PDA

View Full Version : Have you ever wondered?



Dave Sidlow
10-08-2008, 11:56 PM
I live in a relative urban area and often work in my shop at night, as many of you do. My dog, a Great Dane/Lab, is usually in the shop with me, but she would lick any intruder and expect rubs in return. Have you ever wondered what tool you would grab if an intruder entered your shop? My Japanese saw hangs on a wall, or maybe a 1" chisel. What would you grab in a moment's notice to defend yourself? Ok, if the dude had a gun, I would simply give up.

Don Eddard
10-09-2008, 1:31 AM
The nearest exit

Failing that:

Hammer
2' to 4' level (good handholds) or 2x4 lumber of similar length
Hatchet or Axe
5/8" bowl gouge with 24" steel handle and rubber grips

John Keeton
10-09-2008, 4:03 AM
Don't want to create political debate and irk the mods, but this is why we have the 2nd amendment. There is only one "tool" appropriate for this job. If you truly feel this is an issue, then a gun is the only tool and should be kept in your apron pocket. Burglars that enter your home while you are out are one breed, but the guy that comes in knowing you are there has already made the decision to hurt or kill you if you get in the way. He probably has the appropriate tool with him, and none of the mentioned tools will do anything except get you hurt.

I am never too far from "one" of my pistols, but rarely in the shop. But, I live in a rural area, on acreage, and don't feel the need to have one while in the shop. Were I in your situation, I wouldn't even have to ask the question!

Mods, if I went too far with this one, feel free to delete and I apologize in advance!

Mikail Khan
10-09-2008, 4:13 AM
Step 1 - grab Finish nailer/Brad nailer.

Step 2 - hook up air hose

Step 3 - Hope that compressor is switched on.:o

MK

Mike Cutler
10-09-2008, 5:06 AM
Exit if I can. Next is to find the nearest can of an aerosol solvent and aim for the face, then get out.
Going toe to toe with someone in this scenario could well be a losing proposition.

John
Nothing wrong with your position. Like you, I don't have a firearm in the shop. I hope I never have to feel that need.

Chris Barnett
10-09-2008, 5:12 AM
If an intruder makes it to my shop, he has proceeded to the deepest bowels of the dwelling, for it is in the back, underground at the far end, without windows or outside doors, and he has already passed the more noteworthy items to remove from my possession.....in the fridge or freezer...except for the excellent swiss which I finished yesterday. Oh, yes, what would I pick up to defend myself...guess it would be a cat and sling it at him....if I had a cat.

Chris Kennedy
10-09-2008, 5:53 AM
Fire extinguisher -- hopefully momentarily blind him, make breathing hard, and it that doesn't work, hit him with it as I get the H E double hockey sticks out of there. My shop is insured -- things can be replaced. I'm insured too, but I am really hoping that my wife doesn't think that it is at replacement value.:D

Cheers,

Chris

Rick Thom
10-09-2008, 6:03 AM
Cell phone, and dial 911.

Jeff Duncan
10-09-2008, 9:12 AM
I agree with the exit strategy, live to fight another day! The problem with a pistol or any other weapon is that the intruder has the advantage in that he knows what he is about to get into. You on the other hand will have the disadvantage of being taken by surprise and then quickly have to make a decision as to what to do as he's coming at you. Then go find said weapon which likely wouldn't be right next to you at any given moment (except maybe in Texas:D).
If your exit is blocked then I really like the fire extinguisher idea. Allows you to defend from a distance. Anything that keeps you at a distance is best, IMO. Going hand to hand with a chisel or saw blade will likely end badly. Or of course you could go get yourself a meaner dog:D
good luck,
JeffD

alex grams
10-09-2008, 9:19 AM
I have thought about that very situation, because with a front facing garage on the house, anyone walking by can walk up to me working in my shop if i I have the door open, which in nice weather is usually the case)

It is about 5 steps to the door leading into the house from my shop, close that and then about another 5 steps to get the .45 or 12 gauge. I would hope whoever got motivated enough to come into my house would again be motivated enough to leave after hearing a pump action shot gun get cocked behind the door. Because believe me, he does NOT want to know what is behind door #3.

Get out of there first though, then if he keeps coming and takes another step in my house through that door, it may very well be his last.

