Cordless Drill/Driver

[Larry Browning]

Well, the second battery on my Ridgid 12V drill went kaput, so I am going to need to spend some money. But what should I spend it on? I could get the batteries rebuilt for about $75 at Primecell, buy some new batteries at HD for about $90-$100
or get a new drill.
At this point I am leaning toward the new Lithium-ion drill and getting an impact driver in the deal as well. http://www.amazon.com/Makita-LCT300W-Compact-Lithium-Ion-Cordless/dp/B000V2BRM2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1222697775&sr=8-3 I am not all that thrilled with my current drill anyway and this looks like a step up to me, which could give me several years of service.

This looked like the clear choice... until I read this (http://www.primecell.com/qli-Ion.htm) at the primecell site.

This article makes it sound like I would be an idiot to get a lithium-ion powered tool. Is this information still valid? Is there another place to find contrasting info about Li-ion batteries?

[J. Z. Guest]

Larry, I'd jump on that deal.

I'm into the Ryobi 18 V system, which includes both NiCd and lithium packs and lots of different tools. I went with Ryobi because they have other neat things besides the typical cordless tools. (such as shop vacs, jigsaws, circ saws, recip saws, sanders, fans, staplers, etc.)

I did consider the Makitas though; they were more ergonomic, and the magazine test results showed them having a bit more power for their size.

When you're used to NiCd, it is an absolute revelation when you can leave a lithium tool on the shelf for a few weeks and have it still be at full charge when you come back to it.

Another revelation to me was how useful impact drivers are. I bought 1/4" and 3/8" socket adapters for mine, and I use it for some woodworking but also a lot of mechanical and more general carpentry-type uses. They will break loose lug nuts on cars, axle nuts on motorcycles, drive lag screws, you name it. One thing that really surprised me was how good they are at the finnicky little brass screws that our plans sometimes call for. Since the torque comes in little bits instead of all at once, Phillips fastners don't get stripped, even brass ones! There is no clutch to control the torque, one just backs off on the trigger until the impacts are coming slowly enough for one to control them.

Makita also has the 15 minute charge time. I didn't need this, but it is neat nevertheless. They fan-cool the battery with a fan in the charger as it is charging.

The only thing to watch out for with the impact driver is cheap Home Depot wood screws. They are made of a softer (Chinese) steel these days, and with an impact driver, it is easy to twist off the heads even without too much torque.

I don't really like the nylon tool bags they're going with these days instead of the nice molded plastic cases, but I guess that is all about cost-cutting.

[Bill White]

for our guys who assy. the cabs in our shop.
They are very pleased with them.
Bill

[Joe Vincent]

I have the Makita LCT200W (same as the 300W but without the flashlight). No comments on batter life as I've not had mine for very long. But I do like the kit overall. I echo the comments of Jeremy.

For the way I use my drill and impact driver, it's a substantial benefit that my lithium ion batteries hold a charge for long periods in between use of the tools. I liked my Makita NiMH drill, but it was often dead when I needed it and I didn't feel like charging it to drill just a few holes at a time. And when I do need to charge my lithium ions, the ones in the LCT200W and 300W kits really do only take 15 minutes to charge. Very nice.

Having an impact driver is really handy.

I've read not to store lithium ion batteries in the cold, so I plan to keep mine inside my house when I'm not out in the garage using it.

[Larry Browning]

But, did you read that article on the primecell site? That is what I am concerned about.
It looks like rebuilding one of those Lithium-ion batteries is not going to be possible, so when they wear out the only option is to get a new one. I am thinking that this fact is a threat to their business, so they are finding a bunch a negative things to say about Li-on batteries. I was looking for other reports that might not share such a negative opinion of these batteries, or one that supports this one.
BTW it looks like it will be a month or 2 before the budget allows me this purchase, so I thought I would research it it a bit more while waiting for the funds. I know that they have a rebate that gets you a third battery if I buy by Sept 30 (That tomorrow!) But the boss says no credit purchases for toys! End of discussion:eek:

[Bob Ross]

Larry,

By the time you have to deal with failed lion batteries we may be able to pull power out of the air. If Primecells opinions on lion batteries is intended to be self-serving, I'd have to say it works :D.

