Hope No One Else Was Taken by This Guy

[David Dustin]

There was a post a few weeks ago by a gentleman who claimed to have an unused seat of Photograv 3.0 for sale.

The original thread has been moved to an area where I can not access it.
The gentleman's name is Travis Russell Kirkpatrick

We communicated via PM (here) and I sent him a check (shame on me).
He was going to send the software out on 9-18-08 and said i would receive it in a few days. Today is 10-5-08 and no software or PM's.

From what I can gather he was an employee of Sign Warehouse. I called there to try to reach him and it turns out he is no longer with the company.

Wanting to believe the best in people, and hope nothing catastrophic has happened to him, I would hope he would contact me to advise as to the status of my software.

I was given an alternatvie email address by someone here which I have tried with no response.

Thanks for any thoughts or ideas here.
David

[Keith Outten]

David,

I might be able to help. I will send you a PM if I can locate any useful information.
.

[David Dustin]

Keith,
Thank you for your help.
I have the address he had be send the check too.

David

[David Dustin]

Well this is one of those times were hoping for the best paid off.

It turns out he was working out of town and had given it to a friend to ship. The friend misplaced the address and therefore no shipment.

David

[David Dustin]

There are some here that know Travis Kirkpatrick.

He replied to an email about 2 weeks ago saying he had givien the product to a friend of his to ship and the guy had lost my address. He asked for the correct address which I gave him.

He said it would go out right away and that he would send me tracking information. As of today... nothing.

I really hate being screwed around with so at this point I think it is fair to declare Mr. Kirkpatrick a dead beat.

Are there any legal ramifications for this type of activity?
We used the US postal service for the transaction and I believe it is a felony to defraud someone using the USPS right?

Can I call the local Sherrif in his area and issue a complaint (he lives in texas)?

Sorry to sound so angry, but I really hate trusting people and then having them let me down.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.
David

[Scott Shepherd]

If he's cashed the check or money order, then you are 100% in your rights to call in the Postal Inspector or any law enforcement. Best to take note, once you start the process going, I don't think you can unring the bell. I'd personally shoot him and email explaining he was about to face criminal charges, and give him 48 hours to get you the product (make him next day air it at his expense), and after that, all bets are off.

Also, I'd have no problem calling his local law enforcement officers and asking them for advice.

Best of luck.

[Kim Vellore]

David,
I had been in a similar situation before and filed a complain and action was taken too. If he used the sign warehouse email address you can contact sign warehouse or file a bbb complaint with them. BBB was faster than filing it as a usps fraud, I guess they have so many complaints every day. Here is a link for complain
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx
You might want to read this too
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus02.shtm

You can contact your bank too, they might help you.

Kim

[David Dustin]

Kim,
Thanks for the link.

He no longer works for Sign Warehouse as far as I can tell.

He also made no connection to SW in his posts or emails, so I want to make sure there no implication on my part that SW had or has anything to do with this. All he said was a client had returned it.
Now one could think that it was a client of SW that returned it, seeing as how he used to work for them, but I have no evidence of that.

Mr. Kirkpatrick owns this one..

David

[David Dustin]

I contacted the Denison Police department.
They can not take complaints over the phone but suggested I contact my local police department here in GA, file a complaint and they would fax it to the proper authorities.

I have emailed Mr. Kirkpatrick and informed him of my intentions to press charges should he not comply.

2 months is being overly patient I think.

David

[Mark Winlund]

I'd personally shoot him and email explaining he was about to face criminal charges....


If you shoot him, he probably wont respond to an email!

Mark

[David Dustin]

I'm sure that was a Freudian slip.

Nobody likes to get taken.
I have the cleared check with his DL and signiture printed out and ready for the authorities.

This being a small town and us owning 2 businesses here, give us a little pull, at least with the local dept.

David

EDIT: Certified Letter went out today

[M Toupin]

David,
I can understand your agitation with the situation, but your setting yourself up for even more aggravation trying to pursue this in the criminal arena. Yes, you can file criminal charges, but unless you're talking a LOT of money, I can pretty much assure you your local legal system is not going to spend the money to extradite this guy from TX to GA to face charges. Extraditions are expensive and the bottom line is it's not cost effective, except in the most egregious situations. Use the civil courts to go after a judgment, it's a lot less aggravation and more effective in recovering your losses.

Mike

[David Dustin]

Extradition was never my plan.

If my local police dept contact the Police in Denison, TX, the complaint will be filed there not in GA.

That is the way it was explained to me anyway.

There has to be some recourse for people that get taken, particularly when I have all the documentation (he signed the check, and his DL is on it).

Originally he wanted a money order and I explained I could get a check to him faster and it would help me keep my books straight.

I just don't understand why he can't just mail the software or return my check. There is just no excuse in the world that justifies 2 months of this.