There is also my double sided axe on the wall, but I really would not want to have to go Lizzy Borden on someone....

Sensitive subject though, hope this conversation remains civil.

Brian Penning
10-09-2008, 9:23 AM
What did Danny Glover say in Lethal Weapon 2?....."Nailed them!"

Charles Trout
10-09-2008, 9:26 AM
I have to agree with John, this is what our second amendment rights are for.

However, in the spirit of the question if I had to immediately defend myself from a crazed attacker I think I would go for a chisel. Recently sharpened, they cut wood like butter, and they cut skin like they cut air.

If I had to resort to a chisel to defend my life it would be only in the most dire of circumstances....

Rod Sheridan
10-09-2008, 9:28 AM
Since my shop is in the basement, it's not something I think about.

I guess I could grab Ellington the shop cat and throw him at the intruder?

Regards, Rod.

Christopher Foote
10-09-2008, 10:42 AM
I'd reach for a crowbar. A chisel would let him get to close. As far as a gun is concerned that would work nicely as well, but storing it in your woodworking apron, that is ridiculous.

Christopher

John Willoughby
10-09-2008, 10:53 AM
I have to agree with John, this is what our second amendment rights are for.



I agree with you 100%

Art Mulder
10-09-2008, 11:04 AM
Have you ever wondered what tool you would grab if an intruder entered your shop?

Nope. Never have.

Ken Fitzgerald
10-09-2008, 12:22 PM
Not until this thread was brought but.....


My Alan Lacer 1 1/4" skew..................Sharp...sharp...sharp.....lo ts of mass and a long handle.........

Shawn Walker
10-09-2008, 12:42 PM
Nope. Never have.


Same here. :D

John Holder
10-09-2008, 1:25 PM
My shop now is a T hangar at a small airport. There are many more walk-ups then when I worked in the garage. Being from Texas, I do not go anywhere without a handgun. Sometimes more than one if I am feeling froggy. The first thing I do when I get to the shop is take my watch, keys, wallet, and gun and put them in the top drawer of the tool box.

I know the intruder would have the element of surprise but, I can afford to spend more money wasting ammo at the range than most theives. Whatever tool you choose, be skilled at it. I have some old hooks I inherited from my granfathers days as a meatpacker. I think if I was going to reach for something (other than a pistol) one of those would be fun. 36" inches of 5/8 bar with a hook sharpened to a point. They also work great for pulling ceilings.

PS. I love Texas

Jamie Baalmann
10-09-2008, 1:48 PM
I have the feeling that any intruder that enters when you are there, working with power tools, is coming to hurt you/your family.... so, I don't think I would run unless it was clear to run inside for a gun. The most important question in the situation is what are you working on. If your banging together some 2x4's then obviously hit him with some framing nails, or if your using the skilsaw then pull back the blade guard and tackle him with it in front of you (hope not to run out of extension cord). I have definitely given it thought. Anything close by that would keep him at a distance crowbar shovel 2x4... An even better question is if he walks into your shop what "weapon" is he going to grab, if he sees you grab a weapon you better hope he doesn't grab one that trumps yours.
I was working in a very bad neighborhood on some stairs and groups of guys would walk by and talk about stealing my shoes...tools...whatever. Then would keep on walking after hearing the framing nailer or misc saw. I didn't feel safe without a gun in my truck and a friend helping me.

Brian Clevenger
10-09-2008, 1:54 PM
Maybe I'm a freak, but I have thought about this more than once.

I also have a front garage. However, I only crack my overhead doors with about 1' of clearance.... just enough for my fan to circulate air. The main reason is that I don't need every driver-by to know the contents of my shop.

I keep a .38 in a cabinet within easy reach of my workbench, drill press, miter saw, and hand tools. It would be the "go to tool" in that situation.

If I were closer to the table saw, band saws, and lathe.... I might just start stomping his head as he tried to crawl in the doorway. Other than that; perhaps my skew chisel or just start whupping him with a 24tooth rippping blade.

Either way, I do like my odds in that situation.

