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Matt Ocel
10-12-2008, 1:59 PM
I want to go high tech:D on my jobsites. Since my office is the cab of my F-150 I figured it would be nice if I could send/recieve emails and (very important) easily download pictures to send and/or display for clients.

I would like something durable.

I can build houses, but not very good at electronics.

Please help.

David DeCristoforo
10-12-2008, 2:11 PM
Get a Mac. The MacBook Pro is awesome. Not cheap but very well made. I take mine everywhere. What's really cool is that Mac OSX includes the Apache web server so I can host my website locally as well as on the internet. So my customers can "surf" my web site from my laptop even if it's out of range of any wireless cloud. Very handy for looking at stuff on a job site where there is no internet available. Also, with the new Macs, you can also boot a windoze OS so you can have the best of both worlds.

Matt Ocel
10-12-2008, 4:25 PM
David -
My problem lies with the this "which one is the best for my application". I don't want one that is under powered or over powered. You can get a Mac book starting at $1K and up to over $3K. I understand the different screen sizes, more memory and all that adds cost, but how do I figure out which one is the best fit. Also I really need it to be compatible with my sony digital camera, and all my construction docs. are on excel, so it would be nice if everything would transfer over easy.

Jim Becker
10-12-2008, 4:40 PM
You'll have no issue with compatibility with your Excel needs or your camera with a Mac notebook. The thing you might have to consider is physical durability. Panasonic's "ToughBook" somewhat owns the field service market for that reason, although it's a Windows machine. Regardless of what you get, you'll want to check out your wireless carrier's mobile data offerings for local service aspects (speed is affected by network technology generation) and do that before making your decision. Some notebooks come pre-equipped for wireless carrier network access and you want to insure that you have the right type for your intended carrier. (Not an issue if you use a USB or PCMCIA adapter)

Andrew Derhammer
10-12-2008, 4:50 PM
There is windows office for macs. I'm not sure about cross compatibility though.

Mitchell Andrus
10-12-2008, 4:53 PM
You'll soon find that sending pics and files via broadband gets expensive. Also, going mobile means bringing everything in your office with you - or - doing your job without whatever you can't bring with you.

A good freind does landscaping, runs 3 crews. He tried designing 'on the spot' but gave up. Too many times he sat waiting for outside suppliers to give quotes fast enough to make going mobile worth while. Usually took a day no matter if he worked on his truck or at the office. Coordinating at a distance with his workers and the gal Friday back at the office was a hassle and no faster.

You may not realize the boost in productivity you're hoping for and proposals thrown together quickly while on the road may not have the 'polish' or accuracy that you'll need to beat the competition.

Sean Troy
10-12-2008, 5:52 PM
You'll soon find that sending pics and files via broadband gets expensive.

? I use Broadband and send pics and files all the time. It's just a monthly IP charge.

David DeCristoforo
10-12-2008, 5:59 PM
The MacBook is an awesome laptop for the price if you don't mind the 13" screen. The MacBook Pro is a much more versatile computer (more ports, more power, etc) and with a 15" or 17" wide screen. But much more dough too. Unless you really need the extra "oomph" the MacBook is hard to beat. As to compatibility of applications, don't worry about it. With the new Macs you can "dual boot" Mac OS or windoze. So if you need to run a few windoze apps, it's easy to do.

Rich Konopka
10-12-2008, 7:21 PM
Jim is correct on his recommendation on the Panasonic. I would also urge you to look in to getting a laptop with a "SSD" Solid State Disk. They are relatively new to laptops but they contain no moving parts and are not susceptible to failure if the laptop is dropped. They are a bit pricey but well worth it for someone in your line of business.

David DeCristoforo
10-12-2008, 7:42 PM
SSD or "flash drives" are still way expensive once you get over a few gigs in size. I would wait on that one....

Tom Henry
10-12-2008, 7:49 PM
I just got a Mac PowerBook Pro 2.6 Duo 4 gigs of ram 17" HD and got the parallel desktops so I can run XP at the same time...It is blazing fast! WOW :eek:

Randy Cohen
10-12-2008, 7:57 PM
my son had a panasonic tough book when he worked for a large electric utility(don't ask which utility or why its past tense) and he said it sucks.

Mark Grotenhuis
10-12-2008, 8:51 PM
I've been using my macbook pro out of my f150 for two years now. No complaints, I love it. I run both windows and mac osx on it.

