Bench Progress

[Dave Anderson NH]

Well, the base and undercarriage of the bench is now done and temporarily assembled. Since the 2 bottom and the one top stretcher are able to be removed, I decided not to put in a shelf or a sliding board jack at this point. One of the great advantages of a knock down bench (other than it's easier to move) is that I can very easily add features later on if I decide I need them and it won't look like I cobbled together a fix. As you can see, the two wooden screws and their nuts arrived from Joe Comunale about 2 weeks earlier than expected. Outstanding service and they entirely live up to expectations.

I decided to go with ash for the top since it is almost half the price and it will match the vise screws. My foray to the lumberyard last Saturday to pick up the stock for the top was a non-starter. They had a poor selection of 8/4 rough and almost no 12/4. Fortunately I have the day off today and they promised to put out another skid pack of 1000 bdft by yesterday. In a couple of hours I'll go over there and root through the stacks and select my stock. Finally, I feel like I'm making progress.

[Michael Hammers]

Dave,
Niiiiiiiice...really like that base. What is the diameter on your screws? I think ash for the top will look great. I hope you are able to find some that is fairly clear. We did a job with some larger ash pieces and was constantly having to fill worm holes. Maybe it will be different in your neck of the woods though. I know one thing, it will be here for generations, thats some tough wood and your movement will probably be minimal. What are you thinking about for thickness?
Great work!
MSH

[John Dykes]

Will follow this thread closely... Trying to work with handtools on a contractor's saw is driving me nuts...

However, my dream of a bench is one closer step to reality. Saturday I went to Austin Hardwoods in Denver and picked up 84 bf of 8/4 ash (at $2.99 bf). I've just started to run the edges through the jointer. 8' long, very clear, very straight grain - and heavy as lead. I expect to have a top well over 7' long...

The Douglas Fir at HD is crap here in Denver. Finding ash for 3 bucks made me very happy (but I'm sure not in KY anymore!).

Dave, keep posting - I have the lumber, but I still have much to learn. I looked at Joe's products, but $300 for two wooden screws seems insanely high.

[Dave Anderson NH]

The screws are 2.0" diameter with a 2tpi thread. The hub is about 3.5" diameter. My minimum finished thickness for the top is 3", but depending on what is available and the yield out of the various board widths, it might go as high as 3.5" thickness. The design is with the top flush with the legs on the face vise side and there will be a 2" overhang on the opposite side to allow clamping at any point on that side.

[Dewey Torres]

Looking good so far Dave... keep it up!

[Randy Klein]

Dave,

I can see the dowels are for holding the top registration. How do you plan on securing the top? Are you going to lag screw through the center stretcher or just count on the weight of the top?

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for the update, Dave. That's going to be an outstanding bench setup. I really like the idea of going with the wooden screws, too. 'Hope the lumber yard is able to satisfy you this time around!

[Dave Anderson NH]

Since I had the day off yesterday to host and insure the continued economic success of our plumber, I got to go to the lumberyard. As promised, they had broken open a new skid pack (1000 bdft) of white ash. $266 later, my shop now has the materials for the top. To secure the top, the 2 dowels closest to the front legs will have matching round holes. The 2 back dowels will mate with oval slots to allow for any expansion or contraction of the top and to cover any screwups I make in measuring. I expect the top to weigh enough that I dont think lag screwing through the top stretcher is necessary.

By the way, I calculated the completed base as weighing 86-88 pounds.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Dave, what kind of price are you getting for Ash. I am planning to build a bench one day, hopefully soon, and I keep looking for a relatively "cheap" hardwood. The wood screws look awesome.

[Tom Godley]

Nice!

Thanks for taking the time to show it off

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Zahid. I hope you had a good Ramaden holiday.

Right now in my area under 100 bdft in 8/4 ash retails for $2.90bdft, but with my NH guild discount I paid $2.66bdft. I know that in KY and some other areas of the Appalachians it's a bit less. For comparison, the price for 8/4 hard maple was $5.40bdft, hnece my choice of the ash which is almost as stiff and hard. There's less than a 7% difference in modulus and the Janka hardness. Besides, it'll match the vise screws nicely.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Things are coming along nicely with the benchtop about 90% done. As you can see, 3 of the 4 sections are glued together as of about half an hour ago. The final section of 4 pieces is glued up and in about 4-5 hours (recommended clamp time for Titebond II Extend) I'll add the final section to the glueup. This thing is going to be one really heavy bench. Already the top is getting hard to muscle around.