Kris Koenig
10-09-2008, 2:16 PM
I live in a relative urban area and often work in my shop at night, as many of you do. My dog, a Great Dane/Lab, is usually in the shop with me, but she would lick any intruder and expect rubs in return. Have you ever wondered what tool you would grab if an intruder entered your shop? My Japanese saw hangs on a wall, or maybe a 1" chisel. What would you grab in a moment's notice to defend yourself? Ok, if the dude had a gun, I would simply give up.

To play along, yes I have thought about it. It is one of those things I have always thought about, even at church. And I am actually a very non-violent person.

So let's see. What would I grab? Well, it could be something boring like a hammer, or it could be a 6 foot slashing spear... maybe a 7 foot boar spear... hmmm, it is only a step or two to the swords.... you know, the Magyar recurve bow is right beside them... there is a shield or three handy, too.

I would be robbed before I made up my mind.

Kris

Ben Rafael
10-09-2008, 2:55 PM
My foot.
A kick in his head or family jewels would put him down more than long enough to get the police here. I'm a live and let live person, but if you invade my space/property you have lost your options.
For anyone to get to my shop they would have to jump an 8 foot fence, and I'd hear them do it. It wouldn't be a surprise.

Brent Smith
10-09-2008, 3:04 PM
work . What would you grab in a moment's notice to defend yourself? .

In this order depending on what the intruder had in his hands:

My fists and feet
My Dog
A 6' length of 1" dowel rod
My Japanese marking knife
My gun.
Or any combination of the above. I actually had a fool walk in one time, my old dog got to him before I could.....people sure can run when they feel the need LOL.

John Keeton
10-09-2008, 4:01 PM
Cell phone, and dial 911.
By the way Rick, in KY we refer to 911 as "dial a prayer."

Eric Larsen
10-09-2008, 4:41 PM
I've thought about this as well, seeing as my shop is the closest thing to the road.

I *generally* leave my garage door cracked open about a foot. That's enough circulation, and I don't want to advertise to every rough carpenter in Las Vegas what kinds of goodies I have in the garage. (I live in a developing neighborhood. There are always a lot of contractors and laborers driving by my house. Many of them look shifty.)

I agree with John that there really is only one tool for this situation. But I really don't want to keep that kind of tool in my workshop.

Jim Shipman
10-09-2008, 4:49 PM
I live in rural southern Indiana where we have quit a few coyote, stray dogs, mean rabid badgers, marauding groundhogs and several other mean critters like rabbits, squirrels, deer, wild turkeys and possalopes. My shop is about 300 feet behind my house and I usually work after dark. I always have my Kimber .45 on my belt mainly for the coyotes.
I think someone with bad intentions would stop at the house before coming all the way out back.

Lori Kleinberg
10-09-2008, 4:51 PM
I agree with John. I keep a small pistol in my pocket. Easy access and dust free :D

allen levine
10-09-2008, 6:08 PM
Id show him some of my last builds, figuring hed take mercy and leave.
Maybe leave me a few bucks he has in his pockets and tell me here, I see your tablesaw, you need this more than me.


btw, its nice to be a new member here, alot of great reads.

Von Bickley
10-09-2008, 6:16 PM
I keep a rifle in the shop, a shotgun in the house, and a snubnose in my pocket.:D

John Keeton
10-09-2008, 6:39 PM
I keep a rifle in the shop, a shotgun in the house, and a snubnose in my pocket.:D
Von, you have warmed my heart!

Von Bickley
10-09-2008, 6:47 PM
In SC, we can legally carry with a "Concealed Weapon Permit (CWP)"...

Belinda Williamson
10-09-2008, 6:48 PM
I'm at my office right now. Last building at the end of a half mile dead end road. My 38 is on my desk, pointed at the door.

When I work alone in the shop (same location), day or night, the 38 is nestled in the small of my back. Sometimes my Beretta 380 takes it's place.

If I had to grab something in a pinch the most handy tool in the shop currently would be a surgical scalpel. That's a little too "hand to hand" for me since most intruders proably have a longer reach than I do since I stand 5'4". A hammer would probably be the second closest thing, followed by a router, then a air polisher.

Ben Rafael
10-09-2008, 7:13 PM
Interesting thread.
I live in the city, a few hundred yards from a gang neighborhood and I am not concerned about someone coming in to my shop.
Many of you who live in the country are concerned about someone coming in to your shop.

Ken Fitzgerald
10-09-2008, 7:19 PM
Folks...................


