these machines can work with CorelDraw, AutoCAD and Photoshop, so i assume they now have drivers (just for these models) that work much the same as the epilog driver (as i said I can only imagine).

What is the quality of these engravers, like do they do detailed engravings well? How would you compare these to an Epilog or ULS or Trotec systems quality assuming you have the exact same source file?

With the laser tubes, how long (on average) will it take for them to start losing their power? well at least enough to effect my engravings? I know they wont last as well as the american ones, but how have you experiences been? (those who do have rabbit lasers)

Fume extraction...for this size of a system, what kind of fume extraction system would I have to get?? (im talking purex/fumex, i dont know of many others) Im mainly engraving aluminium, cermarked materials, plastics and the occasional wood or acrylic piece (maybe once or twice a month). As some of you may know I will be engraving iPods, iPhones, Laptops. So its that sort of plastic and aluminium. Also if there are any other brands that i should know of let me know! (for fume extractors)

Thats all for now, i would appreciate any help :D

I believe Pete Hagen Uses that model.
He would be the best source of information.

[Dan Hintz]

Red pointer is useful if the system can reliably move back to a specific location (not always the case). The Asian water chillers often are not chillers, just radiators, so watch yourself on that one. Don't bother ordering an extra tube... they often show up broken, and they're not known for having good shelf lives. If your current tube dies, pick up a (fairly) new one off of eBay for a few hundred $s. None of them are built better than the others, as quality control simply doesn't exist in those factories... you may get lucky, or you may get unlucky... expect plenty of loose parts when it arrives, particularly extra screws and washers (if the assembler drops something inside the machine, he/she simply grabs another and doesn't bother searching for what they lost... makes power supplies go BOOM when errant screws make their way into the cooling vents).

The spare lens is a good buy, if it's relatively inexpensive... say, $30-50.

[Zac Altman]

- The truckle is included with the N model.
- Red laser is $60 extra
- Extra Lens is $130 (lens and mirrors...)
- Extra Tube is $220
- Water Cooling System is $260 (looks from the pic attached to be an actual chiller) She says its more like a "conditioner"

As for getting a tube off ebay, no can do. In australia i dont think people are all that intelligent (as a whole) when it comes to getting things for cheaper. It seems that they all go for the popular brands (in the case of lasers, Epilogs, ULS, Trotec) so there wouldnt be many chinese laser here. So yeah, a search on eBay came with no results. My contact said that if it came broken, i just had to send a picture and they would send me a new one. I dont even have to send the broken one back.

No Australian plugs, so i think i will go for the US plugs (I have a fair few converters because I get things and go to the states often)

I included the "catalogues" (as attachments). Their rep has so far failed to tell me why the 4060N is "better" than the 4060SE besides the obvious elevation height.

***By intelligent you could also say that they are safer, they go with what they know***

EDIT:

The 4060N machine is our new model with new appearance and much development/improvement.

Compared to the 4060SE model, the 4060N is better for the integrity, the new model design with a new appearance, is developed more suitable for your operating.

It is developed for a bigger up and down value to 340mm that is about 60mm more than the 4060SE model.

It is improved with better parts for the worktable move up and down much smoother and with higher accuracy.
also the controlling operation can be much easier and simpler as that is designed to set the control panel and power swith seperately, that is more safe and also can avoid some operating accidents.

Do you all think it is worth the extra $1k??

Also, are these lasers harmful? I would like to take videos of the laser in action, but since the plastic cover is orange, would it be fine to leave it open and take the video like that? All im asking is will the laser harm me or the camera?

[Bill Cunningham]

Also, are these lasers harmful? I would like to take videos of the laser in action, but since the plastic cover is orange, would it be fine to leave it open and take the video like that? All im asking is will the laser harm me or the camera?