Tom Godley
10-13-2008, 12:05 PM
I switched over to Apple just after all the Y2K stuff -- remember that !!

Anyway - other than the original iMac crt unit that I purchased as a "test bed" for my eventual transformation -- everything else is still being used.

I have never had any update issues and no compatibility problems between old and new -- Intel or IBM power pc. The stuff just works.

I personally use a 15" titanium powerbook every day that has to be at least five years old -- it is still nicer that most units today.

We also have a couple of newer Macbooks - they are really nice for the money. I no longer get the regular tower units for my office - we get the iMac -- The 24" units are fantastic

I have not looked over the current laptops in a couple of months so I do not know what the current Macbook comes with - often the cheapest unit is configured to be a value player. Other than the possibility of that unit not meeting your requirements -- all the others will be just fine.

Matt Ocel
10-14-2008, 7:51 PM
Thanks guys!

I'm going to the Apple store at Mall of America this weekend and take a couple Mac's for a test drive.

John Shuk
10-14-2008, 8:59 PM
Mac has a sub $1k notebook coming out.
There can be discounts had as well. If you have access to a teacher or college student you can save a few bucks that way with the education discount.

Greg Cuetara
10-15-2008, 12:55 PM
Once you decide which model is right for you take a look at macmall.com. I have always found them to have pricing for a few hundred less than anyone else. They usually even beat the educator pricing.

BTW you will not have any problems with cross compatibility of any files and if you are dead set on still using windoze you can boot directly into that rather into the mac operating system. Actually windoze runs faster on a mac than on a PC. All the mac models start out with the same features as the mid to high end models of all the PC brands which is why the mac models are a little more expensive, much more comes right with the computer rather than having to add it on. If you look at a good dell laptop it will run you a few k's.

Scott Haddix
10-15-2008, 10:23 PM
Okay, now for the some really important advice to go with your new laptop. Do not leave it in your vehicle unattended. I know of at least 5 people who have had their vehicle windows broken out and their laptops stolen, including a coworker who had his stolen this last Tuesday. It happens a lot, and is on the increase. If you have no choice but to leave it in your vehicle, make sure it is not in plain sight.

I'd hate to see you buy the perfect laptop just to have to replace it and your window.

Al Willits
10-16-2008, 8:33 AM
Guy next to me at work has went though about 6 or 7 of them and has a Dell XPS now, 15" screen, very fast and comes with only basics so you can add what ever programs you want.

Bit heavy, but he says its one of the better ones he's played with.

Al

Don Bullock
10-16-2008, 9:59 AM
Apple just updated their notebooks and the new generation looks great.

While I don't have a notebook yet, I do have an iMac and love it. I wonder why I even moved from Macintosh to PC several years ago, but I'm very happy that I switched back. The Mac just doesn't seem to have all the problems that I had with my PCs. Updates are swifter and easier as well. For me working with pictures and graphics as well as saving them to a CD is easier on the iMac than on my last PC.

I also like the fact that there are few, if any, problems with viruses, Trojan horses, worms and the like with Macintosh. On my PCs, even with updated virus protection, I had my hard drive at work wiped out twice by these Internet nemeses.

Chris Schumann
10-16-2008, 11:23 AM
Now for a contrary opinion: I have been using and buying ThinkPads since 1992 for these reasons. Note that I am a software developer by trade, so these may not apply to you:

- They are built very well and have excellent reliability.
- Best keyboards in the industry.
- TrackPoint! I rather detest track pads and keep mine disabled.
- Parts are widely available, and priced reasonably.
- Repair manuals are online.
- IBM and now Lenovo support the machines for much longer than other brands. (I've seen new BIOS updates for machines that are ten years old.)
- There's a large community of users (http://forum.thinkpads.com/).
- Timeless design.

I've had more than a dozen of them, but only three brand new. Any member of my family who wants laptop support from me has to get a ThinkPad.

I live in Saint Paul and would be happy to show you my T60: 2.0GHz Core Duo, 1GB RAM, 320GB disk, 14.1" 1400x1050 display.

Curt Harms
10-16-2008, 1:48 PM
...
- They are built very well and have excellent reliability.
- Best keyboards in the industry.
- TrackPoint! I rather detest track pads and keep mine disabled.
- Parts are widely available, and priced reasonably.
- Repair manuals are online.
- IBM and now Lenovo support the machines for much longer than other brands. (I've seen new BIOS updates for machines that are ten years old.)
- There's a large community of users (http://forum.thinkpads.com/).
- Timeless design.


