Direct to Substrate Printing

[Harry Radaza]

I haven't tried dye sub. I tried CLTT but it seems it is not practical for high volume jobs (print, cut, tape, press, etc). Found this printer...

http://www.directcolorsystems.com/products.html

cheapest model is around 11,000$. accepts substrates up to 6". This just might be the solution I am looking for. The only problem is speed?

Anyone have experience with this? speeeds? consumables ? Ink? etc

[Mike Null]

Roy Brewer of Engraving Concepts, is a distributor and a member here.

http://www.engravingconcepts.com/

[Doug Griffith]

I've dealt quite a bit with printing directly onto plastic. I would contact the manufacturer and send sample materials and a digital file for them to test and send back to you. Have them keep track of print times as well. Make sure the file you send them puts their system to the test. Make a high resolution file that includes solid tones (100% black, 60/40/40/100 black, neutral gray, primaries, secondaries, etc...), gradients, fine lines, small point type, and a human face. Send the file in both CMYK and RGB (better gamut). You should also send them a color proof if you can. If they make a custom color profile for your job, ask for that as well.

Digital imaging onto plastic is faster than sublimation but not by much. Also, solvent inks smell and require you to let them dry for a period of time (ask about this as well).

Cheers,
Doug

[matt heinzel]

Not sure how it compares, but we use the Millennium 750i system from direct color for our color nametags. Overall it's a nice system, but of course it has its issues. It is very hard to print edge to edge, matching PMS colors is not simple at all. Also I always have a number of throwaways in each batch, due to bad registration or other printing issues. There is my 2 cents. Like I said don't know how the systems compare.

[Rodne Gold]

I had a similar machine , a Busjet , cost me a fortune.
When it worked ,it was brilliant , but it often didnt work and eventually I had to almost dump it.(swapped it this DEC for a truckload of wooden plaques)
All based on the Epson 1290 printer....or equivalent , tho the big model in DCS is a differnt printer by the looks in its catalogue.
On my machine I replaced numerous heads , damper , pumps etc - all to no avail , leave the machine idle for a day or so and it required a major service/rebuild.
Be aware tho , I am talking about a BUSJET..same concept as the DCS but a different machine..maybe these things are now far more reliable.
I bought mine 4-5 yrs ago.
Prints on curves etc. We printed on most stuff , with eco sol inks , tho some stuff has to be coated to accept ink (We often just sprayed artists fixative on stuff and printed) They arent difficult machines to use , its a printer......

Inks are NOT opaque , so you are limited on the colour of your background.
I would say this , if the machine can print white , then you got something going.......

Sometimes its real cool that the substrate shows thru , printing on silver metals or mettalised plastic give the print a metallic hue.
I printed a pic of my mom , 5 yrs ago , its in a sunny room , in direct sun, and it still looks fresh today.
The cost to print is dirt cheap , If I remember right , its like less than 30c per a4 or even less than that , print times were reasonably quick with my machine. You can make tray ligs for multiple stuff and palletise and semi automate big jobs.
The guy that bought it from me does wine crates for our huge winery industry and uses it to print on crate lids for smaller jobs , his machine works like 10 hrs a day but is unrelable , but he took mine for spare/second machine..he makes tons of dosh doing it with the busjet.
We were hoping to combine it with our laser in terms of printing on laser cut stuff , and in fact I did zillions of small signage and CD seperators for one of our music chains stores. Worked out brilliantly. It's just such a pity my machine (and all sold here) were so damned unreliable...support was good , but in mainly chinese.

BUT for that money , you can get a small vinyl print and cut machine like a Roland SP300 , and that is FAR more versatile imho. You can print on iron on transfers , all vinyls , thin films , flag , banner , mesh, paper and die cut em........add a doming operation, dome the output.
Otherwise I would wait for the price of flatbed uv printers to come down and use one of those , they print white and on ANY uncoated and print opaquer.

[Mark Winlund]

We had an Encad vinyl printer that we lost a fortune on. 3 bad banners for every good one. Encad stopped supporting it after one year; wouldn't even talk to us. Spent $14K, sold it for $2K to someone that was willing to gamble.

We still do sublimation, but one company (Sawgrass) has a monopoly on the inks, and they are very expensive. The printers (Epson's with fixed print heads) clog up and die frequently, so they need to be replaced regularly. Sublimation used to be the cheap way to go... not any more! We've been doing it since the B&W Novachrome days where they supplied you with a cheap copier loaded with their toner (for $4000!).

We are thinking of going the CLT route, but are concerned with the durability. We make badges and awards, and they get a lot of rough handling.

It's a mine field out there!

Mark

[martin g. boekers]

I've been playing with the CLT from Magic Touch USA. I have a Xerox Phaser 6360 that I use. I've transfered to many off the shelf products, the transfers even adhered to ceramic steins that were shaped with rounded edges, needed a rubber pad but the whole image did transfer, that wouldn't happen with dye-sub. seems nice but now to see how they hold up.

I have a test out right now for a client on powder coated aluminum, we'll see it it holds up to his testing. It did transfer good! 1st step!

First wave of testing was good. (basic screen printers "tape test")

Next is for the mugs to go through commercial dishwashers to see how long they last.

Outdoor testing will take awhile, I have access to a powerful UV light source for screen burning, but don't no how relevent that is to sunlight.

Being self weeding means no trimming to the shape, that works well!

Dye sub is prone to fading and I'm not sure how toner will compare.

They do have a set of papers that adds a white self mask to the work on darker substrates, not difficult to work with , but too expensive for what I normally sell.

I'm really an experimenter at heart so as I try different things I'll pass the info on as I get a chance.

I have a new horizontal mug press coming net week and I cant' wait to try a baseball bat and a frosted wine bottle. (I do some work for some wine makers and I'm anxious to see how it works on the frosted bottles.)

The best part is no expensive inks and printer problems and no specialty coated products!


Marty

[Roy Brewer]

http://www.directcolorsystems.com/products.html (http://www.directcolorsystems.com/products.html) accepts substrates up to 6" thick. This just might be the solution I am looking for. The only problem is speed?OK, since Mike Null drug me into this :rolleyes:

Depends on what you call "high production." As Rodney said, ink is cheap and it uses the Epson 1800 engine so speed is that of a standard inkjet printer (which of course varies based on resolution). The DirectJet does print white ink which helps a lot, understand this is not opaque, white ink like the $135K Mimaki prints(but it greatly enhances the color for many applications).

In addition to the white capability, it also can be instructed to put clear coat(s) over the white & color "layers." This adds little UV resistance, but makes the printing much more abrasion resistant.

The DirectJet comes with a print driver, but for the best possible color "pop" and "match," one should use the native software: ColorByte (an OEM version of SignLab/EngraveLab).

Also as Rodney mentioned, it is not for the "faint of heart" or "occasional" user; week end OK, but if not used for a week or more, head cleaning/ink charge should be anticipated. Because of the Eco Solv inks, it is no where near as difficult to maintain as the DTG printers &/or sublimation printers, but *much more* maintenance required compared to an American made laser engraver. Capping station will need to be replaced every 90 days or so.

About the only similarity to DCS's Millennium, is that it uses the same ColorByte software. The Millennium is a ribbon based, internal dye sub process: a high production, full color, elegantly simple, "badge" machine(but really doesn't do much more than badges).