“I normally don’t like segmented work.”

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

I have an observation that I’d like to share. On this site and on all other sites, I often read comments regarding “segmented” postings that start with words such as, “I normally don’t like segmented work, but ….” It’s not a big deal, but I’ve often wondered why someone, who is about to praise a piece, feels that that they have to state that it’s an exception to the way that they normally feel about segmented work. I’ve received those types of comments numerous times and today I see where Mike Golka has received a few such comments.
Any thoughts?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I wonder if the poster is just trying to make the turner this realize just how special the poster considers the piece they are critiquing or commenting about?

There are some styles of art, (not turnings) that I don't particularly like. If I happen to see a piece in that style that does catch my eye, I might make a statement like that so the artist knows how very special that piece is IMHO.

Art....music....so subjective....there is no definitive objective measurement ....it is strictly a matter of personal taste again...IMHO.

[Brett Baldwin]

I suspect most of the posters think they are actually raising the value of the praise they are giving when they say things like "I normally don't like ...... but your example is -insert praise here-. ". They don't consider that the initial statement tells you that they find most of the "......" to be below their criteria for good work/aesthetics/quality/etc so when they praise your work, they are really saying that it is just an exceptional example of a lesser item.

There is also a psychological aspect that good news after bad seems better than that good news by itself. It doesn't actually apply to this situation but like many ideas, it may have been overgeneralized and is now misused. That may be why the habit to start a sentence that way is common.

I may be guilty of this offence as well but I'll be sure not to repeat it if I have done so before.


BTW, I really like the title of your thread. It practically begs you to read it when you look at the title and then the author. You think..."What! Malcolm Tibbets doesn't like segmented ?!" Very catchy :)

[Judy Kingery]

Malcolm,

I'd echo what Ken and Brett said. It's possibly a habitual phrase someone employs to raise the value of the compliment to follow. I love segmented work and yours, of course are outstanding.

But I've been known to say, 'normally I dislike painting/coloring wood and prefer natural grain, but - (insert said compliment on elements I do like.)' So my feelings are genuine as truly, in the past, I really haven't liked painted wood or colored wood. I have, however, seen some exceptional pieces done with various dyes and patina type finishes, copperization and so on - that have changed my generalization of 'normally I don't like colored wood.'

Just my two cents. Best to you, good question, too!

Jude

[Richard Madison]

Well normally I don't like questions like this, but it was a very good question.

My initial (internal) response is always, how could anyone not like segmented work (unless they have seen only poor examples and believe that to be the norm). Perhaps, as other have said, it's intended to enhance the strength of the compliment which follows. But remains a bit disconcerting nevertheless.

Reminds me of a comment I read by one of the judges of a juried show or exhibit, to the effect that she did not much like plain "brown and round". I really did not want or need to know that.

Might be an interesting experiment to get Steve to respond that way to everyone's post for one or two days and see what feelings it elicited. Not a good idea though, as not everyone would get the word that it was an experiment.

[Mike Henderson]

I think the reason someone might say, "I normally don't like segmented work..." is because a lot of it, especially by novices, is flat out, God-awful, ugly - made from woods with unflattering sharp contrasts and loud patterns.

Unlike a bowl turned from a solid block of wood, a segmented turning requires great design skills as well as great turning skills. Those two skills rarely exist in one person – but when they do, we see exceptional work - work that might be praised with the prefix, "I normally don't like segmented work..."

Mike

[Robert McGowen]

I have to agree with a little bit of everything said so far.

I think that it would be unusual though, to say the least, if you posted:

"I normally don't like solid wood bowls turned from one boring species of wood using minimal design skills, but your is very nice." :D:D:D

Perhaps Malcolm has a point? :rolleyes:

[Jim Evans]

I like segmented work! I appreciate the time and skill it takes to produce a segmented piece. Especially knowing all the cutting, gluing, and waiting could all be ruined during the turning phase.

As for the tagline "I normally don’t like segmented work" maybe it is because they don't like to do it and can't understand how anyone else could either.I personally don't see the excitement in turning pens but I won't bring that up here. Oops - I just did. Sorry pen lovers.

