Metric -- How many of you use it?

[Eric Larsen]

As most everyone knows, I'm still working on a staircase that has been kicking my butt for more than two months. (I'll be done in two weeks, I'm pretty sure.)

Yes, I'm a n00b. But I'm very happy with my results so far. So is LOML. I run with the slogan, "Perfect is good enough."

Lately, I've been measuring in centimeters and millimeters because it is significantly easier. I'm quite sick of subtracting sixteenths from quarters. It is a ridiculous system.

My work has become much more precise since using the "metric" side of my tapes and straightedges. I've always been good with celsius degrees, liters and kilograms. But I've clung my whole life to inches and feet. No longer. I can't stand thinking of "1 and 1/8 plus a bit less than a 16th"

So my question is:

How many of y'all "educated in the USA" woodworkers have ditched inches for centimeters?

Is there a down side that I haven't considered?

[Steve Schoene]

I haven't gone to metric, and its not likely that I will. Mostly it's because I use very few numeric measurements of any kind because they are too imprecise for good furniture making. Traditional practice uses marking gauges, story sticks, and graphic layout devises (compass and ruler) just to avoid measurements. With modern machinery, making cuts with the same machine settings for all similar parts, keeps the parts of equal size and thickness. It's much more important that parts match each other, and not important whether a table is 32" (81 centimeters) high or 31 1/2 (80 cm). Dimensional accuracy is important only in production situations, but I'm not doing that. Sure you can fit mortises and tenons numerically with tolerances of say .02 mm, or .001", but if the joint is fitted so that the tenon slides into the mortise only with firm hand pressure will give you just as accurate joints.

[Wilbur Pan]

As Steve said, avoiding measurements is a good thing and a good way to avoid errors. But when I do measure, I'll often use metric. One huge advantage is that instead of 1", I'll think in terms of 24 mm, which means that you can divide things by 2, 3, 4, and 6 very easily.

[John Keeton]

As with Steve and Wilbur, I try to avoid "measuring", but when I do I use the fractional method only because after 60 years, it is just too difficult to change. No doubt, metric makes more sense and is easier. Were I younger, and had 50 -60 years ahead of me, I would devote the effort to switch.

Eric, doing a stairway is a "measured task", and I can certainly see the advantages of the metric system in what you are doing.

Actually, instead of fractional or metric, I have clung to the "just a hair, scosh, smidge, etc. method." Seems to have worked so far, but communicating the needed length to others can be a challenge!!

[Von Bickley]

I agree with John..... and I'm too old to switch.:D

[Ray Schafer]

I have considered changing, but I still use a lot of plans for what I do. All of them use the english system and the effort to convert everything is too overwhelming.

I use metric sometimes, but I generally fall back to english.

[Jack Briggs]

I use metric measurement all the time. When I need more accuracy, however, I return to standard and use my caliipers to measure to .001".

[Les Zielinski]

Metric - if I work alone. Standard - if I work with others. I would like to mention that "metric" is the system that everyone in this country uses when it comes to money. 10 cents to a dime, 10 dimes to a dollar.
Every electrician knows what 0.3 Volts means.
I am not trying to say that "metric" is better. My digital caliper can be configured to display metric or standard measurements and I use this this function often.
I do wait for the day when Incra's LS Positioner will be available in "metric".
(Yes, I know it will take some time)

Les

[Aaron Beaver]

I have considered changing, but I still use a lot of plans for what I do. All of them use the english system and the effort to convert everything is too overwhelming.

I use metric sometimes, but I generally fall back to english.

Same here, if I didn't use plans I might try metric if I built something from scratch. Only problems is I can picture what 1 foot is I have a hard time seeing the equivalent in a metric number.

[Greg Cole]

I've worked with all Euro manufactured machinery for almost a decade. Honestly it's second nature for me from fastener sizes, thread pitches, phisical dimensions etc. All our metal working machinery DRO's are set up in millimeters and our measuring equip is all metric too (calipers, inside n outside mic's).
+1 for what Steve said.
I too measure very little of anything for furniture building, but what few things I do measure I measure with metric increments. Gauges and story sticks go a long ways for repetitive accuracy.

Greg

[Rod Sheridan]

Well Eric, I wasn't educated in the US, I'm Canadian.