[Johnny Kleso]

You just need some inlayed diamonds and you could play some shuffle board :)

[Jameel Abraham]

Oh my aching back! That top brings back some recent memories.

I cheaped out and went with ash for the top too. Given the longevity of a bench of this quality, in hindsight I would have sprung for hard maple. The ash is great in every way, but one. The open pores grab hold of any stray metal bit and hold them until you pick them out. Not a huge deal, and it actually promotes keeping a clean bench, but my previous bench which used ash for the base only, and maple for top never suffers from this problem.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Dave

Outstanding work!

I have a bench to build on my to-do list. Do you plan to build storage under the top? And why/not?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom Henderson2]

Hi Dave-

Wow -- sure looks nice.

What is your approach for flattening the top, and truing up the ends?

-Tom H.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Aching back is right Jameel. I was amazed at how sore I was last night after I had finished putting the last section in place. Of course some of that was due to the wailing away with large chisels, mallets, and gouges to prepare the inlet area for the Emmert K1 (18" wide) on the far side of the bench. I chose to do that before attaching the last section of the top so that it could be done on my old bench and the section could be rotated more easily. Pictures of that tonight.

Derek, I will be putting a shelf underneath. I was planning to do it later if I decided it was something I wanted, but now I've decided. The nice thing about a knockdown base is that it will be easy to add and it won't look like it was cobbled together.

Tom, I will cut off the ends and true them with a circular saw with final cleanup by handplane. I was going to make the bench 90" long, but I'm rethinking that right now. I think that I'll move the bench into the area where it will live and see how it fits before deciding. Right now the rough top is 98" long before cutting. Trueing up the top will be done with handplanes.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Dave

One shelf is a good plan.. two shelves are even better.

I like the idea of a shelf instead of a tool tray. You always need a place to put down a couple of tools. However, this is going to get a little dusty if you use dog holes and holddown holes. So I would add a shallow "shelf" under the top to catch the debris.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

I like the idea of a shelf instead of a tool tray. You always need a place to put down a couple of tools. However, this is going to get a little dusty if you use dog holes and holddown holes. So I would add a shallow "shelf" under the top to catch the debris.

True dat! I have the debris issue with my Adjust-A-Bench which currently only has one shelf.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Derek, my current bench has one shelf and you are right about dust, chips, and even the odd piece of hardware falling through the dog holes. Still, I think I'll stick with the single shelf since it's a lot lower down than the one on my current bench, and hence easier to vacuum or brush out. I am going to try (emphasis on try less guarantees) to keep less junk on the shelf than I do right now. Hopefully it'll be just a bench hook, dogs, holdfasts, and my planing stop. I never even considered a tool tray since they rob you of usable width, tend to collect dust-shavings-junk, and limit clamping options. I also feel that since I work between my tool wall and the bench, most of what I need is within an esay reach and it actually gets put away after use..... well, most of the time.

[Alan DuBoff]

Ditto on the aching back...looks excellent Dave. That is turning into a fine looking bench.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Finally some pix of the notched out area for the Emmert K1 patternmaker's vise and a shot of the laminated top at the final 24" width. The final untrimmed total length is 98", but that will change due to space constraints and will most likely be 90". The next steps are to mortise for the Emmert hinge assembly, trim the bench to final length, and true up the top though it is fairly close.

[Alan DuBoff]

I feel so puny, having only a 72" bench. :o

Nice looking bench, this is gonna be a beauty when it's done.

[Jeff Craven]

Dave,

I enjoy watching your progress. Nice work! btw, Are you left handed?

[Dave Anderson NH]

Not only am I left handed Jeff, but I am also gauche and sinister.:D I've used a right handed bench for my whole life and decided that it was about time to treat myself. Strangely enough, I expect to have some adjustment problems once it's done and will probably change some of the way I do things.

[Murphy Jim]

Hey Dave,

GREAT lookin' knockdown bench. How will the top be fastened to the base ?