There may be some other business I have in the Dallas area soon. Denison is just north of Dallas. Perhaps I should pay him a visit to discus this. Not in a violent manner (I am only an average person.. 6'3" 220 pounds), just look him in the eye and ask why he would do this to another human. It is not the amount of money, it's the principle.

David

[Randal Stevenson]

Originally he wanted a money order and I explained I could get a check to him faster and it would help me keep my books straight.


David

A postal money order would have got the postal inspectors involved pretty quickly. I sent one to a company that was selling on Ebay a few years back. The employee took it and cashed it, but hadn't entered it when he got fired/quit. I asked where my item was and they said they hadn't received payment. I filled out the form needed and sent another money order. When the postal inspector contacted them (with the info of the former employee from the money order), things quickly got resolved.

But that said, I would send him either a certified letter, return receipt, or a registered letter.

[Scott Shepherd]

I just don't understand why he can't just mail the *&^% software or return my check. There is just no excuse in the world that justifies 2 months of this.

1) Because he doesn't own it to sell.

2) Because he was selling stolen copies to begin with and is a bind over that.

[David Dustin]

But that said, I would send him either a certified letter, return receipt, or a registered letter.

I sent him a certified letter.

David

[David Dustin]

Mr. Kirkpatrick received my certified letter.

He sent me an email saying the package was at his parents house and they would send it out Monday.

I replied and asked why I should believe him this time?

He also said I should press charges if I wanted too.

The tone of his email was as if I had done something wrong, not him.

It has been over 2 months since he cashed my check. His excuse is that he was in the Houston area cleaning up after the storm.

That was the same excuse he gave 2 weeks ago when he said his friend would send it out right away and he would send tracking information. Nada, nothing...zippo...

I gave him till this coming Thursday 10/30/08 to have my package here or I take the packet I have prepared to the local police department.

David

[Scott Shepherd]

He doesn't have it. If he had it, he'd have shipped it by now.

Just my opinion.

[David Dustin]

Him:
"Like I said, The post office near the package is not open on saturday...It will be sent first thing monday morning"
Me:
"All you would have had to do was call or something.
You act as if I am the bad guy here.
I did everything I said I was going to do, when I said I was going to do it.
I accepted your apology last time when you said your room mate screwed up. But you did not follow through on your end.

You have to realize at least a little how frustrating this has been…"

Aren't all post Offices open on Saturday?

[M Toupin]

Extradition was never my plan.

If my local police dept contact the Police in Denison, TX, the complaint will be filed there not in GA.

That is the way it was explained to me anyway.

Short answer is yes, charges can be filed at either location...

But... and it's a big one... the accused has the right to confront his accuser in court. You're the accuser here. That means you have to go to court as the "victim" so the accused can "confront his accuser". No matter were the criminal charges are filed you will be going to court, if the charges are filed in TX, then you're making a road trip. If the charges are filed in GA then he has to be extradited to face charges.



There has to be some recourse for people that get taken, particularly when I have all the documentation

There is, it's called the civil system. File a civil charge in your local jurisdiction. It's then on the accused to appear and contest the charge. There's no requirement for the accused to be present to win a civil judgment. Much easier to prove and a lot less hassle and aggravation on your part.


It is not the amount of money, it's the principle.

I understand the principle thing and wanting him to "pay for it", but principles can get really expensive for you with little or no return in the legal arena.

Mike

[David Dustin]

What if I contact the postal authorities, considering he used the postal service to commit fraud?

Will/can they do anything about it?

I did not send the check via certified mail, there is just his response indicating he received it by mail.

He maintains an in your face attitude about it which *&##$# me off more than anything.

As far as a road trip....
I do need to go to Dallas somtime soon.

David

[Scott Challoner]

Don't mess with Texas!

W
:D

[David Dustin]

My Son-in-law has a T-shirt that says
"Don't mess with Texas, It's not fair to make fun of (insert another phrase for mentally challenged individuals).

ha

[Dan Hintz]

He also said I should press charges if I wanted too.
This statement alone tells me he could care less if you receive the package... which means you never will.

[David Dustin]

It is just part of his "attitude".
Some people have a defense mechanisum when they are confronted that causes them to demonize the one doing the confronting.

In our case, I have threatened to bring legal proceedings should he decide to delay this further.
His response is "see if I care", but the reality is he knows he is in the wrong and this is a show of false bravado.

In my humble opinion.

David

[Keith Outten]

David,

I checked his IP address that he used to register here. There are at least five people who also used the same IP address to register so i expect it was done on the job.

I might suggest that you file a complaint with the credit bureau, I bad mark on his credit rating will follow him forever and haunt him every time he tries to obtain any kind of loan. I don't know how this is done but it sure is worth checking into.
.

[David Dustin]

Keith,
Thanks for the info.

I am going to wait till this Thursday to see if he does what he says he'll do (for once).

Guess I am still just a sucker that wants to think the best.