Canada has been metric since the 70's, however many non technical people probably don't use the metric system for measurements outside of litres, kilograms, and kilometres for driving distances.

I switched to the metric system in the workshop when I made some cabinets based on the 32mm system. After that, as you said, it's far easier to add 765mm + 21.5mm than it is to add 28 1/64" + 7 3/4".

My Hammer A3-31 was ordered with the digital planer gauge in mm. One revolution of the handle changes the planer height by 2mm.

My tablesaw has an Imperial/Metric tape, my digital calipers change indication at the touch of a button. I've also purchased metric rules and tape measures.

Of course if you deal with sheet goods, using the metric system is advantageous as well.

I always joke with people that the two great superpowers (USA and Botswana) are the only remaining contries using the Imperial system.

NOTE: The above comment is meant to be humourous, don't take offence at it.

I have to admit that I would have guessed that the US would have adopted the metric system after the Revolutionary war, I'm always amazed that you broke your ties with the British, yet kept their measurement system.

(Yes I know that you didn't update the system when they introduced the Imperial System in 1824, resulting in some present differences in units).

regards, Rod.

[Jeff Duncan]

I use them both. I'm lucky enough that I don't have trouble with adding fractions or converting back and forth from metric to standard. But I do it on a daily basis so it's something you get used to with time. I also have a much easier time walking into a room and guesstimating it's size in feet. If I had to guess in meters I'd have to think feet first and do a very rough conversion in my head.
good luck,
JeffD

[Curt Harms]

.... Only problems is I can picture what 1 foot is I have a hard time seeing the equivalent in a metric number.

to the adoption of metric. Everybody knows by sight a #8 screw or a 5/16" bolt or whatever. 8mm, 3cm etc. are less intuitive. Anybody who works on modern cars gets some exposure to metric, but that may not translate to the scale used in woodworking.

Curt

[glenn bradley]

I'll use either when not using a story stick or reference piece. In order of preference I guess it would be fractional to get started, story stick or actual piece to proceed and metric if handy.

Most production cabinet shops went metric long ago. Its just so much easier to know that 17.7mm comes after 17.6mm as opposed to 31/32nds follows 123/128ths. . . not that I usually measure in 128ths ;-) Just an example.

[Jamie Buxton]

I use decimal inches. I get the primary benefit of the metric system -- decimals -- but without having to translate from English units.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...easier to know that 17.7mm comes after 17.6mm..."

This is a good point. It's interesting that this highlights both an advantage and a disadvantage of the metric system. The "problem" is that for "by eye" measuring using rulers or tapes, one mil is the smallest practical division. A ruler divided into tenths of a mil is unreadable. So being able to break 1/32 of an inch into 64ths is "better" or at least "easier". In actual shop conditions either system is more likely to be nudged aside for the "just a hair, scosh, smidge, etc. method" John mentioned.

[Burt Alcantara]

I try to use metric. When I do, I like it, but something usually pops up that puts me back to standard.

Interestingly enough, my wife and I use metric in the kitchen. It is much more accurate then imperial. All of our favorite cookbooks have metric measurements.

Burt

[Jesse Cloud]

Interesting thread. I'm using metric more and more. I can do the fractional math, but the chances of error are much less with metric.

[Rob Diz]

I just put in my first order with Walzcraft. They prefer metric, so I got some metal rules and went to down ordering doors.

What a nice experience.

Metric is SOOOO easy.

[Larry Fox]

I want to make the switch but I look around my shop and I have soo much stuff that is imperial that I just never get around to it. I also try not to measure unless I really have to.

[Jim Summers]

Metric every now and then, not much though. I am really trying to get into the habit of using story sticks, stop blocks, etc...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The metric system of measurement is inherently dangerous.
I won't touch it.

[Rod Sheridan]

The metric system of measurement is inherently dangerous.
I won't touch it.


And inherently dangerous is something the gnat's wing expert knows well......Rod.

[Peter Quinn]

Metric very occasionally, like when setting of for cup hinges. But for situations where I need real accuracy, I'm not reaching for a ruler at all. And on work over a long span I use decimal equivalents and a calculator to avoid the common denominator fractional conversion mistake nightmare.

