Trestle Table Design: Please critique

[Danny Thompson]

The Mrs. wants a new rugged dining table. Looking for the top to be 2-3" thick, 84". x 36". Probably African Mahogany, maybe Walnut. Distressed finish.

Here is my shot at the design.

What do you think? Suggestions?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=98428&d=1223698735

[Jamie Buxton]

I understand the design, except for one detail. There's something on the sides of the trestle, almost like a giant peg going through the trestle and stretcher. What's that?


A table that size is going to weigh two or three hundred pounds. You might think now about how you're going to move it. I'd design it so that the top disassembles from the base fairly easily. At least then you can transport the top separately from the base.

[Mike Cutler]

Danny

It's a nice design, nice lines,and I like the intended size, but,,,,, I would consider the following elements.

The through tenon, that I believe Jamie is refering to, "should" be on the stretcher itself,and not lock the legs to the stretcher.

I, personally would set those trestle legs at about a 4 to 6 degree angle out from the top. The current design is a reflex parallelogram, and may be susceptable to "racking back and forth" along it's length. Changing the angle of the legs will inhibit this.

Jamie is also correct about the weight issue. I have a two padauk slabs 84x30x2, and they are extremely heavy.( they are also intended for trestle table tops) Build it so that it won't have to be moved as a single piece.

I like the breadboard ends effect. Check out Darrel Pearts Greene and Greene book, Chapter 13, for his technique on breadboard ends and splines. It's a really nice finishing touch to consider.

[Jim Becker]

I like the overall design. Were I doing this one, I'd consider doing something "interesting" with the stretcher rather than just settling on a straight, wide construction. Perhaps an arch or perhaps something that tapers just a little bit from the middle (fattest) out to the ends just to add a little uniqueness.

[Danny Thompson]

Thanks for the tips.

Yep, it was a through tenon. I see what you are saying, it shouldn't go through the leg, just the stretcher like a normal knock-down table.

My intention is to make the strecher detachable from the legs, and the legs detachable from the top.

Good idea about a decorative stretcher.. I'll play around with that a little.

The Mrs. is arguing for 4 legs, like this. Something about the peg in the strecher doesn't look right to me. Thoughts?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=98448&d=1223755443

[Dewey Torres]

I agree with Jim.

Look for some inspiration here:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=88101&highlight=trestle+table

[Jim Becker]

The four leg design potentially puts more "in the way" of people around the table, especially when you have guests. This is one of the wonderful things about the first design you posted...that configuration is more flexible relative to chair positions.

[Mike Cutler]

Danny

I would recommend the following course of action. Go to a Woodcraft store, or a really good bookstore. Get some books on the Stickley designs by Bob Lang, the Greene and Greene book by Darrel Peart. There is also a Craftsman Designs book. Also see if you can find some older copies of Style 1900 magazine. Definitiely Look at Mark Singer's Wenge Table here on Sawmill Creek. Go on eBay and look at the auction offerings by David Rago,and Jerry Cohen
Sit down with your wife and pull from the books design elements from various pieces,and then integrate them into a design of your own. Research the Golden Rule, and Fibonacci numbers for design dimensions and placement of individual design elements.

Your second design is close to some Stickley designs. Stickley's legs are more centered under the table and closer together. Not all of Stickley's work had through, and or exposed tenons. If the tenon looks wrong don't incorporate it just for the sake of having a through tenon. It busies the effect.

Personally, I like the 1st concept. I think it's easier to adapt that table to one with more of a Stickley, or Craftsman look. Soften the edges and it leans toward Greene and Greene. Play with arches and curves, as Jim suggests, and you move towards the seccesionists period.

You actually have some nice initial concepts going here.

PS.
Don't purposely distress the wood though. Done improperly, it looks cheesey.

[Danny Thompson]

Great ideas, guys. Mark Singer's table is a "beaut. " Great inspriation.

Over the weekend we bought about 100 bf. of a species (or is it a variety?) of African Mahogany called Sipo. All 12/4. Mark's Wenge is thinner, and much more elegant, but not quite as rugged as we are shooting for. And my guess is I won't have to add any distress/character outside of what happens as I try to navigate these beams around the shop.

I'm off to the bookstore now.

[Joe Cunningham]

Woodworking magazine had a nice trestle table design. I bought the 'book' which contains the first 7 issues of the magazine (it is a quarterly).

I was thinking of using their design as a starting point, but maybe shorten it up (my 'dining' area is not that big).

[John Schreiber]

. . .I, personally would set those trestle legs at about a 4 to 6 degree angle out from the top. The current design is a reflex parallelogram, and may be susceptible to "racking back and forth" along it's length. Changing the angle of the legs will inhibit this. . . .

Sorry to "highjack" the thread, but what do you mean by a reflex parallelogram?

[Mike Cutler]

Sorry to "highjack" the thread, but what do you mean by a reflex parallelogram?