Please don't let this thread deteriorate any further into a gun ownership argument.

This thread is being closely monitored.

mark page
10-09-2008, 7:44 PM
According to LOML, the "pathway" through the shop is getting narrower and harder to navigate. If you ask her, it would take an intruder close to a 1/2 hour to reach me:D:D:D

Eric Larsen
10-09-2008, 11:21 PM
Agreed...

I've thought about it, and pretty-much dismissed the notion. I live in a "nice" section of Las Vegas. ("Nice" is a very relative term when discussing this heat-blasted hellhole.)

About five blocks west of my house, it's no longer "nice." We've got high school students shooting each other -- like once every two months. Then there's the usual assortment of graffiti taggers, car thieves, home invaders and "probably a mob hit" murderers. (To make matters worse, O.J. Simpson and Michael Jackson live here. Simpson is now a 30-to-life resident apparently.)

But I don't worry about people invading my house. Statistically, I think I'm in more danger from people who run red lights. I've got better things to worry about than psychotic chain-saw wielding maniacs. If "Jason" decides to bust into my garage, I think I'll grab for the fire extinguisher, and retreat by way of the alarm panel.




Interesting thread.
I live in the city, a few hundred yards from a gang neighborhood and I am not concerned about someone coming in to my shop.
Many of you who live in the country are concerned about someone coming in to your shop.

John Keeton
10-10-2008, 4:34 AM
I've got better things to worry about than psychotic chain-saw wielding maniacs. If "Jason" decides to bust into my garage, I think I'll grab for the fire extinguisher, and retreat by way of the alarm panel.
Eric and Ben, it seems that today's situation is different in one major aspect. In the past we have always had a criminal element, and economic conditions have always generated more theft related crime. Those people are risk takers, but they usually assess the situation. That makes them, to a degree, predictable.

But at no time in history have we had the drug related problems that we have today. People from all walks of life are involved, and when they are high, or need their next fix, they are "drug crazed", unpredictable, and extremely dangerous. I have worked in the legal system for over 35 years, and have never seen it this bad. Just consider all the children that are harmed, neglected, or abused as a result of drugs. Someone that would hurt a child would do anything - period! People in that condition do not "assess the risk." They do not respond to fear.

When an individual shows up at your door, strung out on crack or meth, and needs to steal something to get his or her next fix, they will stop at nothing.

So, it is no longer "Jason", or some deranged chainsaw killer. It is the 17 year old kid down the street that has become another crack statistic. They are in every neighborhood - some worse than others. But, don't be so foolish as to underestimate this situation. And, it worsens everyday.

Dennis Peacock
10-10-2008, 6:52 AM
Good thread so far and let's please keep it that way. Please? :)

Ben Rafael
10-10-2008, 7:26 AM
Eric's got it. I'm far more likely to be harmed by a drunk driver or bad driver than someone invading my property. A month doesn't pass without an auto accident ending up on the sidewalk somewhere in my neighborhood. And nearly all those accidents is a combination of someone speeding and someone running a stop sign.

Al Willits
10-10-2008, 11:57 AM
What I would do is scream loudly and the wife would shoot them with her SVI open class .38 super handgun...:)

Actually I have a fenced yard which helps, also a dog who at least would bark and sound mean, and carry permit, so instead of stabbing them and risk aids from the blood, I scream at them to get out or I'd defend myself..barring I had the chance, other wise if they caught me in a moment of concentration and I'd lose that battle. :D

.38 sp+p or .45 acp, both work for me.

John makes a good point, todays criminals are not the run when they hear you coming kind that used to break into your house, now they will attack with little regard for human life.

What someone else uses to defend them selfs may or may not work for you, but in todays crazy world, I think one should plan for the worse, giving them your money may not satisfy and personal attacks on you or your family may be next.

Al

Clifford Mescher
10-10-2008, 12:05 PM
How many times do poeple in the news say " I never thought that could happen to me"? Or they say, " I never thought this could happen in my neighborhood"? Many factors drive people to crime. The state of the economy is often cited in history, as a major factor in abhorrent human behavior. Clifford

allen levine
10-10-2008, 1:03 PM
im not sure why anyone would decide to go into a woodworking shop where it could be some big guy playing with saws, and decided to hold them up. Id sooner think the criminal would opt for a senior citizen leaving her apt to go do food shopping.