I prefer to drink beer by the deciliter, so I use the metric system there too!:D

[Jim Becker]

I want to move to metric, but sometimes it's just hard to get my mind in gear to do it. It's not like I don't already have the measuring tools in my shop to accommodate it! So does all my Euro equipment. LOL

Interestingly, when I was doing a small project with my 13 year old daughter two weeks ago (I still need to prepare and post that) I made her do the measuring and cutting. (hand saw!) She chose to use metric so we did. This was just for a small bed for a popular 18" doll, but the results were no different than if she had picked inches and fractions...outside of the fact that she has trouble with fractions. ;)

[Leo Zick]

I want to move to metric, but sometimes it's just hard to get my mind in gear to do it. It's not like I don't already have the measuring tools in my shop to accommodate it! So does all my Euro equipment. LOL


i think its like speaking another language, you still think in native tongue...

for measuring, it doesnt matter. you can think 'oh ill need around an inch', but when getting precise, all you have to do is measure and remember 24mm. in the end, does your mind need to gear to it at all, other than a sanity check? like the OP said.. how much sanity is in 1-1/4" minus an eighth, add another 2/3rd to make up for..
lol

[mreza Salav]

Interesting question.
I came to North America about 10 years ago, and until a few years ago (when I started woodworking) I kept measuring/thinking/calculating in metrics. After I started dealing with tools/router bits/ sheet goods/ all in standard I had no choice but to start working with standard.
Now I pretty much do everything in inch and I hate working with those fractions!!
I miss those good old days of working with millimeter/centimeter.:o

[Victor Stearns]

I have to agree that the metric system is much easier to do the math with. We use both metic, referred to as the SI system at the office, and of course it always see,s to depend on who does the drawings, with some SI and some in Imperial, inches. Thus we spend too much time converting from one to the other. (just makes you learn quicker I guess.)
I personally enjoy the metric, SI system. Still working on converting at the measuring devices in the shop to SI.
Victor

[Chuck Tringo]

As a chemistry major, metric is all I used in college; at work in the Army, i use both imperial and metric (km or 'clics' for distance; lbs for weights).; but in the shop I find myself using swag as most here mentioned (just a smidge) and imperial. For me it wouldn't be too difficult to switch to metric as I don't really measure that much to distance anyways, I measure to fit, a habit I picked up doing hundreds of feet of trim and moulding in my last 2 houses.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Hello,
I don't know either - so I use both.:confused:

[Chris Kennedy]

I like the language analogy. My family is Australian, and whenever I am there, everything is in metric. When immersed in it, I have no trouble using it. I quickly become accustomed to measuring in it, and don't really need to convert back to standard. Coming back to the States, I have no trouble going back to standard.

On the other hand, I find the mm too small for most measurements. The other thing is that 12 is more natural for some design purposes. We tend to like 2,3,4,5,6-fold symmetry, with 2,4,6 being more common. 12 is naturally divisible by all but 5, and 16 is divisible by 2 and 4. 10 is only 2 and 5.

Also, if it is the fractions that people are avoiding, you can divide an inch into 10 parts. LV sells measures in decimal inches.

Cheers,

Chris

[J. Z. Guest]

I'm torn, and read this thread with great interest.

The problem is that I've got at least a few hundred dollars (not Euros) invested in Imperial measuring equipment. $100 Starrett square, $20 tape measure, $25 2' ruler, 4" dial caliper, etc. Two of my main machines, my table saw and my jointer, are both graduated in inches too.

If I switched, I'd have to replace them all, and convert every plan to metric before starting. Then, I'd have to convert board feet and memorize sheet good thicknesses in metric.

Using reference measurements is OK for some things, but one still has to start with measurements to create those references.

By the way, those of you who are remembering one inch as 24 mm, 25 mm is much closer. (since 1" = 25.4 mm)

Something that isn't mentioned is that if we gave up the imperial system, we wouldn't be as sharp, mathematically-speaking. What would be the motivation in remembering how to do fractions? Once in a while, I'll balance my checkbook without a calculator or divide or multiply something on paper, just so I don't lose the skill. Going to metric would be a lost skill. I feel bad enough having forgotten how to do calculus and the more advanced 2/3 of algebra I used to know. Algebra is bloody useful too.

I think the real reason the US doesn't switch is fear of costly errors on a huge scale from folks who are used to the imperial system. Or even just the initial cost of switching.