TIA,

Jim

[Wallis Hampson]

This is alot of fun for me to watch your progress after just finishing mine. I took my share of Tylenol just a few weeks ago myself. When I read about the aching this and aching that, it just makes me smile.:o Please keep the thread going and continued good luck.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I was hoping to get a big chunk done on the bench last weekend, but I was laid low with the flu/cold combo to the point I never even bothered to go down to the shop.

I was able to make up for it this weekend as you can see in the pictures below. The bench got trimmed to its final 90" length and ended up 24 1/8" wide. The final fit was done on the Emmert K1 patternmakers vise, and I made the vise chop for the face vise, drilled it, and got it mounted. I also did decide to add a sliding board jack so it's in place too for those really long boards which need to be supported.

There is still a lot to do. The top needs to be trued up though it is already pretty close. I have to locate and drill the holes for the round dogs, and the boards for the bottom shelf need to be cut and installed. The twin screw face vise still needs its support slats sized and installed and it could use a slight bit of tuning. After all that is done it needs a couple of coats of finish on the top and sides. I did decide to fasten the top to each leg assembly with one lag bolt since the 86 pounds of the Emmert is cantilevered out so far. The face vise end of the top can be lifted too easily as it stands now. I am guessing the final weight of the bench to be 300 poundss after the shelf is installed.

[Dewey Torres]

Dave,
Brave move with the pattern makers vise mount.

Am I the only one who cringed when I at first, saw the cut out of that beautiful bench-top? WOW!

Great JOB!!!!:)

[Greg Cole]

I'm too busy oogling the wood stove and wood walls in Dave's shop. Seriously? Comfy looking shop Dave. Being a New Englander myself, there's nothing like wood heat.
Oh yeah, nice bench once again Dave.

[Johnny Kleso]

The vise makes the bench look tiny hehehe

You might need to add some sand bags to the other end to keep it down :)

[Jim Becker]

Wow, that looks great, Dave!

Question...any issues with that major overhang from a balance standpoint, or is the base heavy enough to insure stability if you have something, um...stout...on that end of the bench?

[Alan DuBoff]

Bravo!

Xlnt work Dave, it looks fabulous.

[Johnny Kleso]

I was just kidding about the sand bags :)

But know I wonder if you can press on the vise end and lift the legs up at the other end ???

[Kevin Adams]

Dave--

How did you atttach the nuts for the twin screw? Did you just glue them on or go with lag bolts?

Looks really nice!

Thanks.
Kevin

[Dave Anderson NH]

A few answers for folks.

Dewey, I was very very careful when making the cutout for the Emmert. I took it slow and easy because it offered plenty of opportunity for error.

Jim and Johnny, There is a definite bias of the weight toward the end with the Emmert vise to the extent that it is possible with sort of a medium effort to lift the far end of the top off of the base. To ensure against potential problems, I am going to put one lag bolt through each of the leg sets upper stretchers. Since the top is designed to float free on the side away from the twin screw vise, the bolts will be fairly close to that side which should allow for any expansion or contraction.

Kevin, I bolted the 2 vise screw nuts into place. No Glue. I didn't want to take the chance of having to make an adjustment and finding out it was too late. The bolts give a little margin to make that adjustment, glue is pretty much permanent. If you look carefully at the pix of the top, you can see where the bolt holes are plugged.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Well folks the bench is finally done and it has finish on everything. The finish is my homebrew finish of about 50% boiled linseed oil, 25% Waterlox original finish, and 25% mineral spirits. The visible surfaces of the top are then given a coat of Butcher's paste wax to impart a slight bit of sheen. The shelf is 1/2" thick white pine which was formerly a pass through shelf 3/4" thick between our kitchen and dining room. It is in a 3/4" deep rabbet which gives the shelf a 1/4" lip all around for safety and the boards are just butted up against each other and are easily removable.

I went easy on the dog holes using only 2 rows of 3 holes opposite the Emmert vise. Along the length of the bench the holes are space on 10" center with one gap of 20". I did not go the full length of the bench with the holes since I don't expect to need them. If I change my mind they can always be added later. The first couple of holes were drilled with a small brace and bit. I quickly changed to my largest swing brace and used a Russell Jennings bit after struggling to turn the smaller brace. I was pleased with how quickly the drilling went. I added a small turned peg to the side of the left front leg so I could hang my Lie-Nielsen dust brush and keep it handy. The original handle for the Emmerty was in ratty shape so I sawed it off and turned a new one.