I think Id be more suprised if someone walked into my shop/garage and offered to pay me for a build. I think Id hit the floor faster than if someone fired a shot at me.

Ken Fitzgerald
10-10-2008, 1:31 PM
I think Id be more suprised if someone walked into my shop/garage and offered to pay me for a build. I think Id hit the floor faster than if someone fired a shot at me.

You too?:rolleyes:

John Keeton
10-10-2008, 2:05 PM
...someone speeding and someone running a stop sign.
Ben, apparently you all have the "5 car rule." In Lexington KY, there seems to be the unwritten - "light's red, but 5 more cars are OK rule". Amazes me that there aren't more T-bone crashes than actually happen.

Clifford Mescher
10-10-2008, 2:13 PM
im not sure why anyone would decide to go into a woodworking shop where it could be some big guy playing with saws, and decided to hold them up. Id sooner think the criminal would opt for a senior citizen leaving her apt to go do food shopping.

I think Id be more suprised if someone walked into my shop/garage and offered to pay me for a build. I think Id hit the floor faster than if someone fired a shot at me.
That's assuming the criminals are actually thinking:rolleyes: Clifford

Cliff Rohrabacher
10-10-2008, 2:26 PM
As far as a gun is concerned that would work nicely as well, but storing it in your woodworking apron, that is ridiculous.

And they make such a mess.

However a 22 would serve nicely. Triple tap (semi auto) to the lungs and you'll have time to place the next one carefully.

Dusty Fuller
10-10-2008, 3:38 PM
I think what the rural folks may be concerned about is that if someone finds your shop, it is perhaps more likely that they didn't just stumble upon it. That's just a guess though. I figure that the more people you have, the more that they walk around just looking at stuff, and you may get a few of those. I get a few wanderers, though most of them turn around and/or leave me alone when they see the truck with "law enforcement" decals and the blue lights (I live/work on a state park). I have night duty usually 3-4 nights a week, in which case I'm in uniform with all the gear (Glock 22, pepper spray, ASP baton). When I'm not on-duty, I'll have my Glock 27. Its just standard fare, not paranoia, because there's always a chance I'll need to respond to something even if I'm not on-duty. Then there's the chisels....

Karl Brogger
10-10-2008, 3:43 PM
I have to agree with John, this is what our second amendment rights are for.


I agree with John as well. But this is not why the Second Amendment exists. It is there so you can protect your self from the state. An armed citizenry can overthrow a tyranical and corrupt government. Being able to put 240g hollow points into some piece of crap who wants to take what is yours is just a benifit. :)

Rob Damon
10-10-2008, 4:43 PM
I would rather not use them. Especially if the intruder turns out to be a couple kids.

We live out in the county and there are no street lights and an unlit 20' alley way behind the shop that I am building. I know when I retire that I will be working out there pretty late.

Although the neighborhood we are in is 99% crime free, it is not to say it will stay that way. So to protect the shop when I am away, there is a security system and CCTV, so the police can be alerted and we have video. The second thing we are going to do is put up a folding metal gate just inside the overhead garage door and just inside the personnel door.

This provide two functions. One is when I am not at home, and someone breaks in, the alarm will go off when the main door gets opened, the police will be alerted and the intruder is now faced with getting through a heavy steel gate before getting my toys. He has to make a decision, can I get through this gate before the cops show up. (And there is a county sheriff six houses down from ours.) The second function will be when I am in the shop, I can arm the alarm system and secure the gates. If the alarm gets set off, I will still have the steel gates between me and him, so I will have plenty of time to get back into the storage room and wait for the intruder with my friend Mr. Colt until the Police arrive.

It's all about layering defenses.

When I leave at night I can check the CCTV screen to see if anyone is about and walk comfortably to the house with Mr. Colt in hand.



Rob

Andrew Derhammer
10-10-2008, 6:44 PM
Since i'd probably be at the lathe, grab the bowl gouge and throw it at him to stun him and then run to the wall for the pipe clamp and give 'em a good wack. It's been on my mind as there's been some break ins in surrounding neighborhoods.