One last brain dropping: Imagine how much more Chinese junk we'd have here if we were on metric? They wouldn't even have to convert anything to ship it over! </devil's advocate>

[Bob Slater]

I had metric foisted on me around grade 7 in school. I still far prefer Imperial for Temperature and speed, and most measurements. 100 MPH =very fast, 100 degrees f = very hot, 0= very cold. Celsius for temp is kinda vague other than the freezing and boiling points. Same with speed. Is 147 KMH/Hr ridiculously fast or the speed of traffic?
For building I prefer inches. For working on cars, I much prefer Metric. For purchasing and measuring liquids, I prefer metric.

[Ray Schafer]

Well, has anyone tried Bob's Rule?

[Ray Schafer]

Hase anyone tried Bob's Rule: http://www.bobsrule.com/index.htm

[Mark Singer]

I use metric often. I also use feet and inches especially for overall and breking down measurements

[Ray Schafer]

Good point about 25 mm being closer to an inch. Someone made a good point earlier though ... if you always use multiples of 2, you can breakdown the parts better ... halfway is 12 mm, as and example.

Another good point made earlier ... the tools, sheet goods, plans, etc. are all typically in imperial (I said English earlier ... I think either may be correct). Tying to constantly switch between the two may just cause more possibility of error.

I read an article in one of the "important" magazines lately. (Around my house "important" means "woodworking.") It talked about Bob's rule. The benefit is supposed to be that the inch is divided into the right number of parts to make just the right level of accuracy. It sounded very intriguing, but again, the idea of taking a plan and changing 23/32 into twenty-fourths of an inch does not really appeal to me. But I am thinking about it.

[John Keeton]

Hase anyone tried Bob's Rule: http://www.bobsrule.com/index.htm
That is really interesting!! I could work with that concept - maybe it will catch on.

[William OConnell]

Never. If its not broke don't fix it. Moving up to the highest denominator in fractions has become second nature for me and frankly is simple. I don't see the benefit in woodworking for the metric system for me.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

And inherently dangerous is something the gnat's wing expert knows well......Rod.

Darn tootin~!!

[harry strasil]

LOL, I am old fashioned, I don't use Muttrick at all, some foreign made stuff was muttric when I was in the Blacksmith shop, if I needed to use Muttrick guess ing, I converted it to American.
Millie Meter should have drowned on her way across the pond in my opinion.

On the other hand, most of my farm customers had me convert Muttrick stuff to American so parts were easy to come by.

[Tim Put]

All three at once, decimal inches, fractional imperial, and metric. Lutherie is a mess of measuring systems, 34" scale length, 17mm string spacing, 0.022" fret slots, and 7/32" truss rod routs.

[chris yount]

I have to use both at work the cnc machine (Italian) is setup on metric and we get our measurements in inches and convert numbers as we enter them.after 20 years I can think both ways and convert numbers in my head without thinking about them.
I relate the mm measurement to inches as cents to quarters.
25 cent =1quarter, 25mm=1 inch then break things down in between from there. 100 mm = 4" or a dollar for bigger numbers.
A little simplistic but I can run fairly large numbers quickly through my mind this way.

[Lee DeRaud]

I have to agree that the metric system is much easier to do the math with.Yes, but...

That comment reminds me of a similar 'metric' thread on rec.woodworking many years ago. There was one twit there who was convinced that the whole world should convert to metric because "then we could do everything in decimal arithmetic, which would make computers run faster". (In the words of Dave Barry, "I am not making this up.")

Made my head hurt, I tell ya.

[Mike Henderson]

I like metric because dealing with fractions is hard. But whatever you get used to works.

It would be nice if we only had one system to deal with worldwide. The conversions between systems introduce errors every now and again (because someone makes an error - not because the measurements can't be converted accurately).

Mike

[Nissim Avrahami]

I'm using Metric without any problems :D

I worked on the Boeing airplanes and I'm familiar to the English system so, at work it was English but at home Metric.

I do understand the problem of "Metric" in "English" country...believe me that it's very difficult to talk English in a country that everybody speaks Polish.

Here, everything is Metric except the pipes (you know, like those for the Ponny clamps) that are still measured in "Zall" (German for Inch) and the TV screen size.

I don't think that USA will change to Metric (at least not soon) because the cost will be huge...

Just take a factory like Boeing and try to change all the machinery, drawings manuals etc to metric....and that's only one...