I have the Ridgid 24v. lion system and will use it till it dies. I've had it for a little over a yr. and I already think I've gotten my money's worth.

[Jim Becker]

You may be able to rebuild your own for less money than the Primecell cost. Contact Jason Able via PM to get details.

[Stan Smith]

I've had a Panasonic 15.6V for many years now and like it so well that I had the old batteries rebuilt. That wasn't cheap though. Still I wanted an impact driver and ended up with a craftsman 18V driver and drill package. It's fine for the occaisional use that I give it. I really didn't want the drill but it was cheaper to get the package than get the impact driver with an extra battery and charger. I also have a battery powered sawzall and Bosch circ saw.

I can't argue with the convenience of battery powered tools. It's really nice not have to hassle with cords and I also have a B&D battery mower and weedeater. All that being said, I still have a few corded drills that I use in the shop more often than the battery powered ones. Those drills are always ready to go including my 1/2" Makita that will twist your arm sockets off if you're not careful.

I did see a recent pgm about battery powered cars and the Japanese have developed one that beat a 911 Porsche in going from 0 to 75 by 3 seconds. It uses lithium ion batteries which they said are still under development. The cost of those batteries is over $20,000 FWIW.

[Joe Jensen]

But, did you read that article on the primecell site? That is what I am concerned about.
It looks like rebuilding one of those Lithium-ion batteries is not going to be possible, so when they wear out the only option is to get a new one. I am thinking that this fact is a threat to their business, so they are finding a bunch a negative things to say about Li-on batteries. I was looking for other reports that might not share such a negative opinion of these batteries, or one that supports this one.
BTW it looks like it will be a month or 2 before the budget allows me this purchase, so I thought I would research it it a bit more while waiting for the funds. I know that they have a rebate that gets you a third battery if I buy by Sept 30 (That tomorrow!) But the boss says no credit purchases for toys! End of discussion:eek:

I wouldn't drive the decision on a $15 cost difference between rebuilding and replacing batteries ($90-75). The Lion are SOOO much smaller and lighter for the same job...joe

[Eduard Nemirovsky]

my .02 cent - before buying please check how many ampers this particular battery has. I do have Makita with Li-Ion 18V, 3-Ah and it is work well.

[Larry Browning]

You may be able to rebuild your own for less money than the Primecell cost. Contact Jason Able via PM to get details.

Shhhh! Don't let the boss hear this:rolleyes:

[Nancy Laird]

Larry, take a look at the Bosch PS40-2 impact driver. We have two, and they are our go-to tools! At 2.2 lbs., it's the lightest in the field.

[Larry Browning]

my .02 cent - before buying please check how many ampers this particular battery has. I do have Makita with Li-Ion 18V, 3-Ah and it is work well.

These have the 1.5Ah battery, but it is my understanding that even the 1.5Ah can last pretty much all day. Couple that with the 15min recharge time and it seems to me that the extra money spent on the 3Ah would be wasted in my situation. Plus, I think the 3Ah battery is heavier, which is a pretty big negative for me as well.

[Mikail Khan]

These have the 1.5Ah battery, but it is my understanding that even the 1.5Ah can last pretty much all day. Couple that with the 15min recharge time and it seems to me that the extra money spent on the 3Ah would be wasted in my situation. Plus, I think the 3Ah battery is heavier, which is a pretty big negative for me as well.

All true. I have used both the 1.5 and 3.0 Ah batteries.

The 3pc kit is a good deal. Li-ion is definitely the way to go. Go for it.

MK

[Rick Potter]

I thought Rigid tools had a lifetime guarantee, including batteries. Did you buy yours before this came out?

Rick Potter

[John Sanford]

One other consideration, if you like your current Rigid tool, is to simply replace it with a new Rigid lithium tool, complete with free lifetime battery replacement.