[George Guadiane]

I have an observation that I’d like to share. On this site and on all other sites, I often read comments regarding “segmented” postings that start with words such as, “I normally don’t like segmented work, but ….” It’s not a big deal, but I’ve often wondered why someone, who is about to praise a piece, feels that that they have to state that it’s an exception to the way that they normally feel about segmented work. I’ve received those types of comments numerous times and today I see where Mike Golka has received a few such comments.
Any thoughts?
I normally don't wear hats. I don't think they look good on me for some reason...
But every now and then, I put one on that I actually like.
I have made similar comments about pierced and or carved work, especially pieces that hardly look turned at all... Stuff that I just do not gravitate to -
But every now and then, I see something that moves me. I don't think of it as a slam to the general medium, like country music, I don't listen to it much, but every time I hear "Please Don't Take The Girl," I cry like a baby, it just moves me.
I suppose the fist part COULD be left off, but in my mind it's a way of saying:
"In spite of whatever prejudice or reservations I might have, this piece transcends the medium and speaks to me in a way that forces me to embrace the results of your efforts." (or something like that):D

[Keith Burns]

I suppose the fist part COULD be left off, but in my mind it's a way of saying:
"In spite of whatever prejudice or reservations I might have, this piece transcends the medium and speaks to me in a way that forces me to embrace the results of your efforts." (or something like that):D

Very well said George ! I don't see anything odd about using the phrase, in fact I have used the phrase. For instance I normally dont like winged bowls, don't know why, but I don't. But occasionally there is one that really speakes to me and I like it and I will use that phrase. I don't find anything wrong or offensive about it. To me it would be a compliment.

[Don Eddard]

I think the reason someone might say, "I normally don't like segmented work..." is because a lot of it, especially by novices, is flat out, God-awful, ugly - made from woods with unflattering sharp contrasts and loud patterns.

Unlike a bowl turned from a solid block of wood, a segmented turning requires great design skills as well as great turning skills. Those two skills rarely exist in one person – but when they do, we see exceptional work - work that might be praised with the prefix, "I normally don't like segmented work..."

Mike
I agree with Mike. On a number of segmented pieces I've seen, the form simply sucks, or the pattern/design is not aesthetic to my eye. Having seen the amazing pieces a good segmenter can make, I figure life's too short to have to look at ugly pieces. Same goes for non-segmented work as well.

[John Shuk]

I've used that line.
I guess that I'm too lazy to type that I think many pieces don't grab me and that I think that often I would prefer to see the grain pattern continue a bit longer than many segmented pieces allow for. Then there are pieces that I find really grab me and impress me in the way that the wood is used to full advantage in one way or another.
Personally I find it easier to appreciate a broader spectrum of solid wood pieces than segmented.
If I say that I'm not normally partial to segmented work and them move on to praise a piece. It is just an easy way of telling where I am coming from.
I'm sure I've heard more than once from "The pros" during instant gallery critiques at symposiums similar statements.

Even for the segmented works that I don't care for I appreciate the work that goes into making it. I will never be a geometry major and I would find that skill daunting at best.

[Doug Reesor]

Very interesting comments everyone. The problem we all face is that language is much too limited to describe any work of art or craft and for me wood turning covers at least 3 of the 5 senses -sight, touch, and smell. As we all work to be supportive and creative, I find that the words I chose fall well short of the awe that so many of the pieces pictured here so richly deserve. How does one put into context in a few short lines a feeling that can be interpreted as positive for a group of folks who are for the most part strangers without saying the same thing over and over again? My choice is therefore to rarely post responses or pictures but that is also a copout. I think it is most important to discern the intent of the message being sent instead of focusing how I might of said it differently.

DOug

[charlie knighton]

a segemented piece has to be turned just as chunked wood, but to cut out the pieces to do a segmented piece a turner has to be a part carpenter and planner also, i am uncomfortable with power saws so when i see segmented pieces i admire them but do not consider doing one or more

Malcolm your pieces are wonderful and i enjoy seeing them

[Tim A. Mitchell]

I normally don't like kids, but I like mine.