But, I do agree that it's much easier to make all the calculations in metric...

I'm not using only Millimeters. When it's more than 10mm I move to Centimeters - kind of, instead 547mm - I write 54.7cm and, considering the fact the all the rules and measuring tapes are "reading" in Centimeters, it looks to me more logical to write what I read and read what I write...

In Poland, they have a say - "You cannot re-plant an old tree" that means; very difficult to change old people mind (opinion) and , I agree....better to stick to what one is use to...

Regards
niki

[Jim Becker]

One thing I forgot to mention in my original post is that I actually don't use a rule/tape to measure everything on a project...only the initial main dimensions. From there, I use story sticks and exact measurements directly off the project. Units don't matter since there aren't any. Even setting up for a cut on the saw can be done using the stick with a direct measurement on it! This also means you lose any variations that might be inherent in a particular rule or tape since...you're actually not using it. :) All of this could actually make my bridge to metric easier when I think about it, although it clearly doesn't matter what units are used for that initial sizing.

[Doug Miller 303]

All of this could actually make my bridge to metric easier when I think about it, although it clearly doesn't matter what units are used for that initial sizing.


No, please, I beg of you, don't do it. This is America!! We don't like metric. Those pesky mm's are a candy coated chocolate!!

In all seriousness though, it is very unlikely that the U.S. will ever switch to metric entirely.

The major reason for the rest of the world switching over was because of World War II. Most of Europe had to be rebuilt, and it made sense at the time to make the switch then. The North American continent on the other hand sustained very little damage, and therefore there was no need to make the change.

I'm in construction, and work on military projects. The government decided that they wanted to switch to metric back in the 80's, but the program failed miserably. This also involved surveying, and it too failed miserably. I doubt that they will try to make the change again for quite a few decades. Construction is the single largest industry in America, and 99.9% of what we do is in the Imperial system. Those of us in the construction industry are vehemently opposed to switching to metric, and therefore the rest of the country will not be able to switch until after we do.

And like the other fella said before, metric doesn't lend itself well to division by 3 or 4. Dividing things up into three's and four's is used quite often in construction, and therefore the metric system would be a huge PITA.

Somebody came up with the grand idea of using a system of 32 in metric. There is such a huge similarity to that and the construction industry's 16 inch standard. 16+16=32 whodathunkit??? Now I ask you, is the metric system trying to emulate the Imperial system?

Just my 2/100th dollars, FWIW.

Doug

[Michael Parr]

When I do mock ups at work I usually use metric since its easier to see the 8mm as apposed to the x/x system. Also division wise or subtracting widths of materials off is much easier in a decimal system.

I might just buy this

http://www.amazon.com/Fastcap-PMMR-TRUE32-True32-Reverse-measuring/dp/B000GFHABG/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1234045157&sr=1-10

Or go looking at Lowes or Home Depot for one to avoid shipping.

PS I never did a lot of inch measurements as a kid so its harder for me to count the 1/8 marks on the tape measure and remember what units I was in (4,8,16 or 32nds).

[Wilbur Pan]

And like the other fella said before, metric doesn't lend itself well to division by 3 or 4. Dividing things up into three's and four's is used quite often in construction, and therefore the metric system would be a huge PITA.

Well, if you look at woodworking articles from the other side of the pond, you'll find that they tend to work with 24 mm being a typical thickness. 24 mm, besides being close to 1", can be divided by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, and 12. This is much easier than using inches. I can't remember the last time I saw a ruler marked in 1/3".

[Bob Genovesi]

I'm both and raised on the inch system and while I use metric's at work as soon as I walk out the door I'm back to the American system..... Thank God!

The Metric system is a language, in America we speak English and measure in inches....