David

[David Dustin]

He sent me an email saying his Parents shipped the package yesterday.

Hope so, and I hope it gets here in good shape.


David

[Dan Hintz]

David,

I hate to say it, but don't hold your breath... the longer you wait to press charges, the harder it is to show due diligence on your part.

[David Dustin]

Sure,
But if i press charges and the package actually arrives I have acted too soon. Premature action is as bad as none at all..

David

tell you what, I'll bet you a dollar it arrives OK?

[Kim Vellore]

David,
I would see it differently, you had to take extreme steps for him to mail the packages and you had to go through all the pain and frustration to get what is due to you. Now knowing that guy's character I am sure he will cheat the next person coming along his path. He just happened to mess with the wrong guy this time. I would be happy to see you file charges even after you received the package and he should cover all the costs that you encounter in trying to file charges (Though not practical. The law leans towards the bad guys most of the time, thanks to lawyers).

Kim

[David Dustin]

Ah yes.....

But I happen to believe in what goes around comes around, and if it doesn't, kick his $%#.

Seriously though, people that treat others this way WILL get much worse in return.

A few people have suggested that I must have done something really bad in a former life (if you are into the Karmic thing) because of the ill luck that seems to befall me. A good portion of it is self induced because I push things as far as they can be pushed. But the rest I really have to wonder. I do my absolute best to treat others the way I want to be treated and go to great lengths to be fair with all I deal with.

Nuff stuff from me............

[David Dustin]

Just curious what side of this ya'll are on...


Vote yes the package arrived:

Vote no the package did not arrive

News at 11:00

David

[Kim Vellore]

you will know on November 5th......

[David Dustin]

you will know on November 5th......

Now THAT'S funny....
Thanks for the laugh...:D

[Don Eddard]

Just curious what side of this ya'll are on...


Vote yes the package arrived:

Vote no the package did not arrive

News at 11:00

David
I'd say it's about 50-50 it'll arrive, and if it does, it's about 90-10 that it's a home-burned bootleg copy of the software that may or may not work. ;)

[Dan Hintz]

My vote is it never arrives... but if by some odd twist of fate it does, I'm with Don that it's a bootleg copy.

[Doug Griffith]

a home-burned bootleg copy of the software that may or may not work. ;)

That's probably whats taken so long. He had to find the software so he could copy it. He could have bought it and returned it in this amount of time.

[Margaret Turco]

I vote no. I include the tracking number when I tell somebody that something is on the way.

[Scott Erwin]

That's probably whats taken so long. He had to find the software so he could copy it. He could have bought it and returned it in this amount of time.


Doug has it figured out...the problem is....he had to check with his Probation Officer first to see if he could go to the computer store to "get" the software....(not saying anything bout buying it....)

I vote never arrives....
IF it did, would be boot-leg anyway...

[David Dustin]

So far it is unanimous it will not arrive.

I'll post the answer at about 9:00 PM EST so those that need their beauty sleep can rest easy.

(now of course I realize this is a humorus distraction, but it is entertaining)

[Jim Good]

I say it doesn't get to you today but you'll get it around Monday. If he says his parents are going to ship it, then he's a young lad and even though he tried to sound tough, I'm guessing he is scared you may act on your threat.

Two more minutes and you'll post us an answer! I'm anxiously awaiting your response!!!

Jim

[David Dustin]

There was no maybe about it, I would have acted on it.
they shipped it Certified Mail too...

All appears to be authentic. The manuals etc are all there.

The last thing is to make sure the Activation works (which I'll take care of here in a few minutes).
EDIT: I installed and activated the software successfully...

The CD is screen printed so it is hard to duplicate that look.

I really appreciate all the support ya'll gave me with this issue.

David

[Jim Hill]

David,

I'm glad everything worked out for you!

Jim

[Marc Myer]

Hey, if it's bootlegged, you can make a strategic phone call or email and help him discover a whole different kind of trouble!
Most companies don't have much of a sense of humor when it comes to pirated copies of their software...especially the kind people try to sell :)

[David Dustin]

The Authentication process requires going to the photograv website and getting the code.

That part is hard to fake.

David

[Dan Hintz]

I doubt many would take the time to have a CD screen printed for a fake copy (unless they were in China)... you got the real deal, and you were veeeery lucky.

[David Dustin]

Luck is something that rarely comes my way (well good luck anyway).

Am I determined... ha

I just really regret having to threaten to swing the "big stick".
There was another recent event with a manufacturer where I had to threaten (in fact it was in mid swing) to bring heavy preasure on them to address a problem. They finally did but only after "making loud noises" by having a web page prepared to distribute to the world showing a sequence of events and conversations. The "noise" finally got the attention of the right people and the situation was quickly addressed.

(these are rhetorical questions btw)
Why do we need to resort to these types of things?
Why don't people and companies just "do the right thing"?

Time for another cup of coffee (and some bran cereal for..... well you know).

David