The full bench width planing stop is a replica of the one used for 20 years on my old bench and the only change was to use round pegs instead of the square ones like on the old bench. The old one served me extremely well and I saw no need for any changes. It is 1/32" less than a full 1/2" in thickness so it will work for most stock. When I've needed to plane 3/8" or 1/4" thick stock I just add a small cutoff of 1/8" or 1/4" Masonite on the bench and the stock on top of that. It works like a charm.

Before you ask, the items on the shelf are the tilting jaw for the Emmert, a bench hook, an old kitchen cutting board used for chopping into, and a lidded plastic container filled with white powdered chalk for filling the scribed lines on dark colored woods.

At this point in time my old bench will be lowered a couple of more inches and converted into an assembly table. With the bench finished, I can now get back to making some furniture if I can find the time.

[Denis Tranchemontagne]

That looks awesome. Thanks for sharing

[Johnny Kleso]

The way you fit the Emmet vise into the top really adds to the looks of the bench..

[Steve Clardy]

Awesome bench Dave.

How did I miss this thread? :confused:


:D:D:D

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Dave

Other that being back-to-front (the vises at the wrong ends :) ), that is a magnificent bench. A simple design- no frills - executed very well. It looks like it will last a 100 years. And - oh oh! - that vise!!

The one add-on I would still consider is an adjustable (sliding up-and-down) bench stop at the very end of the bench. I find mine invaluable. But I guess this type of thing is a personal preference - how one is used to working.

I like the open shelf (although I say it will get dusty without another above it). It is the perfect place for a bench hook, shooting board, and other bench accessories.

The shop is really filing out. I had a close look at your saw till when I built mine recently (indeed, yours has been the inspiration for building my own). I think that it is time that you gave us a guided tour around your workshop. What say we all, should Dave do this?!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Becker]

Wow...that is just wonderful, Dave. I really hope that one of these days I can get up there to see that one in person! Wow. Nice!

[Dave Anderson NH]

Jim, you are welcome any time you get up this way as are any other Creekers.

Derek, the planing stop which is on the bench fits into any of the pairs of dog holes and for long pieces would be used down by the far end of the bench. I've used this style stolen from Sam Allen's bench book for 20 years without problems. Even for narrow stuff it works well when used at the edge of the bench because it is held in place by 2 dogs mortised into it which are 18" apart and hence very stable. The only thing I haven't added is the Frank Klause style flip up stop on the bench's endgrain used to hold a workpiece for sawing. I removed the one form the old bench but decided it isn't suitable for the new bench. The East Indian Rosewood was just a bit too garrish.:D As for the shop tour, it's been on my mind, but not until the rearranging and other work is completed.

[Jameel Abraham]

I can hear you breathing a sigh of relief Dave! I have respect for anyone who tackles a big bench project instead of buying. And the rewards that come with such an accomplishment have lasting value. Let us know how you like it down the road.

[Joe Vincent]

Wow, what a tremendous bench. And that shop looks so cool.

[Dewey Torres]

She is a beauty Dave. I bet your glad to be finished finally.

[Louis Bois]

Superb job on the bench Dave!! I'm betting you crack a smile every time you walk up to it...and pause a few minutes before the work begins. :)

I remember the satisfaction I derived from using my bench those first few times (though mine took a few years to complete)...and I have to say, that feeling hasn't diminished over time.

May this bench serve you (and its multi-generational inheritors) well...

...but where's the wine glass?!?:D

Cheers!

Louis

[Alan DuBoff]

Dave,

I have to piggy-back on your recent thread, as you added a Pattern Maker's vise to it. I'll link the pic in here for clarity:

Dave's bench:
http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=101010&d=1226697638

I'm using your bench as an example as I am kinda curious in how you find yourself working the vise? It seems more natural to me to be facing the end of the vise, when I use my hand to adjust it.