[Doug Shepard]

I've had a Panasonic 15.6V for many years now and like it so well that I had the old batteries rebuilt....


Best cordless drill I've ever had. The original batteries on mine are still alive and kicking tho. If I need something with any more power I just grab the CMan corded drill.

[Larry Browning]

I thought Rigid tools had a lifetime guarantee, including batteries. Did you buy yours before this came out?

Rick Potter

Don't get me started on this with Ridgid! It seems that Ridigid and I have a different idea as to what the word "Lifetime" means. I was thinking they were talking about MY lifetime, they seem to think it means the tool's lifetime, which, according to them, is only about 3 years. Also, those receipts printed on thermal paper seem to have disappearing ink on them. The receipt I diligently saved for just this purpose now looks like a blank piece of paper tape.

[Jason Perrott]

Larry,

I must agree about the makitas being good, I have used the 18v lion set for almost the last two years professionally, without incident. I did purchase two extra batteries to have three tools running while 1 charges (zero down time). I am thinking of adding these to the quiver:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B001DNMUZG/ref=ord_cart_shr?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

Been looking at the Bosch like this, but this is basically two tools for one.
Just thought you might consider these in you research.

Jason

[Jerry Booher]

I looked at the Makita, but wanted a high-speed drill for wood and a slow-speed drill for screws. Cost was a minor consideration. I could not find one anywhere so I bought a low-cost Ridgid corded drill for drilling wood and a 12v Ridgid cordless with 2 batteries for screwing. The lifetime warranty made my decision.

WHAT IS COVERED UNDER THE LIFETIME SERVICE AGREEMENT:
The Lifetime Service Agreement on RIDGID® Hand Held Power Tools, Stationary Power Tools and Pneumatic Tools covers all worn parts in properly maintained tools, including normal wear items such as brushes, chucks, motors, switches, gears and even cordless batteries in your qualifying RIDGID®Brand hand held and stationary power tools; and replacement rings, driver blades and bumpers on RIDGID® Brand pneumatic tools for the lifetime of the original owner.

Unfortunately, it looks like when I die, taking my tools with me means they will no longer be warranteed.:rolleyes:

Jerry

[Greg Hines, MD]

Don't get me started on this with Ridgid! It seems that Ridigid and I have a different idea as to what the word "Lifetime" means. I was thinking they were talking about MY lifetime, they seem to think it means the tool's lifetime, which, according to them, is only about 3 years. Also, those receipts printed on thermal paper seem to have disappearing ink on them. The receipt I diligently saved for just this purpose now looks like a blank piece of paper tape.


That has been a problem with the heat-activated paper since they were introduced. Whenever I buy something (DVD player, TV, tools, etc.) I always make a copy on my computer printer of it, for just that problem. I have a set of used Bose speakers I bought on clearance, and they carry the 10 year warranty, so I am using them as much as possible, so that if they are going to wear out, it will be in the warranty period.

Though I too thought that a "Lifetime" warranty was just that. Good to know that before I buy a bunch of new tools.

Doc

[John Thompson]

I just purchased the Makita 10.8 V combo palm drill-impact drive kit at HD for $179 as an introductory price. I have not let the impact driver leave my hand in about a week. The Lithium says charged much longer and is extremely light as both drills weight about 2 lbs. I was looking at the small palm Bosch at around $124 until Makita released this drill-impact driver set.

I love the Lithium and it's the best $179 I have spent in years. I got $25 off by signing up for a HD credit card which doesn't have the Home Depot on front and is not orange. Just a regular CC they now offer in conjunction with a CC company at a lower %. So.. the set cost me $154.

I am not really concerned about the article link after having a few standard battery tools. I love the Lithium.

Sarge..

[Mark Rios]

I did see a recent pgm about battery powered cars and the Japanese have developed one that beat a 911 Porsche in going from 0 to 75 by 3 seconds. It uses lithium ion batteries which they said are still under development. The cost of those batteries is over $20,000 FWIW.