The laser 'should' stop working as soon as the door opens, or you 'could' be harmed.. You 'should' have to defeat the safety features (if any) to keep the door open.. It probaly won't harm the camera, but a reflection 'could' damage your eyes if it strikes you.. Wear safety glasses, most reflected and scattered beams will not pass through acrylic unless focused right on it, but there are some here that do have scars on their plastic covers.. Be careful..

[Dan Hintz]

A reflection could kill the camera's sensor... CMOS does not take kindly to high-IR levels.

[Rob Bosworth]

Wow, Zac. Are you trying to piss off all of your neighbors? What kind of statement is that, Aussies aren't intelligent enough to buy cheap stuff! I'm not even an Aussie, and that statement made me shudder.

[Zac Altman]

Wow, Zac. Are you trying to piss off all of your neighbors? What kind of statement is that, Aussies aren't intelligent enough to buy cheap stuff! I'm not even an Aussie, and that statement made me shudder.

To be honest I dont want to get into a giant argument about it, that isnt the point of the thread. I do admit that it sounds a lot worse than it did when I was writing it and I am sorry if I offended anyone, i should have said flat out that Australians are safer in the way they buy things. But please, leave it at this.

So far I have only had an answer to the camera question. (and thanks for that)

[Bob Davis]

Zac, I think you should go right ahead and buy the Rabit. Obviously you're a genius and won't have any problems that you can't overcome quickly and easily.
While you're busily importing stuff that has absolutely no local parts, knowledge or backup available (those attributes are hugely over-rated for a commercial setup), I suggest you also obtain a Tata motor vehicle from India at just $5k. Sure, it has grossly inadequate reliability, handling, braking, power, comfort and safety, but it's cheap! All those other consumers are just not using their intelligence!!!
And yes, I am Australian, I am being sarcastic, and I really dislike sycophants.

[Zac Altman]

mmmm. funny. but the thing is with cars you have the middle ground, there are a range of different cars at different prices. With the lasers, I either pay $2k for a cheap chinese one or $20k for the lowest of any other. Show me where the middle ground is. I would gladly pay smack bang in the middle maybe more, but hey, I cant find any.

Im just saying that the fact that people are willing to pay such outrageous prices is just beyond me.

Im up for any help you can offer.

[Scott Shepherd]

Im just saying that the fact that people are willing to pay such outrageous prices is just beyond me.

The fact that people can and do pay those prices and they can, and do make a living doing it shows there is some value to that thought process. If it were merely people "wasting money", then there would be no market for the more expensive machines.

We understand from your previous posts that you are young and just starting out and perhaps that's the real issue. Most 20 year old people don't have access to $20,000, $30,000, or $40,000 to invest in a business. So the problem isn't really with the cost of the lasers, it's with your ability to fund such a purchase, from what it appears like to me.

Just because you don't have the resources or the need for a $30,000 machine doesn't mean that others don't either.

[Mark Winlund]

mmmm. funny. but the thing is with cars you have the middle ground, there are a range of different cars at different prices. With the lasers, I either pay $2k for a cheap chinese one or $20k for the lowest of any other. Show me where the middle ground is. I would gladly pay smack bang in the middle maybe more, but hey, I cant find any.

Im just saying that the fact that people are willing to pay such outrageous prices is just beyond me.

Im up for any help you can offer.


Both Epilog and Universal have machines starting around 10k.... right in the "middle ground".

I am not aware of many people that didn't have to scrimp and save to get started in the engraving business. It takes years of "making do" in your business and personal life to become successful in most businesses. I started with a pantograph. It was eight years before I could get into computerized engraving.

Mark

[Scott Shepherd]

Mark, I think he's referring to a Aussie Tax on Imports which takes that $10,000 price and makes it $20,000.

[Zac Altman]

you know what, what you said is entirely correct. (no sarcasm)

[Zac Altman]

Mark, I think he's referring to a Aussie Tax on Imports which takes that $10,000 price and makes it $20,000.