Actually, I agree with Mike Henderson. Many are hard to look at. The hoice of wood is poor, the joints are bad, and the form ends up looking odd.

I normally like the well crafted segmented work, but I would dislike the one I would make.

[Mike Golka]

Malcolm, I see you can provoke thought as well as you segment! As for the comment I'll take my compliments any way I can get em!

[Curt Fuller]

I don't know if I've ever actually typed those words but I know I've thought them. For me it's more of a 'segmented work isn't my favorite' statement rather than a statement that I normally don't like it. I've seen some beautiful segmented work but I agree somewhat with what Mike Henderson said. Using woods that compliment each other and the overall design of the work become a factor in the final look. And some do it much better than others. I'm also very much attracted to the natural beauty in wood which I believe a rounded, turned form best reveals. Segmented work tends to chop that into a lot of hard angles and straight lines, often in a beautiful way, but nonetheless detracting from the natural beauty of the wood.

[Lee DeRaud]

I wonder how often when a turner says "I don't like segmented", what they really mean is that they don't like to (or can't) do segmented, and they're projecting the tedium (real or imagined) that they see in the segmented process.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Wow, what a surprise to come back this evening and find such an interesting set of responses. Thanks everyone for taking the time... I think it's fair to say (as it's been said) most people are simply trying to elevate the level of their praise by preceding their praise with a negative reference.

BTW, I love almost all segmented work. I specially like to see "beginner" pieces, because I can appreciate the work and how much risk the maker endured. I wonder if the maker "got hooked" on segmenting. Segmenting is certainly "not for everyone", but for me personally, I've never turned a solid piece of wood that gave me anywhere near the same level of satisfaction. Having said that, I find great joy in viewing all forms of wood art.

[Jim Becker]

I am personally "guilty" of that particular phrase and I think that both Ken and Tim summed up why. Some of it is just style preference, but honestly, a lot of it is around execution as Mike and Tim explained. A well-executed segmented piece will catch my eye every time. That includes both form and how the segmentation was designed to enhance the form. While this is certainly subjective, I think that "missed fundamentals" in either multiplies any negative impression. At least with me.

[Raymond Overman]

Well, I normally don't like to get into these kinds of discussions but I'll give it a go this time. I don't mean any of this personally towards anyone. If you're turning, you're turning and that's good enough for me.

MY thought on the reason they say it that way is because that's exactly how they feel. I look at many polychromatic turnings the same way I look at macrame. It used to be cool. Most of it reminds me of my grandmother's decor and while I appreciate the time, work, and craftsmanship a majority of it still looks dated. I feel the same way about art with thickly appied pastels, neons and black or white. (think Miami Vice) They have an 80s feel to them to me.

However, when it's done well as is the case with Malcolm's work, polychromatic work is artistic and looks fresh and new. It's hard work to get over the dated stereotype and takes more than a fair share of skill to reach that level. I think it's a lot easier to make a simple bowl with a good curve out of figured wood look like the pros did it.

I think, if If I was a segmented turner, the first time I heard that phrase I would feel that I broke through that barrier. However, after one thousand times, it would get on my nerves too.

[Jim Underwood]

Good question Malcolm. Guilty as charged. Multiple times I'm sure.
But....
Even after thinking about it for 24 hours, I'm still not sure what to say. I'll try to express how I feel as I write this out. Please accept my apologies, because this is meant to be frank, not harsh.

While I can appreciate the skill and work that go into segmented turnings, it's the style of most of them that just leaves me cold. It feels too stiff, too planned and stilted.

I like the spontaneity of natural wood over a segmented turning. In the words of the aforementioned judge, I like simple, classic, "round and brown". (But definitely NOT "clunky".) (Just so you know, you don't want to choose me as the judge of the segmented turnings section.....:rolleyes:) I think that's why I like watercolor painting over oils or acrylics too- (the opinion of art critics notwithstanding) it is a very spontaneous medium and easily overworked. So when it's done well, I have a great appreciation for it.