John

Hopefully I am using the correct term, as this was the term used in high school Geometry Class when I was school. Which was, uhhm, not exactly recently;).
The most common example, I can think of, as a reflex parallelogram is the rear derailleur on a bicycle.
Assume the geometric shape of the rectangle. Two side equal with four 90 degree corners.If any one angle is changed to a value other than 90 degrees, and the length of the side(s) remains the same, the angle of the other three corners has to change in the same manner as the corner that was initially changed using the geometry principles of SAS( Side Angle Side) and ASA (Angle Side Angle)

Applying these principles to construction, If force is applied to one corner of rectangle. That same force is applied to the other corners. Once enough force is applied, All four corners will move at the same rate. The two adjacent corners will move to the reflexive angle of the corner the force is applied to, and the opposite corner will move to the same angle in a linear relationship. The reflex and non-relex angles will be linear.

Changing the angles of the legs doesn't allow the corners to move at the same rate. Adding a "natural" degree of strength and stability to resist force.

Now. I'm not in any way shape or form a math teacher, and it's been a long time since I did proofs, so I hope everyone cuts me some slack here on my explanation. If not, that's cool too, because discussion is how we all learn.

[Chris Friesen]

You might want to check the Autumn 2006 issue of Woodworking magazine. They have a really nice looking shaker-style trestle table as the main project.

The top thickness seems like overkill. You could likely do just fine with a thinner top (the Woodworking one is only 3/4").

You might want a center batten to help avoid cupping in the middle of the panel.

I wouldn't worry about racking with the original design. The nice wide stretcher is going to be very strong. To make it knock-down, I'd suggest a "tusk tenon". (For information see http://villagecarpenter.blogspot.com/2008/06/tusk-tenon.html)

[tim rowledge]

Assuming the line down the middle of the leg denotes the use of two pieces of wood, how about separating them by an inch (or so). It would add a little visual interest down there.

[Danny Thompson]

Applying a lot of your suggestions to the boss's demands, here is my working drawing. You can say I either a) split and separated the trestle or b) moved the 4 legs in (a la Mark Singer). Will a loose wedge/tusk tenon work properly in this design?

Any last minute warnings? (The top is a done deal. I completed the glue and screw last night.)

[Ted Calver]

Danny,
This one seems to have a smaller footprint than the trestle. Is there any danger of being tippy, or would the weight of the top keep it stable? (I always worry about kids rough housing around)

[Danny Thompson]

It does have a smaller footprint. I really don't know the answer, either, to the tippiness question. I figure I can try it out and, if necessary, add a foot on each end.

Anyone have insight? A formula? The top is about 225 lb. The base is about 125-150 lb.

[Steve Clardy]

Heres one I have in the finish room now.

[Matt Day]

The trestle table I built a few years ago only has about a 7/8" thick top and is plenty sturdy, and the whole thing probably weighs... I don't know 150-200 pounds? I used dovetails to attach the legs to the top, and wedge pins in the through tenon of the stretcher so I can take it all apart. It works well and is very sturdy, no racking at all. I put the wedge tenon horizontally, which might help you with your comment where you said yours doesn't look right.

I don't have a wife to obey though! ;)

Good luck!

[John Schreiber]

Heres one I have in the finish room now.
Steve, I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Is there an opening in the middle of the table? Or am I confused?

[Steve Clardy]

I'm putting a granite insert in there John. Place to set hot pans

[Danny Thompson]

I went with the last drawing except I left out the long stretcher just under the top. Still have work to do on the loose wedges and the finish. In the meantime, the Mrs. and I had a party Saturday night, so I set it up and threw a tablecloth over it. Since the wedges weren't ready, I screwed a temporary block on top of the through tenon where the wedge would normally go.

That table is solid as a rock. It certainly isn't tippy. I guess the weight is just too great. I don't think I could tip it without significant lifting pressure.

It's planing, scraping, sanding, and finishing over the next week or so, then post some pix.

Thanks all for your advice.

[FRITZ STOOP]

Bubinga table, lots of leg room.

[Mark Singer]

Thank you for the appreciation of my wenge table!
One important note here is that a person seated at a dining table uses 24" to 30" of width. So place the supports (the end of the tressel at 24 or 26" clear of the table end. This way there is no leg interference as you sit. "Outlookers" can be used for the cantilever. My table is very stable there has been no visible movement.

[Barrett Floyd]

Steve,
Could you show finished photos of this table? I want to do the same thing with a soapstone insert. How did you deal with the weight of the stone?
Thanks

[Steve Clardy]

Steve,
Could you show finished photos of this table? I want to do the same thing with a soapstone insert. How did you deal with the weight of the stone?
Thanks


Yes. I have it somewhere :confused:


I delivered it and took pics. So as I find the cotton picker.

[Steve Clardy]

Here tis...

Weight wasn't much of an issue. I inserted it here in the shop by myself.
Put a blanket on the table, then slide the insert into the hole. There are 3 straps under the table to hold the insert up.


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Here it is in the house along with the cabinets I did. Dark pics. House lighting is like a dungeon, not much light.

107930107931

[Barrett Floyd]

Thanks for the pics. My insert will be a bit bigger, 2'x4'x 1 1/2", so about 160 lbs. I don't think I'll try the insert by myself.

[Lee Schierer]

Make the bread board ends with blind tenons so you cant see them through the end. Leave a gap so the field can expand and contract, but cover the tenon on the sides of the table.

[Danny Thompson]

The final dimensions and joinery:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108300&d=1233070980

Crosslinked to the Woodworking Projects thread that shows the final product:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=102698

[Tony Bilello]

OOPS !! To late.

[Danny Thompson]

Oops! Too late: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=102698