Yeah, the cheapest Universal now costs about $22k. To me $10k is reasonable, but I guess if I want quality I will have to go for the 20k, its just unfortunate that there arent any systems around or near $10k

[Rodne Gold]

In this economic climate , you would be real naive or brave or silly or all 3 to buy a $20k laser and try start a business from scratch. Especially since your business model of martketing engraving on ipods and the like to college kids is not sustainable. You will need at least 1/2 the price of your laser as working capital and marketing expenses.
My advice - get a real job , make money and as soon as you have saved enough , get a laser and start a bus on the side , if it makes enough dosh , give up your day job.
Your determination is admirable , but your instence on NOT taking good advice from members here , who have been there and got the t-shirt is not.

[Mark Winlund]

In this economic climate , you would be real naive or brave or silly or all 3 to buy a $20k laser and try start a business from scratch. Especially since your business model of martketing engraving on ipods and the like to college kids is not sustainable. You will need at least 1/2 the price of your laser as working capital and marketing expenses.
My advice - get a real job , make money and as soon as you have saved enough , get a laser and start a bus on the side , if it makes enough dosh , give up your day job.
Your determination is admirable , but your instence on NOT taking good advice from members here , who have been there and got the t-shirt is not.

Rodne.... Were you born old? Most of the self made successful business men I have known have started out by not listening to other's advice. It takes a lot of courage to go against the "safe route". The parents want you to take the "safe route"... go to school, become an engineer, do what "we" say....Going broke a few times is part of his education. Perhaps this venture with the ipods won't work... in fact most certainly won't work. The lessons learned will be burned into his brain for the rest of his life..... and just perhaps allow him to try again and be successful next time. I myself went broke 5 times before I was 35.

Mark

[Zac Altman]

Well lets get basck onto the topic of the lasers themselves and answer the laser questions =)

Ive looked at getting an RF tube. they essentially double the cost. Making it around US$7k. Now I have emailed a few questions about the RF tubes to her, so I can only wait for those answers. RF tubes are more like the American laser tubes? If someone could explain the whole RF vs glass tube thing, that would be great.

4060N vs 4060SE?? is the extra 1k worth it??

Quality of the evgraving? like how does it compare to epilog or universal or trotec, etc

Resale value, what would the resale value of one of these compared to an Epilog or another brand. After a year. Info on any brand in a percentage would be great.

Like if you but an Epilog for $10k and then can sell it for $8k after 1 year, then it would be 80%. You say I will fail, I would like to think not, but it is always good to have some sort of exit plan.

Also, anyone know anything about LaserPro? I am speaking to a rep and this is what he said:
"Advantages are many, main advantage over Epilog is reliability, the most usefull advantage GCC has, that makes a differance on a daily basis is in the motion control, faster rips, cleaner images and smoother vector control."
Im looking at the C180 30 Watt

See I might be able to work out some sort of deal with either Trotec or LaserPro otherwise im going with the Rabbit.

[Andy Wingfield]

Hi Zac,

I have some questions you might want to get answers to regarding these less expensive laser, but since I am a Trotec rep I am a little uncomfortable doing this on the forum.
If you would like this information, please cal or email me.
Regards,

[Rodne Gold]

Mark , I'm intelligent enough to learn from others mistakes , I dont have to make them and harm myself for the lesson to sink in.

[Frank Corker]

Rodne.... Were you born old? Most of the self made successful business men I have known have started out by not listening to other's advice. It takes a lot of courage to go against the "safe route". The parents want you to take the "safe route"... go to school, become an engineer, do what "we" say....Going broke a few times is part of his education. Perhaps this venture with the ipods won't work... in fact most certainly won't work. The lessons learned will be burned into his brain for the rest of his life..... and just perhaps allow him to try again and be successful next time. I myself went broke 5 times before I was 35.

Mark

Sorry Mark, but is that really a recommendation?


.

[Greg Busch]

Mark, I think he's referring to a Aussie Tax on Imports which takes that $10,000 price and makes it $20,000.

Scott,
there is no import tax other than the standard GST of 10% which applies to every transaction in Australia.

