started turning fresh mesquite! need sealing sugestions...

[andrew zukewycz]

i recently started turning on a lathe i got in a great craigslist trade. i am having a great time, but after visiting my local wood working store i was shocked at how much wood costs... i guess putting a wax coating on a block of wood increases its value by 110%!!!

-to the question-

i got a great deal on fresh mesquite from a guy who sells firewood, he says that wet wood is worthless, and i got half a truck bed full for 25$!

im turning these cool little bowls and goblets, and other stuff, but i am concerned that when the wood dries it will either be cracked or warped really bad.

so does anyone have any special techniques or ideas so that the wood will dry pretty nicely... i am pretty new to this so for right now i am placing the bowls and other stuff into plastic bags with wood shavings and just keeping them in the spare room closet. is this bad?

i really want the stuff to be usable, so that its able to be eaten off of or drank out of.

thanks for any help anyone can give...
later
zuke

heres some pics of what is drying in the closet!
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l40/zuke83/woodturning/2008_0925bowlsbirthday0012.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l40/zuke83/woodturning/2008_0925bowlsbirthday0007.jpg
thanks again.

[Judy Kingery]

Hey Zuke, then,

A man after my own heart! If you don't mind me asking, generally, where are you, or more specifically where did your Mesquite come from? I turn a LOT of it here. It's well, all free or same-same - for the cutting or clean up. Nice deal on $25 for a half pickup load! From your pictures, you have some very nice Mesquite. Not wormy nor rotted already during it's live stages. Looks to be solid and nicely grained.

Here in our area (West TX) Mesquite is, well it grows dry. Stays extremely stable (no warp at all) once cut but even so - sometimes will crack or check. All I do is buy some good ol' parrafin from the grocery (cheap - you can get canning wax by the block for oh I don't know, a buck or two). Have a little pot on the stove, melt it, then a paint brush, just brush it on the end grain. That's where you want to stop it drying too quickly. Long grain I've never had a problem with it cracking or checking, just ends. So I wax it up, usually throw away the 25 cent brush. Store them until I want to use them. I have turned it 'green' and it's been fine from start to finish with a good poly urethane finish. Never has cracked after finish. So I never rough turn, just start to finish. No problem.

I hope you enjoy it; it's my favorite wood to turn and it's pretty plentiful here. Mostly what I turn are bowls, some throw tops. I made a gavel out of it for some guy in Canada and he was pleased. I bet you'll like it. Some of ours (dead trees) already have splits or deficits - which can be fun - or even the grub holes can be kinda neat looking other than I dislike grubs flying out and hitting my face shield. So most of what I turn I pick and choose blanks much like you have, overall stable, solid.

Anyway, hope that is helpful to you. I've just used the wax on end grain for oh like 10 years now and just don't have a problem. Far as storage, interesting, just waxing ends I have a bunch of shelves my husband built for me in the shop and store the Mesquite blanks, waxed, there for a whole summer and it gets hot out there in the summer. It's pretty arid here, so maybe 100 sometimes out there in the shop. Haven't had them crack beyond what they were when I've waxed after they're cut.

Best to you, let us know how it goes! Enjoy!

Jude

[Jason Clark2]

I suspect that if you ask this question to 10 different turners you'll get 10 different answers. Here's my 2 cents:

Mesquite is one of the most stable woods around and I turn a fair amount of it here in Arizona, both trees from landscape sources and native trees from land being cleared for development. Mesquite will crack if the pith is left in but it doesn't warp nearly as much as most other woods out there.

For whole and half logs I seal all cut surfaces with Anchorseal as soon as possible. Once rough turned (sticking to the 10% rule, leave the piece 10% as thick as the diameter, 10" diameter is left 3/4-1" thick) I bag the pieces in paper grocery bags and place them on shelves in my laundry room inside the house. 4-6 months later they are moved to shelves in the garage for another 4-6+ months of drying time. Finally they're remounted, finish turned inside and out, sanded and then finish applied.

Find a local AAW club in your area or locate another local turner and schedule a visit. There's nothing like seeing someone else in action, I'd done a fair amount of turning on my own but remember seeing someone else turn for the first time and being in awe, doing things with a gouge I didn't think were possible.

Jason

[andrew zukewycz]

thanks to both of you for your input,

judy, i live in el mirage az, and the wood is usually more moist than i think it will be, i keep it wrapped in plastic to keep it from drying out, and when im turning the piece its usually when im done that i notice my face shield has been sprayed pretty well!

jason, WOW! does it really take a year to dry out? i wasnt expecting that... when you place the bowl in the grocery bag do put any shavings with it to help it slow its drying process? where do you buy your anchor seal? since that seals in moisture does it make the drying process take much longer?

has anyone used super glue or anything else to keep a natural bowls bark from flying off?

and i was envited to AWA the next meeting in tempe az, hopefully i dont have to work, but i think its this sat so i might have to wait till next month, so for right now i guess ill have to stick to youtube for my lessons! lol...

thanks again.
zuke

[Judy Kingery]

Zuke,

More than welcome. We must be more arid here? I don't know, wouldn't have thought compared to AZ. But nope, never had wet shavings from Mesquite here. And course it could be we're taking down trees perhaps already dead. Or parts of them are, so maybe much drier.