I love the pointing devices on the Thinkpad. There is a similar device on other manufacturers i.e. Dell & HP offer the "eraserhead" on higher end models but Thinkpads offer it on all models. Having to use a mouse seems silly for a notebook and the I don't find the touchpads usable for other than rudimentary use. You can get limited DOS support for new Thinkpads if you need it. You do have to watch models; I bought an R61i and returned it because it didn't have W2K hardware support. I bought another R61 model that did offer full W2K support. The speakers on mine are pretty anemic, headphones or external speakers recommended for decent audio. Lenovo hasn't screwed them up yet as far as I know.

HTH

Curt

Jim Becker
10-16-2008, 3:21 PM
Like Curt, I'm a "pointing stick" guy, too. The touch pad is disabled on my Dell notebook and I use the pointing stick exclusively. Touch pads, at least as they have been, have not been my cup of tea, especially since I'm a "right mouse button" user. Perhaps if things move forward...the iPhone I discuss in another thread is an outstanding example of how great functionality can come to "touch".

Edward Novaluski
10-17-2008, 2:11 PM
Like Curt, I'm a "pointing stick" guy, too. The touch pad is disabled on my Dell notebook and I use the pointing stick exclusively. Touch pads, at least as they have been, have not been my cup of tea, especially since I'm a "right mouse button" user. Perhaps if things move forward...the iPhone I discuss in another thread is an outstanding example of how great functionality can come to "touch".
The touch pad on the newer Macbook Pro's has some similar functionality to the iPhone, examples of which are two finger swipes up and down to scroll through a web page and three finger swipes left and right for going back and going forward on web pages. The newest Macbook and Macbook Pro's have glass track pads that have the same functions as the previous gen track pads but with added four finger swipes for switching through applications. Right clicking is also as easy as putting two fingers on the track pad and clicking the button. It's very intuitive like the iPhone interface.

Neal Clayton
10-18-2008, 9:43 PM
the problem with most laptops is they are of course delicate. there are a few that are designed for jobsite use. HP has a line although i don't know the name off the top of my head. my stepfather is a pipeline inspector and they use the HPs. there are also the Dell 'D' line and the Panasonic toughbooks.

and the above point about IBM i agree with. out of your run of the mill laptops, IBMs are more rugged than most, but of course not as much as one built and marketed as a rugged laptop.

i don't have anything against apple but after working on more computers than i can count, i can say with certainty that apple consumer grade equipment is the definition of cheap construction in electronics terms, and i would never use one in a jobsite environment.

the guts of mac minis and macbooks are pitifully delicate in comparison to a commercial grade laptop such as the above mentioned IBMs and HPs. the 'pro' line of desktops is better, i admit, and i suppose the same might apply to the laptop 'pro' line.

Jim Becker
10-19-2008, 9:35 AM
Note that IBM no longer makes PCs and Notebooks....they sold that part of the business to Lenovo a few years ago. The designs for many remain the same, however, particularly for the ThinkPad line.

Tim Morton
10-19-2008, 11:45 AM
get a macbook and put it in a case....and get applecare:)

David DeCristoforo
10-19-2008, 1:04 PM
FWIW, Apple just released new versions of the Mac Book and Mac Book Pro. These are probably going to be the best Apple laptops ever. Check em out at apple.com

Art Mulder
10-19-2008, 2:25 PM
...and get applecare:)

This.

At my previous place of employment, lots of the lab used macs. We always advised getting applecare on laptops, since they take a beating. In contrast, we never advised getting it on desktops, as they don't. Folks there regularly made use of it to fix up their laptops. I knew at least two people who got brand new laptops after a year or two thanks to applecare.

...art

ps: I've got a 5 year old 12" powerbook G4 and it still works fine. (Admittedly, I use it lightly). IMHO, apple systems have a longer lifetime before OS and software upgrades force an upgrade.

Eric Franklin
10-19-2008, 2:32 PM
I would also urge you to look in to getting a laptop with a "SSD" Solid State Disk. They are relatively new to laptops but they contain no moving parts and are not susceptible to failure if the laptop is dropped. They are a bit pricey but well worth it for someone in your line of business.

Rich, all Apple laptops have sudden motion sensor's which park the hard drives head instantly incase of a drop.