The reference above, albeit exaggerated, would refer to a combination of the Local agents markup plus the exchange rate between the two currencies.

As there is no Laser manufacturing business in Australia there is no import duties payable.
A US$10K purchase would normally end up in the AUS$12-13K mark

[Mark Winlund]

Rodne, Frank:

My point is, give the kid some slack. Success is born in the fires of adversity, and failure is just another rung on the ladder.

Mark

[Jim Good]

I think the middle road may be a used laser. There are reputable folks that can get you into a used laser, with a limited warranty, and good support. You can also pay a lot less for these machines than a new one. I've had my laser less than 2 years and I still consider it a great machine.

Buy a used machine and make some money with it and then you can upgrade into one of those larger beds with all that power!!! After having a machine for awhile, you'll find other substrates you like working with, and will probably want to expand your niche.

Just a thought.

Jim

[Zac Altman]

To put it short, Im not going to buy a $20k laser, nor a $15k laser. So what does that leave, a Chinese laser or a heavily discounted of the other brands.

Just for comparison, the Zing is $8k in the US, I was told that they are selling it for $16k and that it was about $14k before the exchange rate went out of whack. So $8k plus lets say $500 shipping. Smack on the 10% GST and convert (the AU dollar just dropped 5c). That equals $14. I dunno how they do it, but it just seems that they are using the dollar as an excuse to put their prices up, they may need to do it, they may not.

But yeah, im looking to get one for $10k, of course I would prefer to go for a nice quality laser, but if I cant....well i will think about it then.

But right now I am going to try with the Versalaser and the Rayjet and we shall see.

As for those who say I will fail. Yes, I could fail...in fact it is more likely that I will fail than succeed. To be honest, I dont want to live my life avoiding risks, just makes it boring.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=dT4Fu-XDygw

[Albert Venne]

Hi, just a warning about King Rabbit laser,
I bought one over a year ago model #Rabbit HX 1290SE. It came with a Coherent 70watt RF laser tube. The unit worked great for a few months, some minor issues. Then in March of 2009 the laser quite firing right in the middle of engraving a key tag. To make a long story short you get virtually zero support from King Rabbit, I bought the laser machine from the Laser's Edge and they tried to support me as best they could but King Rabbit does not support them. It is now almost a year later and I have returned the RF laser tube twice to them. The first time it was returned it still did not fire, and then they accused me of changing the wiring to the laser tube, they used a photo I had sent them of the wiring when it first quite working as proof, not to smart because that was thier original wiring.
They told me to return the laser tube again so I did, cost me almost $700.00 to ship and insure. It was finally returned to me in a cardboard box with some bubble wrap for protection and not a single fragil label on it. Well the RF Tube was badly damaged during shipping. When I Complained about it they told me that was how they recieved it from me. Stupid statement on their part again, why? Part of the agreement to prove that they had fixed the laser was they had to include a DVD of the laser working at thier repair depot. The video shows the laser tube working and in perfect condition. When I told them that they backed off and agreed to send me a new power supply and a 70watt glass tube to get me up and running. I got the power supply in Dec.09 and the tube in Jan 22, 09. Problem is no one knows or will tell me how to wire the new power supply and safety switches into the CPU card. That is where I am today with this $20000.00 laser and approx $8000.00 worth of supplies.
Dean at Legacy Lasers (formerly The Lasers Edge) has been outstanding in his attempts to help me, but has not been getting any support from King Rabbit Laser. If anyone would like to know more details please let me know. If anyone has one of these laser machines that is working please let me know if you can help me out to get this unit up and running.
Thanks Albert Venne

[Ron Chapellaz]

