Phenolic plywood

[Stig Lundberg]

Hello out there, I’m new on the block so to speak.

I'd like to know if anyone has some experience with phenolic plywood.
I am thinking of using it when starting to remodel my shop in a week or so.
What brand do you recommend if you have worked with it?

Stig.

[Jason White]

Isn't phenolic a type of plastic?




Hello out there, I’m new on the block so to speak.

I'd like to know if anyone has some experience with phenolic plywood.
I am thinking of using it when starting to remodel my shop in a week or so.
What brand do you recommend if you have worked with it?

Stig.

[Eric DeSilva]

I've used small amounts of phenolic ply for shop jigs and the like--my outfeed table is phenolic ply. It is flat, smooth, and nice and slippery, but frankly, the stuff is too expensive to do much with. The only place I found it is Woodcraft, where my recollection is that a 1/4 sheet of 1/2" costs you nearly $50. When I bought it, it was just to play with it a bit.

[Don Eddard]

Isn't phenolic a type of plastic?
Phenolic plywood has a thick layer of phenolic laminated to one or both surfaces of the sheet. It's great stuff, but as Eric mentioned it's pricey.

[Eric DeSilva]

Odd... Just noticed this in another thread, where Brett Gallmeyer (sp? hope I got that right) recommended using phenolic ply instead of melamine coated ply. He said, among other things "I buy it at a local contractor supply company. its used in the concrete industry for making forms."

[Rob Blaustein]

I agree with Eric. I have some of the green stuff from Woodcraft and it is nice to have some around. I used to replace the UHMW plastic face of my Shopfox fence on a cabinet saw and it is smoother and flatter. Another source is Woodpecker; theirs is red. They have it on sale a few times a year and I think on sale it is similar in price to the Woodcraft.

[Greg Cole]

Woodpeck.com, Woodcraft and White Cap Construction Supply all usually have it. The stuff from Woodpeck is usually offered once or twice a year. The other 2 have it year 'round.
My outfeed extension on the TS is phenolic ply as is the top of an assembly table. Its great for shedding glue, dye etc etc and as mentioned previously the surface is nice n slick. 'Tis good for jiggery too.
Lastly you can get it up to 1" thick from Woodpeck on Russian BB ply and the blody stuff has like 23 layers. Super stong stuff.

Greg

[Stig Lundberg]

Hi all and thanks for the answers.

Yes, it is expensive as I found out from a friend last night.
There is a company down in San Diego that have it in stock. I have decided to buy a sheet of it and make some jigs, fences and other stuff.
It will be good for my morale. I sorely need something to perk me up. Things haven’t been very nice lately. The economy mess and so on.

Thanks again
Stig.

[brett gallmeyer]

Hey,
Ya I buy it at a contractor supply company. Fine woodworking did a rightup about it http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Materials/MaterialsPDF.aspx?id=30588

I forget what issue it was in but it listed a couple of sources including woodcraft. I found it at a company called Whitecap. They had a store in my town. Here is a link to there website and to info about the ply.
http://www.whitecapdirect.com/store/plywood.jsp

I believe it costs me $50-60 a sheet. Not bad for 11 ply with a resin coating on both sides.

brett g.

[Bruce Page]

I have used the 3/4" green stuff from Woodcraft for a replacement table on my little Rikon bandsaw. It seems to be pretty durable.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have seen plenty of phenolic sheet material but never heard of Phenolic Plywood.

[Mike Keers]

...what you're really referring to is 'sign board' or MDO, the actual industry name (Medium Density Overlay). You'll find it's more commonly known as MDO and readily available (and cheaper) or can be ordered at most lumberyards than buying it at a specialty house like Woodcraft. I've used it for thirty years and never heard it referred to as 'phenolic plywood' before, altho that's how I explain what it is to the uninitiated.

It's quite common stuff in the sign industry (hence the term 'sign board') and even boatbuilding. I have no problem ordering it thru my local lumber yard, altho the big box places gave me blank stares, tho the contractors' desk would probably know what it is and where to order it.

I've only bought 1/2" in the recent past (for signs in fact), and I don't recall it being that much more expensive (if at all) than a good grade of ply, if such can be said to exist outside of imported boat building plywoods.

[glenn bradley]

My DP table is phenolic coated BB ply and has held up very well. White Cap (http://www.whitecapdirect.com/store/plywood.jsp)has it for concrete.