In response to the Thinkpads. In my experience, Lenovo hasn't kept the same quality level that IBM had.

Neal Clayton
10-19-2008, 4:56 PM
they haven't on all models, that's for sure.

the ideapads are noticably more delicate, and some of the thinkpads even. that said the T and X models are still pretty much the same, just the newer lines are worse.

J.R. Rutter
10-19-2008, 9:34 PM
I'm still getting good use out of the Titanium PowerBook that I bought when I started my business. The new Mac notebooks look so nice (and the PowerBook is a screamer) that I am tempted to upgrade. But for a laptop to be useful 6 years after purchase is saying something. There are a lot of almost new Mac notebooks showing up locally on craigslist due to the sexy new models...

Frank Hagan
10-20-2008, 7:07 PM
I want to go high tech:D on my jobsites. Since my office is the cab of my F-150 I figured it would be nice if I could send/recieve emails and (very important) easily download pictures to send and/or display for clients.

I would like something durable.

I can build houses, but not very good at electronics.

Please help.

Lots of advice here, but I'll add a cautionary note, based on having 17 service technicians in the field with new laptops. If you are like them, you will never use it in your truck.

Here's the reason: they are a PITA to take out, boot up, and try to get a wireless connection in the field. If you have AT&T's plan, you'll be in an area that only Sprint serves. If you have Sprint, then only Verizon will have it available. Unless you know what coverage your area has, it's a giant crapshoot. Even then, just like your cell phone, your wireless connection in the field will be spotty. And find out about the data charges; plans run from $20 to $90 extra per month for data services.

If you are good technically, you can use your customer's wireless (different from the wifi the cell carriers use), but you'll have to know how to log in, etc. If they have it password protected and they can't remember the password, you're out of luck.

Want to tap into those public "hot spots" that places like McDonald's have? That's fine, but it is illegal to tap into them unless you are a customer. Because of the theft of data from businesses, some locations are on the lookout for hackers in parking lots sniffing packets from the cash register wireless systems. The cop will confiscate your laptop until they determine what you are doing, unless you are a customer and the store knows it.

Finally, computers are tools, and lousy ones for customer interaction. Popping open your laptop and showing your customers pictures on the screen is a cold, impersonal way to show them. You retain control, and they usually won't complain to you that they really can't see the screen that well. If you have pictures of your work, print them out and hand them a portfolio book or individual pictures. They can handle them, move them closer to their face, and not feel like they are being led down the chute to the kill.

Email is handy; get a Blackberry or other email equipped phone. Always on, and the customers will appreciate your quick response.

Matt Ocel
10-20-2008, 7:34 PM
Lots of advice here, but I'll add a cautionary note, based on having 17 service technicians in the field with new laptops. If you are like them, you will never use it in your truck.

Here's the reason: they are a PITA to take out, boot up, and try to get a wireless connection in the field. If you have AT&T's plan, you'll be in an area that only Sprint serves. If you have Sprint, then only Verizon will have it available. Unless you know what coverage your area has, it's a giant crapshoot. Even then, just like your cell phone, your wireless connection in the field will be spotty. And find out about the data charges; plans run from $20 to $90 extra per month for data services.

If you are good technically, you can use your customer's wireless (different from the wifi the cell carriers use), but you'll have to know how to log in, etc. If they have it password protected and they can't remember the password, you're out of luck.

Want to tap into those public "hot spots" that places like McDonald's have? That's fine, but it is illegal to tap into them unless you are a customer. Because of the theft of data from businesses, some locations are on the lookout for hackers in parking lots sniffing packets from the cash register wireless systems. The cop will confiscate your laptop until they determine what you are doing, unless you are a customer and the store knows it.

Finally, computers are tools, and lousy ones for customer interaction. Popping open your laptop and showing your customers pictures on the screen is a cold, impersonal way to show them. You retain control, and they usually won't complain to you that they really can't see the screen that well. If you have pictures of your work, print them out and hand them a portfolio book or individual pictures. They can handle them, move them closer to their face, and not feel like they are being led down the chute to the kill.

Email is handy; get a Blackberry or other email equipped phone. Always on, and the customers will appreciate your quick response.


Frank-

Your insight is very much appreciated!