Zac,
Buying a Chinese laser is cheaper, but at the end of the day tech support means a lot. In my opinion after just buying a laser myself I am glad that I didn't buy a chinese laser. I know I can pick up the phone and call support at any time and get a quick reply with no delay. There is definite value in that. I'm sure all of us at some time have called in for help, especially in the beginning. I am still learning things in here myself and appreciate and value the input from the members of this forum. Many of them have years of experience and are willing to share. Do look at a used laser like I did. I have a demo that I bought from a laser company here in Canada. I didn't buy the "BIG" machine, I started small. It's a tough business to get into. Let the machine work for you and if you become successful, upgrade to a larger machine. Make sure you have a solid business model. Figure out where your niche market is and build on that. And last but not least, use the knowledge of the members of the forum here. Many of them have years of experience with lasers. They are a valuable and "free" asset to you. Good luck with your decision. Choose wisely!

[Dan Hintz]

Before anyone else floods this message with help for Zac, realize this thread is over a year old and Zac has not posted for nearly a year. Just so you know...

[salim nirjhor]

---------------------------------------------------
Last few days I were busy with my 2 employee for our new toy HX-6090SE from rabbitlaser.
u once advise me to own this machine,Here my new machine & here i also want to learn and executed my all knowledge on it. but seem it much
harder thn i thought.
I beg help about following matter asap.

1. I'm not an expert on corelDraw but learning day by day, I used to worked on photoshop, Illustrator , U know i'm an interior designer so i used to with mostly autocad. Those experience i'm enjoying now for work with this machine.
2. I've 50% success on cutting ply, 1mm acrylic, thin wood(i didn't measure), paper etc.
but 0% on marble, glass and -5% for rubber sheet (for rubber stamp) where rubber going to melt.
3. Could u pls help me to give real parameter of above material please, please. I tried & puzzled
each time.
4. Bob (rabbit tech.) tried to help me alot but may b he cannt figure-out why my failure percent is much higher thn success.
5. About lasercut5.3 software : its a simple but not seem much more lower then creative, everything is limited here
and even i cannt fill any art object there (on because of my poor knowledge may be).pls let me know how can invert text on lasercut, my lasercut5.3 shows invert icon grey so not help to do.
6. Today I was tried all day to doing rubber stamp engrave. oops! Our sweat of failure just amazed me how our respected rabbit owner works by this? we tried both exposed or unexposed
side but almost same, I talked a lot with bob but result show same bored faces.

7. About Image, my god! we didn't see anything else some stupid dot on material but cutting fine out of
image. I dont know how everybody work with just few correction and command.
8. About lettering by text is almost invisible with supplied parameter setting but when i turned engrave
layer to cut, its leave some visible but much burned mark there,(not bad!) about text i'm confused also.
layer command will cut or engrave? or any method to success with lettering.


I know Rabbit owner knows answer of above all question and may be posted here already but i'm not tht lucky to discover right way.
And It will much appreciated if anybody help me to get those or answered to continue my off machine and no more burn my materials
indecent.


pls pls help me About 1. IMAGE 2. TEXT OR LETTERING. 3. RUBBER STAMP ENGRAVING . I can at least make worth to my F&F to be a member
of sawmill creek & cnczone and my non sleepy night. I enjoyed learn and forget how to work.


----------------------Nirjhor

With
--------------------------
A lots of dust making woodworking machines
Scroll-saw
Rabbit laser Hx6090-SE:eek:

dear freind pls send me your machines parameter setting, we have same machine , right?

[Bill Cunningham]

I'm not familiar with the software your laser uses, but I assume you would be able to import a .tif or .bmp file..
If so, create your stamp die in negative on photoshop, save it as '600dpi' line art, in .tif or .bmp (not a .jpg, they wont work for this) then engrave it as a bit image. It's crude, and will have no sloped edges, the black will engrave away, leaving the white text or image standing, but it will make a stamp. As for power/speed on your machine you will just have to experiment a bit..

[John Noell]

6. Today I was tried all day to doing rubber stamp engrave....
I think the type of rubber is rather important. I use the reddish rubber from JMP. It stinks but engraves very nicely. Both sides are the same, so there's no confusion about which side to engrave. :)