Jason advised you very well, I think. I've not used Anchorseal, so can't speak to that. I've heard paint, old paint, does as well, but I don't know. The wax does fine for me and it's really inexpensive and convenient.

The part about does it slow the drying process? Yes. And that is what you want to avoid cracks and checks as if it dries too rapidly, that's what produces the cracks and checks. Same as your practice of bags and shavings as you mentioned to slow it down on the drying process. That'll work, too.

I've used some super glue to keep bark on, works well, but be a little careful breathing fumes. Use a respirator or something? That stuff gives me fits even at a very short exposure so I seldom use it, but yes, it will work. On bare wood it'll stain it/seal it, so it won't take a finish on any drips.

Sounds like you're coming right along and yep, hopefully you can do an AAW thing. It's really fun to meet other wood turners and see how they do things. Swap tips of the trade so to speak as well as make new friends and enjoy meeting other really nice people.

Let us know how you come along - from your pictures, I'd say you're doing fine!

Jude

[andrew zukewycz]

i think the problem i have now is that my tools are not really up to par with what im doing...

my parting spear broke through the handle today! turns out the tang is only about 2 inches in the handle... the peice was a little gnarly but i was going slow, caught a snag, and bam, no more spear...

it also turns out that the lines in the bowls are from the small gouge i use to make the insides, turns out that the tool is becoming loose inside its wood handle, i thought i just was having a hard time "man-handeling" the tool in the harder spots... but nope, the tool turns in its housing and causes it to snag...

back to the wood. i guess im just a bit shocked that i have to wait upwards a year to see if a bigger piece dried right, or even to finish it.

have you heard of a 24hr de-natured alchohol bath, then drying the piece? i saw it online, i see how it could work, but then i worry that i wont be able to eat off the piece, but then i heard as long as the chemical smell is gone, then the piece is safe...

any thoughts?

thanks again,
zuke

[Judy Kingery]

Hey Zuke,

Oh a couple thoughts, but bear in mind I'm not an expert, just like turning wood and have done it since I was a kid.

I have heard of the denatured alcohol bath, but never tried it. Never needed to. Again might go back to the stuff we have is dry, so stable. Other than it'll crack/check if left out in the sun to dry, but with the wax does fine. I turn it a week later or a month later. Never have waited a year I don't think. But again, perhaps our stuff is dry or already been dead awhile, parts of it.

Yep, good tools can make all the difference to you . . . again some folks will have much more expertise in this than I. I like Crown, Hamlet, and then a few called Diamond, I think an off-shoot of some other company. The steel's good, holds an edge, nice heft to the handle and secure. Never had one come loose or break loose.

There's one brand I don't like because the shaft is rounded and I don't care for the handle at all. Nah, I'm not pushing a particular brand of tools, just saying what works for me. I've never bought a 'set' of tools. Only one at a time, bowl gouge here, parting tool there, skew chisel. Now have a decent collection and my favorite is a bowl gouge, like 1/4" w/ a fingernail sort of grind on it. Well, I have two of those and keep them sharp so if one dulls, I switch out.

I also actually like this round nosed scraper. Lots of folks don't like a scraper due to tear out, but used carefully, they can erase those cut lines on the inside of your bowls. Deft touch, light cuts.

Yep, lots of opinions about that, too. Kinda like Jason mentioned. Ask ten people, get ten different opinions. I've heard that once the chemical smell is gone, it's food-safe. But everything I do really is more decorative so I can't really address that for you.

Anyway, perhaps check out some other tools and see what you think. I've bought mine through Sheffield, and also Crafts Supply, no complaints. Been very pleased and have had these, oh, most of them ten years or more.

Best wishes,

Jude

[Barry Elder]

My two cents worth is that millions of people have eaten out of wooden vessels of one shape or another for many thousands of years, long before sealers and finishes were invented. And they didn't have hot soapy water to wash them with either.

[Mike Ramsey]

Usually the Mesquite here in SE Texas doesn't need any sealing, I've rough turned it & soked it in DNA, turned to it to the finish & I can't
find any benifit from soaking mesquite in DNA. Like everyone says you will
probably not find a more stable wood, wet or dry.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Zuke I turn a lot of mesquite and I turn it right to finish. Most times the bowl walls are 1/4" or so thick and thinner on hollow forms. I use the DNA drying method but have never used it on mesquite because it is so stable. When I dry wood using DNA I can put it back on the lathe to finish turning in about 3 to 6 weeks. I have used it on many pieces that we use for food. I would not put your turnings in plastic bags with wood shavings to dry because it won't. Being inside plastic bags the moisture cannot escape and your wood will get moldy, etc. Put the bowl with shavings in a brown grocery sack, tape it shut then it will dry as the moisture can then escape.