[Jim Kountz]

I agree that the math is easier with metric but I havent used it enough to know what the measurements are. What I mean is yes its easier to add 17.7mm + 73.9mm and get 91.6mm. I have no idea how much that is!! For example ever find yourself looking for a scrap say 6" long? You can look and know right away if a piece will work for you or not. Now then if I needed something say 53.3mm I wouldnt have the foggiest idea of what to look for.
I guess all that would come in time having applied the metric system but I just dont want to, dont feel like it!! LOL

[Doug Miller 303]

Fellas,

I just love to argue with my Paw about this very subject, he thinks the metric system is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I tell him he voted for Mao Tse-tung.;)

Evil, I tell you, it is evil. :D:D

Doug

[Myk Rian]

Same here, if I didn't use plans I might try metric if I built something from scratch. Only problems is I can picture what 1 foot is I have a hard time seeing the equivalent in a metric number.
I spent 20 years repairing precision tools, and had to learn metric measurement. I agree it is much more precise and easy.
I don't use it with WWing since all my tools are in english.
I found these pages of rulers that you can print for an easy reference for conversion.
http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/dir3/paper_rulers/
This one is especially nice. http://www.vendian.org/mncharity/dir3/paper_rulers/UnstableURL/rulers_combo_sample.gif

[Jeff Bratt]

The "problem" is that for "by eye" measuring using rulers or tapes, one mil is the smallest practical division. A ruler divided into tenths of a mil is unreadable.

You must mean one millimeter - a ruler marked in mils (.001") would only be readable under a strong magnifier...

Personally, I use inch measurements because that's how many tools and much hardware in the US is sized or marked. It's too bad the US mostly terminated its transition to the metric system in the 1980s. We could have joined the rest of the world, but now the dual measurement systems here seem like they will continue indefinitely.

[David Keller NC]

Wow, Guys, This is seriously digging up a dead post - the last entries before today were 4 months ago!

[Jim Becker]

I have not gone metric, but have the means to do so easily, both in my stationary equipment (MiniMax), portable electrics (Festool) and with my dual metric/imperial rules at the bench. I just have to pick a project and take it all the way through. Hmm...maybe my buffet project coming up. :)

[Dennis Puskar]

To old to switch to the metric system I'll stick with the fractions and converting to the decimal equivalent.

Dennis

[Richard M. Wolfe]

Just because I'm too lazy to dig around and find the answer I'll pose the question here.

How is wood marketed in the metric system? That is, what's used instead of a board foot?

[Pat Keefe]

Just because I'm too lazy to dig around and find the answer I'll pose the question here.

How is wood marketed in the metric system? That is, what's used instead of a board foot?

Funnily enough, over here in the land of Bushfires and floods, you can purchase sheets 6mm ply, 1/4" ply, solids in Board Foot or by the cube (cubic meter) or by the meter, measure surfboards in feet and inches, get every tool in both languages and be misunderstood by the rest of the world:)

[Darius Ferlas]

That is, what's used instead of a board foot?
Cubic meters are used for that. In fact a board foot is a unit of volume too.

Metric system is well and alive in the US. Just think about it when pouring some pop/soda from a two liter plastic bottle and snacking on a 100 gram Powerbar you paid for in metric currency in a store where lighting is measured in metric units such as Watts, Amps, Volts and the backround music is likely played from 120 milimeter CDs.

Just make sure those Powerbars don't contain too many grams of whatever you think you wouldn't like to eat too much of. Any American doctor will tell you that too many milligrams of sugar per deciliter can't be good for anybody, even if sugar isn't as bad as a few grams of the "good stuff". The latter should be avoided by definition, especially that it is illegal and there are plenty of guys with 9 mm guns ready to bust anyone using it.

The awareness and popularity of the metric system in the US may be light-years away, but the fact is that the system is very much in use.

I was born and raised in metric system but I use SAE for woodworking quite comfortably and because I simply can't wrap my head around 1,219.2mm by 2,438.4 which is a standard sheet of 4 by 8 material. I think that construction is the main reason why metric is not so popular in everyday use.

[Peter Quadarella]

For furniture making I see no benefit to using the metric system. All measurements are done in inches, and I never see anyone measuring in feet or miles.

If you are talking about using decimals instead of fractions that is a different discussion. Personally I enjoy the fractions a bit, but I can see the usefulness of using decimals sometimes.

[Jim Becker]

The awareness and popularity of the metric system in the US may be light-years away, but the fact is that the system is very much in use.

Our school district teaches both and without a doubt, my daughters picked up metric a lot faster and easier. Fractions have been a real struggle...

[Steven J Corpstein]

I just made my first set of cabinets using all metric (wanted to use the 32mm system) and I'll never go back to Imperial now. I own quite a few Festools and they're all metric so it was really screwing me up converting all the time.