Normally when I see a segmented turning it just seems static, plastic, and staged. It's just not spontaneous.

Much of it seems overly busy to me too. To be sure, the thousands of pieces are an impressive amount of work and skill, but most of the time the segmented design just smacks of busyness. Some of the segmented turnings I like the best, have the least amount of pieces or colors. I believe it was Mark Kauder who came and gave a talk one day about segmented turnings, and his best pieces (in my opinion) were all of one kind of wood. He had good form, good joints, spectacular finish, and one kind of wood. Very nice quality pieces.

So when I see a segmented turning that I really like (remember, this is just personal opinion!), it's the exception rather than the rule, and so I say so.

Actually now that I think about it more, segmented turning may be a bit like watercolors because watercolors take a lot of forethought in order to pull it off - unlike oils where one can just paint over the mistakes. Perhaps, segmented turnings are easily overworked and take lots of forethought....

Well that's my opinion, and you paid about what it's worth. :p;)

In the future though, I'll refrain from using this phrase, and find some better way of expressing my appreciation of turnings, rather than giving a backhanded compliment.

[Barry Elder]

I like my woodturning like my music: I like some of every type of music (except rap, which makes me think of storytelling by people who can't sing), and I like some of all kinds and types of woodturning and wood art. But I see that many new turners are trying to turn deep hollow forms and complex segmented pieces without the "fundamentals" needed. Many of these same people have their lathes for sale because of the frustrations involved with fractured pieces and many hours of trial and error resulting in failure. A few struggle on and some seek assistance from turners with the experience to help. There are many cheerleaders around who lavish "attaboys" and "welldones" at the drop of a hat but I prefer to praise those outstanding pieces (to my mind) that I feel show the rising level of accomplishment.

[Walt Nollan]

I've recieved that coment about segmentation allot on this forum but have never taken it as a negative comment. Any turning can have bad form. I've done plenty. But with help from this and other forums I learned from every contributor. Some people like working with wet wood. I don't. I like segmenting. Other don't. We are all woodturners though and thats what counts. However, segmentation rule! Malcom, you have kicked it up a notch!

[Frank Kobilsek]

I don't like doing segmented work but I love well done segmented work.

Maybe people that say such things are not fans of Southwest motif which so much segmented work resembles.

My 2 cents worth.

Frank

[Tamara Brown]

"I specially like to see "beginner" pieces, because I can appreciate the work and how much risk the maker endured. I wonder if the maker "got hooked" on segmenting. "


I'll say! :D Having watched the LOML work (toil) over the engineering aspect of segmenting makes me realize that this aspect is just as enjoyable for him as the artistry. He is definitely left and right brained so this type of work definitely appeals to him. So if you feel that hours (days, months) of planning to create a piece of art is what you need to feel satisfied...give segmenting a try! Oh, and Thank You Malcom, you and your book created a never ending supply of Christmas and Birthday gifts for me to give to my LOML...there is always a new tool, or type of wood that he needs. I appreciate it! Did I mention that he is addicted!:rolleyes:

[Larry Marley]

I think it goes back to advise that Malcolm has given in the past.


For me, a large percentage of segmented turnings have forfeited form and only focused on the patterns.

The first thing I see in a turning is the shape.
Since in segmented turning you are starting with an idea and then building your blank. Your thoughts need to start early in the process to define a shape that will attract without patterns. Then the segmented designs add to the presentation. A profile that doesn't work for a monochrome turning will take away from all the hard work in a segmented piece.

[Cody Colston]

Well, I normally don't like segmented pieces although I've seen one or two that appealed to me. I've also used that phrase in response to a picture posting when I did like the piece.

In my case, it was to convey that I thought the segmented piece was much more attractive and appealing than most I had seen and didn't care for, whatever the reason.

It has nothing to do with ability, either. If I liked the look of segmented turnings, I would try them but they don't appeal to me enough to even attempt the process. I simply prefer the look of solid wood.