As far as tools go you need to keep them sharp. Sharp tools are a must. What brands? Like was said you will get a 20 different answers from 20 different people. The rings in the first bowl look like my first turnings with dull tools. As far as the parting tool breaking thru the handle and only being 2" deep. Most of my turning tools are no deeper than 2". I buy most of my tools unhandled and make my own. So take the parting tool that came out of the handle and make a new handle for it. Another thing to be aware of is using the proper tool for what you are turning.

I would find a turning club near you and join it. I taught myself to turn thru books, video's and DVD's. It took a lot of mistakes and time that I know could have avoided had I had a club or mentor close by.

By the way it looks like you have a good start. Bowls look good. Keep the first one. Sign it, date it and put it on the shelf so that a year from now you can compare.

Good luck.

[andrew zukewycz]

i didnt think of the bags not letting moisture escape, ill go take them out right now. dont want any moldy bowls!

the tools i have are the ones i got from the guy who had the lathe before me. they were left outside = rusty, dry handles, dull.

i bought a small grinder and watched a video on how to sharpen tools. so they are ok in the sharp dept.

those lines in the bottom of the bowls i just thought i would get them out when the bowl is dry.

i think the best thing is to do what everyone suggessted and just go to a turners meeting... but it could be a couple months before i can due to thier frequency.

thanks again for all the input.

any other bits and pieces about working with mesquite is welcome.

later
zuke

[Jason Clark2]

Andrew, It can be turned sooner than a year but I usually don't get back to it any sooner than that. Some people will turn it to final thickness while green but I'm not normally one of them. Most of the mesquite I get are landscape trees and have been heavily irrigated most of the time so they have much more water in them than a wild mesquite would have.

I don't include any shavings or anything else, just the bowl (or multiple bowls if they've been cored out of a larger piece) placed in the bag. Pieces larger than a grocery bag get wrapped in craft paper and taped shut. I tried DNA several years ago but no longer see a benefit to it for Mesquite.

If you can make it to the monthly Arizona Woodturners Association meetings I'd highly encourage it. We meet monthly in Tempe. Additionally there is a different group that is meeting in mid November, I believe the focus on that meeting will be penturning. See Mike Vickery's post in the turning forum.

Jason

[Richard Madison]

Zuke,
Much good advice above. For long term storage seal the log ends with hot melted paraffin. Short, straight pieces- you could put on the lathe and remove bark, sapwood, and worms (wearing faceshield for this), and coat ends with melted paraffin. Cracks will develop at the pith. Big logs, probably best to cut through the pith (lengthwise, of course) or even remove a slab of 1"-2" thickness through the pith, seal the ends. Store above ground, protected from direct sun and rain, but with air circulation around the wood.

You can usually turn mesquite directly to finished thickness, as the radial and tangential shrinkage rates are nearly equal so there is minimal cracking and distortion as the wood dries. Best if the thickness of the piece is nearly uniform throughout. Mesquite tends to develop hairline cracks as you turn, and you can treat these with a drop or two of CA as soon as you see them. Give the CA a minute or two to dry so that any excess is not thrown off the piece (toward you).

When turning any wet wood (even if it is not flinging water off), protect your lathe bed from wet shavings, and clean immediately and thoroughly when done turning. For wet oak I spray on a coat of oil and cover that with plastic. Mesq. is not that bad.

That's all I can think of that hasn't been covered.

[Ron McKinley]

In El Mirage your mesquite will be dry within a month if you rough turn it. But, I would think you could finish turn in one session and not have to worry about it........Ron

[Allen Neighbors]

I'll just add my .02. I live about 3 hours North of Jude, so the Mesquite we get is pretty much the same... her mesquite may even be a little wetter than mine, due to the amount of rain they get there. Sadly, up here, most large Mesquites have pith checks, because of the terrific wind we get during spring storms.
I buy Anchorseal from UC Coatings. 2 5-gallon buckets at a time. I paint the ends of blanks so they won't crack as much while they're waiting to be turned. I turn Mesquite to finish once I get it on the lathe. Most of my bowls go to 1/4" or 3/8" thickness. I always turn the outside first, finish sand it, and put a lacquer wash on it. The wash will keep any CA from staining the wood. (I might have to put some on a hairline crack). Most of the outer layer of the wash is then sanded away with 320 and 400 grits, again, but it does seal the wood. Then I turn the inside, flip it around and finish the bottom. Applying the wash on the outside, seals the wood, causing it to dry mostly through the inside. If it tries to shrink during the drying process, it will shrink inwardly, not cracking. That's just my theory on it that I picked up somewhere, and it seems to work for me. I try not to put the wash on the inside for that reason, if I'm turning green wood just to be on the safe side. But if I have to CA a small crack inside, I'll use the wash. If it's a bowl to be used for foodstuffs, I'd rather just buff it without finish. Some people doubt that they're unfinished, but most of them are.
Like has been said before, Mesquite is the most stable of woods. You'll love it.
The lacquer wash is approx. 65% Thinner/35% Lacquer, applied with a small chunk of T shirt, and wiped dry while spinning with a clean chunk.