After using metric, I realized it's more a fear thing then a difficult thing to switch over. I realize there is the retooling issue but most tools have both systems on them. I'm not going to replace all my machinists tools because the cost would be prohibitive.

[Darius Ferlas]

For furniture making I see no benefit to using the metric system. All measurements are done in inches, and I never see anyone measuring in feet or miles.

There is certainly little benefit to metric system in the US, but not in general. If a 2x4 were a 4x10(cm), a 1by4 were a 2x10(cm), and the standard height of a room was 2.4 or 2.5 m instead of 2.4384 m (8 feet) then I think you would see the benefit of metric. It simply wins hands down.

It looses in the US not based on merit but because of a long standing tradition of using SAE. Often it's not how hard it is to learn new things, but rather how difficult it is to unlearn the old ones.

[Alan Schwabacher]

One of the problems with the English system is that it encourages you to think in terms of halving proportions, and makes other proportional designs trickier.

The argument against Metric that there is no convenient small unit is not strong in my view. Different scales have different precision markings, depending on their use. A half mm is only 0.004" larger than 1/64", and would do fine as a scale marking.

But the real advantage to Metric is that all the units for all different kinds of measurements fit together nicely, without the need for a bewildering array of conversion factors. For woodworking, there is not much difference between the systems. That's true in almost any very limited context. But if using feet, inches, and fractions keeps you from learning about how to use Metric, you are robbing yourself of an easier comparison of many other things.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I work in the medical field. I use metric daily at work and then come home to my car...and my woodworking ....and go back to Imperial.

I don't care which system they use. I just wish everything in the US was one system or the other.

I was taught metric and Imperial in HS in the 60's that the US would go to metric on a future date. I'm sure that date has come and gone....at least I don't remember the date.

Just pick one and go with it.

[Carlos Alden]

To date I've mostly made musical instruments and small boxes, no furniture or cabinets yet. I've dealt with outdoor decks and treehouses and some light construction.

When handling normal construction projects it's easier to use Imperial because, as has been pointed out, that's what things are premeasured with: 2x4, 4x8, etc.

But in doing anything else it is much easier to use metric. It's SO EASY to do margin measurements or centering with millimeters. It's even very easy to quick eyeball estimate at half a millimeter.

As a teenager I briefly lived in England in 1969 right at the time they made the conversion from pounds/shillings/pence to their decimal money system. It was very hard for elderly people and philosophically resistant folks to make the change, but they did and within a few months it was no problem at all. It's just a matter of "seeing" something with a new name.

If I go outside right now and feel the air I think "Hmm..... 32 degrees." But if I first check the centigrade temperature, then go outside and consciously think of it as "Zero" degrees, and do this every morning, noon, and night, I bet in a short week I'm "feeling" the temperature in centigrade. Switching from one system to the other would not be that hard. It's just a matter of doing it.

Carlos

[Tom Majewski]

Anyone remember the great US Metric Act of 1975?
Everyone in the US was supposed to switch to metric after that date. Whaddit last...2-3 weeks-lol. I was a senior in HS that year and I remember it being heavily drilled in class. It had all the panic of the Y2K scare. It was abolished in '88

The only time I remember it being forced on me was during the gas shortage in the 70's. They switched the pumps from gallons to $/liter because the mechanical spinning wheels on the pump couldn't register over 99 cents.

I'm in the engineering field and I always use decimal-inch.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Metric measurement systems are inherently dangerous.
It is a fact that the vast number of industrial accidents occur when people are using metrics.

I won't go near them for nuthin.

[Stephen Edwards]

Wow, Guys, This is seriously digging up a dead post - the last entries before today were 4 months ago!




Just goes to show.....there is life after death.

[Chris Padilla]

Wow, Guys, This is seriously digging up a dead post - the last entries before today were 4 months ago!





4 months is nothing and hardly digging...maybe blowing the sawdust off of the topic?

I've seen 2-3-4 year old posts resurfacing here and there. Now that is digging! :)

***************************

I stick primarily to English. Yeah, it can be cumbersome adding and subtracting fractions but it keeps your noodle going (and increases mistakes which means you really need to think more carefully).

However, in college engineering, we get nothing but metric so it isn't so mysterious to me.

A good way to get yourself converted over (if you're interested), is to move to decimal inches instead of this silly halving of everything. Divide by 10 and life is much easier.