BTW, this is such a fascinating vise when you look at how the entire thing works. The skew mechanism that pivots the jaw and how it accomplishes that, it's very clever. Each side of the cylinder allow adjustment in opposite direction to keep the direction of force from the jaw...the way the jaws rotate 360 degrees, and 90 degrees off the other axis...it is a fascinating mechanism that was designed before electricity for the most part, it would seem...fascinating!

Studley used hand wheels on his bench (http://books.google.com/books?id=pks1lGO6zvYC&pg=PA167&lpg=PA167&dq=studley+workbench&source=bl&ots=Wyuf8zt4uq&sig=S7Z9zh8bxDv7p4AFTgzDuQJ1sYo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result). I notice that he also has the vises setup on the corners to use them off the end, at least for a right handled person. I think this makes sense to how people naturally work, and at least find myself doing similar.

I was going to experiment with a 10" cast iron hand wheel, but it is so heavy that I ordered the proper size in alluminum alloy. I could also spin one also, if I had a piece of aluminum...but 6" works to set just below the top, I want to avoid having the hand wheel above the top surface.

So, in addition to how you find yourself working with the vise, having a hand wheel on it is pretty whacked, I admit that...but I think it will actually work out pretty good in practice. Was curious what you think about that idea?

I'll know after I get the hand wheel and can adapt it...:rolleyes:

I must add Dave, you have such a nice work space. I have been procrastinating getting my tools hung on the walls, I'm taking some time off work this next week and with the holidays and will spend some time getting some shelves and tools hung (chisels, measuring tools, saws, etc...). You have a very nice work space...I am humbled...:cool:

[Bruce Page]

Wow! Very nice!!!!

[Dave Anderson NH]

Hi Alan, Maybe I'm being dense this morning, but I'm not sure I understand what you are asking me. Maybe the following will explain. If not, feel free to put it in idiot terms for me.

As you might have guessed from the positioning of both vises on the bench, I'm left handed. For the Emmert vise I face the vise square on and open or close the jaws with which ever hand is available or most convenient at the time. Both the lever for loosening and tightening the rotating ring and the one for raising or lowering the vise jaws parallel to the bench top are on the left hand side. When using either of these levers the left hand controls the lever and the right hand positions the vise jaws. In my case, I most often use the vise for shaping small pieces like the uprights of my bowsaws. This means that the vise either gets used rotated 90 degrees from the position in the photo, or most often with the jaws rotated 180 degrees so that the narrow anvil like jaws are facing up.

I think the best thing to do is for me to try and take some pictures later today and post them in either this thread or a new one.

[Alan DuBoff]

Hi Alan, Maybe I'm being dense this morning, but I'm not sure I understand what you are asking me. Maybe the following will explain. If not, feel free to put it in idiot terms for me.
That might be part of the problem, I might have explained it in idiot terms the first time...:rolleyes:

As you might have guessed from the positioning of both vises on the bench, I'm left handed.
Yes, that much I could figure out, other than your work space is so nice...:cool:

For the Emmert vise I face the vise square on and open or close the jaws with which ever hand is available or most convenient at the time.
I think that answers my question, as I was curious if you do face it square or from the side. I find it is much easier to position when I'm to the side, so as an example my vise is on the end and if I stand in front, I'm already positioned on the side and that feels natural to me when I'm positioning the vise. That is how Maloof works his, off the corner in the front.

Both the lever for loosening and tightening the rotating ring and the one for raising or lowering the vise jaws parallel to the bench top are on the left hand side. When using either of these levers the left hand controls the lever and the right hand positions the vise jaws.
This is why I like to stand at the side (i.e., the front of my bench in this case), since both controls are in front of me, and the vise screw is naturally at my right side, for my strong side. All of the handles for adjustment are within comfortable reach, and I can easily position the vise in all directions with handles and to lift the vise to position it while I tighten the pivot handles.

In my case, I most often use the vise for shaping small pieces like the uprights of my bowsaws. This means that the vise either gets used rotated 90 degrees from the position in the photo, or most often with the jaws rotated 180 degrees so that the narrow anvil like jaws are facing up.
I find myself using all sides/corners of the vise. For saw handles I use the ends of the jaws most I think.

What do you think about the hand wheel? Seems to me that if your working the vise from the front, square on, a hand wheel would be advantageous to that setup also.