John Keeton
10-10-2008, 7:24 PM
But this is not why the Second Amendment exists. It is there so you can protect your self from the state. An armed citizenry can overthrow a tyranical and corrupt government. Being able to put 240g hollow points into some piece of crap who wants to take what is yours is just a benifit. :)
Precisely correct! And, well stated Karl.

Ben Rafael
10-10-2008, 7:30 PM
Sounds like Rob is preparing to fight the 2nd battle of Yorktown.:)

Rob Damon
10-10-2008, 8:16 PM
I think the second battle of Yorktown happened last year when the county raised real estate taxes......:rolleyes:

Not to shift the subject, but on the lines of shop safety...

This forum requires real names and many folks add their real city,state. Many of these folks post real pictures of their real shops and their real (tools) toys and give pretty descriptive tours that shows windows and doors and potential entry points and such.

So I was going to post pics of my big shop in progress and my temp small shop and I got to thinking.

So the question I have is with this thought in mind, is it really a good idea in this day and age to be posting this kind of info on the web? Doesn't this give some of the creatures of night a sort of shopping list of oppurtunity?

How many of you have already posted shop tours and have had your shops broken into?

Just curious, I sure I am just being too paranoid.

Rob

Karl Brogger
10-10-2008, 10:59 PM
Precisely correct! And, well stated Karl.


Its borderline scary how few people actually know that little factoid, and even scarier yet at how willing people are to become subjects instead of a citizens. Which is what you become when the Gov't no longer has anything to keep them in check and are allowed to exploit you to the fullest extent.


Rob, your being paranoid. ;) I doubt, (I hope to not eat these words), that any meth/crack/heroin addict is shopping online for his next mark.

Rich Engelhardt
10-11-2008, 4:32 AM
Hello,
I'd just invite the miscreant to sit down a while and we'd have a little chat.
Me, on the shop stool - them on the router table...
Call it a little pre-prison-prep. :D


Its borderline scary how few people actually know that little factoid, and even scarier yet at how willing people are to become subjects instead of a citizens
Sad is how I view it, not scary.
People are people though I guess, and as such, they are going to keep repeating the same mistakes over and over.


So the question I have is with this thought in mind, is it really a good idea in this day and age to be posting this kind of info on the web? Doesn't this give some of the creatures of night a sort of shopping list of oppurtunity?
Excellent point.
I know in my case, I've posted a few times about what I have in the shop.
I doubt if many questions about the origin of tools are asked by buyers on CL or similar sales outlets.
The sterotype is that it's the crack heads/druggies, etc. that are behind it. All too often it turns out it's the kid down the street just looking for kicks &/or a thrilling You Tube video - or some thrill shots taken on the cell phone to impress his peers.

Burt Alcantara
10-11-2008, 12:16 PM
I have a 357 hidden in my shop. Since I'm in the basement I'd hear anyone entering the house and going down the stairs.

If I'm in the basement, they would have to get past my wife, who works at home. She taught me how to use firearms so I doubt they'd get very far.

Burt

Gary Herrmann
10-11-2008, 7:39 PM
I haven't consciously thought of this. Since my son was born, my guns are in a locked metal cabinet. I do intend to teach him how to safely use what I own. I also think about those bedframe mounted single pistol gun safes periodically.

My shop is in the basement. If I'm running power tools, I may not hear the person coming down the stairs. Lathe or handtools, I might.

However, consider how much you're concentrating when you're using a tool. Consider what that does to your awareness of your surroundings outside of your cut or whatever.

If someone enters the house, the dogs would let me know first, then my wife. I hope I'd have time to dial 911 while running to the cabinet.

If nobody is home and this person is in my basement, they're probably between me and the cabinet. If they're armed with a handgun, a gouge, hammer or anything else isn't going to do much other than get me shot, if the throw isn't perfect.

If the person is unarmed or has a knife, I'm hoping I would be working on some M&T joinery. I would then introduce them to one of my millwright chisels and a mallet.

Considering the way my mind works, this makes me wonder if I need to change the layout of my shop, or at least the distribution of some items.

Regardless, odds are I'm going to bleed in this situation. That said, I'm willing to do that for my family and my home. If we're fortunate, it won't come to that. But you never know until it happens.