[Alan Schaffter]

The term "phenolic" refers to the fact that the surface is coated with a phenolic resin, typically epoxy. Actually melamine is a type of phenolic, too.

Don't confuse "phenolic ply" with true solid phenolic sheet like Dupont's Micarta which is made with many layers of linen or paper that have been saturated with resin then cured under pressure and heat. Most of the "phenolic ply" I have seen (Woodcraft and WoodPeckers) has at most one layer of resin paper or is just the ply surface coated with resin with little to no penetration into the outer plies.

If you get "phenolic ply" retail from Woodcraft, WoodPeckers, etc. you will pay premium (outrageous?) prices for small pieces of it. This is probably because it looks like it is made with a Baltic Birch ply. Though I have never seen this "phenolic ply", I have heard better prices are available from suppliers of concrete form material. You may not be able to buy partial sheets, and may, in fact, need to buy multiple sheets.

For the money and for better durability I use laminate (like Formica) over ply for jigs, etc. I either buy partial (broken) sheets from the big box stores at big discount or get cutoffs from my local counter fabricator. The last time visited the counter shop I got what I needed for free because I took scraps that had already been coated with adhesive that he could no longer use. I easily removed the adhesive with acetone and re-used the laminate. I use water-based laminate adhesive.

[Dar Lounsbury]

Actually, I think what you are looking for is HDO plywood. It is somewhat like MDO but better, stronger and waterproof.

HDO Plywood is manufactured with a thermosetting resin-impregnated fiber surface bonded to the outer plys under heat and pressure.

HDO Plywood provides a smooth, uniform surface which is resistant to abrasion, moisture penetration and deterioration from many common chemicals and solvents.

HDO Plywood is bonded with 100% waterproof glue and has inner ply construction of C or C plugged grade veneer. Face veneers are B grade or better.

[Mike Sandman]

Phenolic, melamine and epoxy are all varieties of thermosetting plastic. They all harden with heat (unlike polystyrene and polypropylene which soften with heat. (I spend 25 years at a company that impregated industrial fabrics with phenolic and we used millions of pounds of phenolic...)

Most plywood is made by laminating sheet of wood together using resorcinol resin, a cousin of phenolic. Phenolic plywood is plywood, not MDF, and it's been faced with a thin layer of phenolic-impregnated birch. not paper It's very smooth and tough and it's useful for making jigs. Phenolic plywood has phenolic just on the surface plies. The interior plies are regular plywood - often birch. Woodcraft carries it.

As noted by others, phenolic plywood is also use in the construction industry to make tough long-lasting forms for concrete, which is why Whiteside carries it. Whiteside is a commercial supply house, not a retail outlet.

If you buy "solid phenolic" of the sort used to mount routers under a table, you're probably getting a laminated phenolic-impregnated cloth, which is similarly very tough and smooth, but usually not as thick as phenolic plywood. In the 1980s Caterpillar tractors used a thick, wide ring of phenolic-impregnated cotton as an axle bearing. (Maybe they still do.)

Woodcraft carries 3/4 and 1/2 plywood and it is expensive -- see http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3958&mode=details#tabs. But is makes strong, smooth long-lasting jigs. If you need a low-friction surface that resists abrasion, phenolic is a god choice. Example: table saw outfeed tables; fences.

[Frederick Harvie]

Does any one know of a source of phenolic plywood with a white surface.

[Jim Butterfield]

I got a sheet of phenolic-coated ply in the spring. Kencraft will cut up a sheet and UPS it to you for around $125. I don't have a local supplier in the area, so it was my only option. I'm using it for utility table tops. It takes a roundover on the edges nice and is quite durable. Kencraft has only brown.
http://www.kencraftcompany.com/

[Charles Grosjean]

I'd like to know if anyone has some experience with phenolic plywood.

What brand do you recommend if you have worked with it?

Stig.

The [good] red stuff is FinnForm, used for concrete forming. Since you're in So. CA, you can buy it from one or two suppliers for considerably less than you would pay for it from specialty wood stores. It's been a long time since I've priced it, but it was less than $80/sheet for 3/4".

[Brian Kent]

Welcome to the creek. Your question gave me some information I didn't know. I use the Woodcraft green phenolic ply on my router table. I like everything about it but the cost.

Brian