Michael Arruda
10-21-2008, 2:08 AM
PCs are the way to go. Mac has been behind the curve for a long time- the G3 was the last unit that was ahead of PC for anything at the time, and that was graphics and visual design, as ATI had released their next generation GPU to Mac before PC. NVidia released the higher end GForce and Quadro cards that surpassed the Mac offerings, and the PC has left Mac in the dust since then on everything.

Errors and issues are far easier to track down on a PC, and if you know what you're doing, you DON'T have more errors with a PC, contrary to Mac marketing.

As far as the mac going further between upgrades- this is due to the fact that the PC world is always advancing, while the Mac platform stagnates until the next line iteration. Keep in mind that with the PC, though technology advances at such a steady pace, that does not mean you HAVE to upgrade for the latest and greatest. Also, when the time comes to upgrade, with a PC, you can upgrade components, yes, even in a laptop, while with a mac it's more a matter of upgrading the entire system.

Much like Bose, Mac markets their platform by the name. The Mac was always a higher end alternative to the PC, with a certain measure of exclusivity. Hence why an Ipod can cost you $400 while the same technology, built better with a higher capacity can be had for half the price in an Archos media player or the like. Also like Bose, Mac has a tendancy, as has been pointed out, to use second rate electronic components, especially when the price that you pay for them is taken into consideration.

It all boils down to what you are comfortable with- if you learned PC first, and learned it properly, you'll like PCs. Same for Macs. I'm not speaking from a user standpoint, but rather someone who works on them professionally. PC frustrations with my customers come from a lack of understanding and knowledge. Now, I will conceede, that the Mac has made great strides in bringing compatibility with the PC platform easier and better. Also, the Mac is a better interface if you're a grandma or inexperienced user who doesn't want to learn much, but have pretty buttons to press and a nice little light that looks like the computer is personified as it "breathes" in hibernation. I always thought that was cute.

If you want a machine with reliability, ease of repair when necessary for the least down time, and direct and assured compatibility with any software you would want to use, go with a PC, unless your background is Mac and you don't want to learn a different interface.

Also, don't be fooled by the build quality of the Mac laptop- the pretty cases don't have significant interior bracing or padding, so for the most part, they're actually WORSE than a plastic case, as the plastic will give slightly in the event of a light impact whereas the metal of the Mac casing has a tendency to dent and remain dented. Also, the plastic case can be replaced one piece at a time, rather than the entire shell with the Mac. Now, if Mac actually cared about substance over visual appeal, they'd go for a rubberized plastic housing with interior titanium or aluminum extrusion bracing and impact absorption material around the components in the body cavity, as some higher end PC laptops have done.

Oh, and contrary to popular belief, Macs DO get viruses, and DO get infected with Adware, Spyware and Malware, which in the current systems security situation on the internet, is a much greater threat than viruses.

-Michael

Tim Morton
10-21-2008, 6:35 AM
PCs are the way to go. Mac has been behind the curve for a long time- the G3 was the last unit that was ahead of PC for anything at the time, and that was graphics and visual design, as ATI had released their next generation GPU to Mac before PC. NVidia released the higher end GForce and Quadro cards that surpassed the Mac offerings, and the PC has left Mac in the dust since then on everything.

Errors and issues are far easier to track down on a PC, and if you know what you're doing, you DON'T have more errors with a PC, contrary to Mac marketing.

As far as the mac going further between upgrades- this is due to the fact that the PC world is always advancing, while the Mac platform stagnates until the next line iteration. Keep in mind that with the PC, though technology advances at such a steady pace, that does not mean you HAVE to upgrade for the latest and greatest. Also, when the time comes to upgrade, with a PC, you can upgrade components, yes, even in a laptop, while with a mac it's more a matter of upgrading the entire system.

Much like Bose, Mac markets their platform by the name. The Mac was always a higher end alternative to the PC, with a certain measure of exclusivity. Hence why an Ipod can cost you $400 while the same technology, built better with a higher capacity can be had for half the price in an Archos media player or the like. Also like Bose, Mac has a tendancy, as has been pointed out, to use second rate electronic components, especially when the price that you pay for them is taken into consideration.

It all boils down to what you are comfortable with- if you learned PC first, and learned it properly, you'll like PCs. Same for Macs. I'm not speaking from a user standpoint, but rather someone who works on them professionally. PC frustrations with my customers come from a lack of understanding and knowledge. Now, I will conceede, that the Mac has made great strides in bringing compatibility with the PC platform easier and better. Also, the Mac is a better interface if you're a grandma or inexperienced user who doesn't want to learn much, but have pretty buttons to press and a nice little light that looks like the computer is personified as it "breathes" in hibernation. I always thought that was cute.