Stan, which cordless drill/drivers do the $20k batteries fit?

[John Morrison60]

I have the Makita LI-on set. The drill is the lightest I could find with a standard chuck, and the driver is even smaller with the hex driver chuck. They both are amazing tools. The LION seems to provide power indefinately. and then charges in 15 minutes. I love using the impact driver for putting in screws. (it is noisy though)
I looked at almost everything before settling on these. My selection criteria was weighted toward LI-On and weight of tool.
I also like my Bosch mini drill/driver with hex chuck.

Good Luck.
John

[J. Z. Guest]

Larry, I wouldn't worry much about the cost of re-building battery packs. I think those days are numbered. Li-Ion packs have circuitry in them to protect from shorts & fires. You'll likely need to buy new ones in the even the Li-Ions die.

On the other hand, I've found that I only charge my Li-Ion packs about 1/5 as often, since I only charge them when I run them down, instead of charging them every time I need them because they go dead on the shelf. They should last a good long time. ;)

Take a look at the Ryobi One+ system next time you're in Home Depot. They had a kit with the drill, charger, 2 batts. and flashlight for $180 when I got mine, and I think they're less than that now. I added the impact driver ($70) and still came out under what Makitas cost at the time. I've been very happy with the quality.

The Ryobi is 2.4 Ah and has the longest running time in this class. As you mentioned, it takes a lot to wear it down and charging time isn't really an issue. (even when it takes an hour)

[Larry Browning]

WHAT IS COVERED UNDER THE LIFETIME SERVICE AGREEMENT:
The Lifetime Service Agreement on RIDGID® Hand Held Power Tools, Stationary Power Tools and Pneumatic Tools covers all worn parts in properly maintained tools, including normal wear items such as brushes, chucks, motors, switches, gears and even cordless batteries in your qualifying RIDGID®Brand hand held and stationary power tools; and replacement rings, driver blades and bumpers on RIDGID® Brand pneumatic tools for the lifetime of the original owner.

Unfortunately, it looks like when I die, taking my tools with me means they will no longer be warranteed.:rolleyes:
Jerry

Jerry,
This is NOT the way it used to be. About 6mos ago when I tried to get a new battery for the one that had died, I was was told by the "Customer Service":cool: rep, that lifetime meant the life of the tool, which was 3 years, so apparently I did not need the blank sales receipt anyway because my tool had exceeded it lifetime. So maybe, my rantings has caused a change to their dictionary. (yeah, right!)
Plus, what is this thing called "Lifetime Service Agreement" what happened to the warranty? Do you have to pay extra for this?

After my experience with Ridgid I guess I am VERY skeptical of these manufacturer warranties that they publish. I thought the same as you when I bought the cordless drill. Please let us know what your experience is with them when you try to use that "Lifetime Service Agreement".

[J. Z. Guest]

Larry, my brother (also Larry) had a bad experience with Ridgid CS. He had a new 12 V NiCd drill with clutch problems. He had only owned it for a month or two, and had hardly used it.

He sent it in, but he had to pay $30 "until they determined whose fault it was." Needless to say, they determined it was not their fault. The fixed the drill, and returned it to him with stripped screw holes in the cases, so there is now a permanent gap where the case halves come together.

That was his first & last Ridgid tool. Despite that, I bought a Ridgid table saw & jointer, and have been very happy with them.

This corporate "Me first and everyone else later" mentality is killing us.

[Bruce Wrenn]

You can't beat the set of TWO, 12V LI drills from Ridgid. But you MUST fill out the paperwork for the lifetime service agreement. When mailing, get a certificate of mailing ($1.10). This is proof that you mailed it in in time. I bought the single drill with two batteries last winter, and recently bought the two pack (two drills, two batteries, and one charger) for $129, which is the same as I paid for the single drill, with two batteries. I really like these little drills.