Craig Kershaw
10-11-2008, 11:36 PM
Whenever I work in my garage(its a stretch calling it a shop) my 95 lbs german shepherd Ginger is always with me. She's real good at barking at anything that happens along. Usually its just deer in the backyard, but she's chased off a few questionable characters over the years. Of course if it gets more serious my Austrian friend Mr. Glock is loaded with hollow points that my
retired police buddy gave me.

Brian Peters
10-12-2008, 11:16 AM
I would avoid conflict these days. Depending on where you live you're more than likely going to get sued for a lot of money if you assault an intruder with your tools. Sounds crazy but it is the world we live in. But if I feared for my life or felt the intruder was that much of a threat I could think of plenty of tools that would keep him incapacitated until the cops came. :D I'm thinking a hammer in one hand pocket knife in the other would throw the intruder off. Statistically most thief's don't rob houses where they think conflict would be present. IE: if you're home he will just go onto the next house

But God help the guy that tries to steal my tools or anything in my house :cool: I have a big property. Lots of woods too.

John Keeton
10-12-2008, 1:31 PM
Depending on where you live you're more than likely going to get sued for a lot of money if you assault an intruder with your tools.
Brian, those lawsuits go so much smoother when there is only one version available about how it went down!! Many states have enacted "castle laws" to address your concerns.

Ben Rafael
10-12-2008, 1:42 PM
From what I've seen those lawsuits are often the family of the intruder suiing for wrongful death. Even if you win the suit you are out a small fortune defending yourself. Yet another argument for loser pays.
If anyone has anything of value to be sued over(large bank account, home...) you should consider getting an umbrella liability policy. They are not expensive, they provide coverage against things that are more likely to occur like a kid hurting himself climbing over your fence and suing you for his mistake. A $1million policy costs somewhere around $250 per year, more or less, depending on where you live.

Craig Nickles
10-12-2008, 2:39 PM
Did I ever mention I belong to the N.R.A.?

John Keeton
10-12-2008, 7:24 PM
Ben, the umbrella policy is an excellent idea, although it merely extends the coverage of underlying policies. Most homeowner policies would not insure against an intentional act.

Although it doesn't preclude suit or, for that matter, prosecution, "castle doctrine" statutes do help. Kentucky's castle doctrine reads as follows:
KRS 503.080 (partial)
(2) The use of deadly physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable under subsection (1) only when the defendant believes that the person against whom such force is used is:
(a) Attempting to dispossess him of his dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession; or
(b) Committing or attempting to commit a burglary, robbery, or other felony involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to KRS 503.055, of such dwelling; or
(c) Committing or attempting to commit arson of a dwelling or other building in his possession.
(3) A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

Of course, the obvious question would be - "is the detached shop considered a dwelling?" This law is only a couple of years old, and we have a couple of cases progressing through the system. I am not aware of any that involve that particular issue.

Ben Rafael
10-12-2008, 8:12 PM
I think #3 covers not being in a dwelling.

Karl Brogger
10-12-2008, 8:26 PM
I think #3 covers not being in a dwelling.
I agree.


On getting sued, nothing a bag of lime, a shovel, and a few hours of shoveling won't solve.

Dennis Peacock
10-12-2008, 8:39 PM
OK folks....this thread has ventured all over the map from the original OP's post. Either keep it on direct topic or this thread will come to a close.

Chuck Gregg
10-13-2008, 6:56 AM
I run a service truck and carry a chemical mace in gel form (sticks to them and they can't breathe) mainly for dogs but easy to clip on your belt or tool apron. It's easy to reach and if used by accident reversible, not so with a bullet!

John Keeton
10-13-2008, 8:15 AM
I agree with the mods on the path we have taken, but it has been an interesting trip!

If they will induldge one more diversion, I would like to address the comments on #3 of the castle doctrine. The statute has two sections, the first of which outlines those situations that justify the use of "physical force" (not in the quote) and the other the use of "deadly physical force." #3 pertains to both, but doesn't expand either. In other words, it speaks to the issue of whether retreat should be an option before the use of the "permitted" level of force. I doubt it resolves the issue posed regarding a detached shop. I still think resolution of that issue will rest in the definition of a "dwelling."

If I have disobeyed the warning, please delete this post. My apologies for any past diversions, and for this one.