If you want a machine with reliability, ease of repair when necessary for the least down time, and direct and assured compatibility with any software you would want to use, go with a PC, unless your background is Mac and you don't want to learn a different interface.

Also, don't be fooled by the build quality of the Mac laptop- the pretty cases don't have significant interior bracing or padding, so for the most part, they're actually WORSE than a plastic case, as the plastic will give slightly in the event of a light impact whereas the metal of the Mac casing has a tendency to dent and remain dented. Also, the plastic case can be replaced one piece at a time, rather than the entire shell with the Mac. Now, if Mac actually cared about substance over visual appeal, they'd go for a rubberized plastic housing with interior titanium or aluminum extrusion bracing and impact absorption material around the components in the body cavity, as some higher end PC laptops have done.

Oh, and contrary to popular belief, Macs DO get viruses, and DO get infected with Adware, Spyware and Malware, which in the current systems security situation on the internet, is a much greater threat than viruses.

-Michaelthanks for the morning chuckle;);)

Michael Arruda
10-21-2008, 2:44 PM
Okay, look, I don't want to spark a war here, just stating the facts. The simple truth is, as I said, it all boils down to what you're comfortable with. The Mac isn't a bad platform anymore than the PC is, my point is that the PC is a better bang for the buck all around. Not only that, but there's some fallacies floating around due to Mac's wonderful advertising...

Whichever you get, get to know it well, so you can take full advantage of the wonderful tool it is.

Have fun!
-Michael

Art Mulder
10-21-2008, 7:24 PM
Okay, look, I don't want to spark a war here, just stating the facts. The simple truth is, as I said, it all boils down to what you're comfortable with. The Mac isn't a bad platform anymore than the PC is,

Well Michael, your first post seems contradict what you just stated:


... Mac has been behind the curve for a long time- the G3 was the last unit that was ahead of PC for anything at the time, ... the PC has left Mac in the dust since then on everything.

You're right, though, that this could quickly lead to a flame fest. And I don't want to go down that road either.

I do want to present a difference of opinion on this point at least...



Oh, and contrary to popular belief, Macs DO get viruses, and DO get infected with Adware, Spyware and Malware, which in the current systems security situation on the internet, is a much greater threat than viruses.

Yes, macs can get viruses. But the difference in scale is staggering.

In my previous job, my IT group supported about 100 or so users, about half of those were Macs. This was an education environment, with a lot of internet usage. All of the Mac and PC users were free to download and install software off the net if they chose to do so. In 9 years, I can count on one hand the number of times that my IT group had to deal with adware or viruses on a Mac. Most of our Macs didn't even have anti-virus software on them. I cannot say the same for the PC population. We had infected systems to deal with every month.

Michael Arruda
10-21-2008, 8:56 PM
Art-

I don't know how long ago you were doing IT for PC and Mac, but if it was more than a year or two, I agree with you- due to the popularity of the PC over the Mac, as well as the fact that source was more open on the PC platform, hackers decided to code viruses that targeted PC, and didn't do all too much with Mac. Recently though, Mac's susceptibility to malicious code has increased considerably. PC coders have an edge up on the Mac as far as experience in coding malicious software, so it IS still much more of an issue on the PC. I just said what I did to let it be known that Mac marketing is deceptive in that regard- people who don't know shouldn't buy a Mac on the grounds of no virus issues.

The big issue for both platforms right now is adware, malware, and spyware. These are beginning to affect both platforms on an equal level, as they exploit security deficiencies in the network communication interface itself- why it took so long to do so, I don't know; the "internet" protocols were written twenty-five or so years ago and were never designed to carry as much as they do now. Because both platforms must "speak" in this language to work with each other, the deficiencies and issues are being exploited on both.

What this means for the mac user is somewhat frightening. The PC has been dealing with this for a long time, and as such, is doing a pretty good job of combating it. Macintosh on the other hand, won't relinquish their "virus free" mentality, so I don't see as much proactive anti-malware work going on in the Mac camp. I could be wrong- I'm sure there's some die hard apple heads on here that know more of the current advancements than I do. I'm just worried that people who are basic point and click users will be caught with their pants down once malware on the Mac proceeds further into the mainstream because they've been told they never have to worry about "viruses."