[Christopher Fletcher]

Larry, take a look at the Bosch PS40-2 impact driver. We have two, and they are our go-to tools! At 2.2 lbs., it's the lightest in the field.
I have to agree. I have all three of the Bosch PS drivers and they are great. Their small driver is stashed in the top drawer of my lathe bench for attaching and removing faceplates. And, I love the angle driver for inside of cabinets and cupboards. But, the impact driver is a jack of all trades. I broke loose my axle nuts on a brake job the other day with that tool. Before that I was driving 4" long decking screws into a redwood planter I built in the spring.

All of my cordless tools are lithium ion's made by bosch.

[Randal Stevenson]

Ridgid's Lifetime service agreement covers ONLY the batteries that came with the tool, then you must be fortunate enough to find a decent service center that is on their list, and not just going to see if the battery takes a charge (doesn't hold it).

There was a big write up on another board, and they NEVER responded to me about can I get the lifetime service agreement on extra batteries (my tool came with one).
When you sign up for it (and are accepted), you get a number that you need for it. It is a pain.


That said, I looked at several when I bought mine. I had four choices, Makita, Ryobi, Bosch and Panasonic. I like aspects of the Ryobi, but tend to use them harder then that is designed for. Finding batteries for the Bosch and only knowing two people who had them (same model, so I didn't get much of a feel), killed that. It came down to between the Makita Li and the Panasonic, NiMH. I went with the Panasonic 15.6 with the 3.5ahr batteries and love it. I would have no problem with the Makita's but if I really need 18v or more, I prefer to grab a corded drill.

Now I have and use also, the Bosch PS40, and am still one of the 10,000 or so, awaiting their ps20. I would HAPPILY take their new PS30 (ps20 with a chuck), as it makes a great portable drill.

To my knowledge, Ridgid ONLY has the lifetime warranty on their shop vacs (current) and had the lifetime warranty on their old all grey tools. They changed to the lifetime service agreement (with hoops) after that.

[Eric DeSilva]

I would HAPPILY take their new PS30 (ps20 with a chuck), as it makes a great portable drill.

Aw man, I think you just cost me more money. I didn't know they had a PS w/a chuck... I've got a PS40, two PS20s (one came free with the PS40), and always wondered why they didn't have a drill version...

To keep this post somewhat on topic, I do love my Bosch lightweights, but I'm also not about to give up my full size 18V Makita LXTs. I'm not sure there is a direct translation to the white/black LiOn you are looking at (mine are the older blue ones), but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Makita drills to anyone. I've got a drill and an impact driver, and while they are much heavier, the batteries last forever... That said, I probably use the Boschs more in the woodshop and the Makita LXTs for outside/home improvement kinda stuff. Mine were part of a kit with a bunch of other stuff, but the rest of it has almost never been used--who the heck uses a battery operated recip saw or circ saw... Dumb move on my part.

[Stan Smith]

Stan, which cordless drill/drivers do the $20k batteries fit?


they fit the ones that look like 4-dr sedans with tandem wheels on the front and back. I guess I just through that in to make us feel better about the cost of our drill batteries.;)

[Shawn Christ]

Another vote for the Ryobi One+ system here. I think it's the best value. Haven't tried the new li-ion yet, but I've been very pleased with the ni-cds. The Ryobi Torque IV drill has a magnet tray above the battery, which is handier than I originally thought. They also offer a trim router which I routinely use to trim plywood edging and small roundovers. I also use their rotary tool to sharpen the mower blade and garden tools. If you go with Ryobi you might check eBay as you can routinely find an unwanted, brand-new tool that was extracted from a combo pack for a VERY good price.

I also have a heavy-duty DeWalt drill, and the only advantage I see with it over the Ryobi is a third speed.

I recently had a Panasonic 15.6-volt drill and was very pleased with it. Handy compact size, and the batteries were a true marvel at 3.5 amp-hours. But unfortunately the motor died after about 3 years. I think I used it once to pre-drill concrete block for some Tapcons - too lazy to get the corded drill - so I suppose that was my fault... (anybody interested in two used 15.6 batteries and a charger?? ;)) Maybe I should add a hammer drill to my Christmas list...