You probably have more experience on the Mac side than I do, so if you have any further insight into this, I'd appreciate it.

-Michael

PS- Sorry to all if my initial offering was a bit too acidic to the Mac. I don't think it's as good a platform as the PC, all around, but that doesn't mean it's bad, either. Whatever you're happy and comfortable with is what you should use, so you can take full advantage of the interface. A large number of people hate the PC, both with more and less expereince than I have- go with whatever you like, just be aware of the pros and cons of each before you decide.

John Shuk
10-21-2008, 9:03 PM
god I love you Tim!

Tim Morton
10-22-2008, 6:20 AM
Art-

I could be wrong-

Truer words were never spoken...:) Thanks again;);)

Peter Quadarella
10-22-2008, 9:19 AM
Macintosh has not seen its share of viruses for one reason - it has historically had little marketshare. There is nothing inherently special about a Mac that makes it safe from viruses. There has simply not been that many hackers out there targetting Macs.

Now that Mac marketshare has been on the upswing, this will begin to change.

In my opinion, Apple has done a good job making their computers easy to use. They are a little more agile in that they do not have to worry about compatibility to a larger standard outside of their control. That said, because they are proprietary and have no competition with their platform, they can charge more. You can get a technology comparable PC for a good bit less than a Mac.

In general, I don't like the proprietary direction of the Mac. Basically we have come full circle - 20 years ago we would have been talking about IBM. I would love for Mac to make their operating system more open so that there could be some competition in the hardware space.

I also dabble with computer games, and Macs cannot compete in that space. Third party video cards and other addons make a PC far more powerful than anything Apple can make alone. Not to mention the compatibility issues in that industry.

Also, I'm not interested in being "cool", so their advertising hasn't worked on me yet ;).

Dave Bender
10-22-2008, 9:43 AM
Truer words were never spoken...:) Thanks again;);)

Thanks for being a Mac bigot Tim. Your input is so enlightening.

Art Mulder
10-22-2008, 11:12 AM
There is nothing inherently special about a Mac that makes it safe from viruses. There has simply not been that many hackers out there targetting Macs.

It is true, that Macs do not have the market share, and as such have not historically been targeted by hackers.

It is also true, that there is something inherently special about the Mac OS design to make it safer (note, "safer", not absolutely "safe") from viruses or hacking attempts. Clearly we don't agree on that point.


Art-

I don't know how long ago you were doing IT for PC and Mac,
...
The big issue for both platforms right now is adware, malware, and spyware.

Michael,

My experience covered 9 years.

But your second comment quoted above still puzzles me. Where are you getting this information from? My current job doesn't involve Macs anymore, I just have my two at home that I directly see every day. I have no malware/spyware issues there at all, and I have not heard about any such problems plagueing mac users.

Tim Morton
10-22-2008, 6:38 PM
Thanks for being a Mac bigot Tim. Your input is so enlightening.


Macs are way better:cool:

Happy???:p:p

Seriously its a stupid argument that no-one is ever going to win...I like macs, i recommend them to people looking for hassle free computers, if they choose to buy a PC, then thats fine. I can only relate my personal experiences and those around me. I have never heard anyone come to me asking for help with a mac, but not a day goes by where i don't hear about a pc problem, either from downloading music or something as simple as getting the internet to work on their computer.

Bottom line is that macs are a better computer for what they try and do, and no-one is going to argue that point and win. The other can possibly be said that PC's are a better computer for what they try to do...so can we leave it at that?

Michael Arruda
10-22-2008, 7:28 PM
Art-
my info is second hand for the most part, as far as Macs go, from Google internal IT. The landscape of the internet, as well as it's pitfalls, are changing.

Tim-
Preference. It's what it boils down to. A Mac man can come to me with ease of use and satisfied customers and I do the same; I can come to him with cold numbers from Sysoft Sandra and other benchmarking software to prove PC hardware superiority, and it can be denied as well. Either way, buy what you like. Numbers don't lie, but, ya know, just sayin', just sayin'... :p

Seriously though, get what you like and enjoy it.

-Michael

Art Mulder
10-22-2008, 9:42 PM
Seriously though, get what you like and enjoy it.

There, we agree.

back to woodworking, I think.

...art

ps: Google Internal IT? I thought they ran on Linux! ;)

Michael Arruda
10-22-2008, 10:06 PM
Nope- not everyone on Linux. Headin' in that direction, though. :D

-Michael