poplar for workbench?

[Billy Dodd]

I came across some 12/4 poplar and was wondering if it would be strong enough for a workbench. I know it's not maple, but around here hard maple seems hard to come by. Billy

[Steve Sawyer]

There are three issues in selection of wood for workbenches - hardness, stability and weight. Poplar might pass muster for the first two categories, but poplar is an awfully light wood. Unless you glue up to be much thicker with taller aprons, thicker legs and stretchers, it might be too light to stay put for some operations like heavy planing.

I might go for something a bit harder, too. I don't know what hardwoods are common in your area, but hard maple isn't the only option - soft maple, ash, oak and many others make good workbench material. Southern yellow pine is popular with many.

[Stephen Shepherd]

Billy,

I for one am a fan of a softer wood used for bench tops. I do a lot of furniture repair so a softer workbench (mine is pine) doesn't damage what I am working on.

And 12/4 should be just fine and will take a holdfast well. Go for the Poplar.

Stephen

[Jack Camillo]

great thing about poplar is its workability - easy. and, being lighter, might help in such a big project. I just built a desk base out of it because the job called for paint on the base (natural finish on the top), and it worked out splendidly. First time I built furniture with it (I'm not a fan of painted furniture). But, I have some nice boards left over and will be making shop furniture out of them.

[Casey Gooding]

Poplar would probably work OK for a bench. I would make sure to OVERbuild the bench. Using draw bored mortise and tenon joints with large stretchers will help stabilize things.
Have fun!!

[Jim Becker]

I am also a fan of (tulip/yellow) poplar and use it quite a bit. While I'm no expert on benches, I'd not hesitate to use it for a bench top, using the advice to build thick and I'll add to build your base with enough mass to compensate for the lighter weight of the top.

[Graham Hughes (CA)]

You can make a workbench out of anything, you just have to make it thicker sometimes. Poplar is not particularly stiff, so you may need additional support in the undercarriage. It's not particularly heavy, so you may need to add more weight somehow (sandbags, for example). And it's not very hard, so it will dent--on the other hand it will surface nicely, which e.g. hard maple is not real friendly about. Hardness is much overblown; my bench is made of Douglas fir and has a number of chisel scars that don't really impact performance.

Note that "tulip poplar" is a different species and makes for much better construction material than straight poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera vs. Populus spp.). So if you have tulip poplar then you're probably fine.

[Wilbur Pan]

As mentioned above, the main issue with using poplar is that it's nice to have a heavy workbench to keep it in place when planing.

However, there are other approaches to making a bench stay in place besides sheer mass, as I'm doing with my temporary bench with a top made of 12/4 poplar (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=85596).

[Billy Dodd]

I think I can make it heavy with the size of these boards and by mmaking it a little over kill on size. These boards are about 6 inches wide and around 12 feet long. Defect free. I don't know what kind of poplar they are just that they are the green in color kind.

Nice thought on the softness Stephen. With it being a little softer maybe it will be easier on a finish.

Graham might have a good idea if it's too light. I've added sandbags to lathes before with good results.

And Jim, why would anybody from Pa work with poplar. With all the wood around you, I think I would find nothing but hardwood in my shop.

Billy

[Jim Becker]

Billy, poplar is a hardwood. So is balsa wood. ;) The term "hardwood" has nothing to do with the actual hardness or density of the species. In general, hardwoods are deciduous trees (drop leaves seasonally); softwoods are evergreens (retain leaves/needles year round) Half the timber on our four acres is tulip poplar, which is one of the most used species of wood used in the furniture industry. It is true, however, that it's not as hard as other species, such as oak and cherry. I build primarily with cherry, walnut and poplar.

[Stephen Shepherd]

While Jim's general characterization of hardwood/softwood is good there are exceptions; holly a hardwood, keeps its leaves and larch a softwood looses its needles every year.

The gymnosperm/angiosperm distinction is a bit more technical, but a hardwood has enclosed seeds (fruit or nut) and softwood has naked seeds (cones).

Also when buying 'poplar' you will probably get a mixture of poplar and magnolia, at least out West.

Stephen

[David Keller NC]

Hate it when the timber industry does that. I've had someone at a local timber company absolutely insist that hickory is "the same as" pecan, even to the point of insisting that it's the same tree! Anyone that's ever tried to eat a hickory nut can tell you they aren't the same thing - neither is the wood from the two species, but it seems that in regards to timber industry standards, the workability characteristics make them "equivalent".

[Jim Becker]

Also when buying 'poplar' you will probably get a mixture of poplar and magnolia, at least out West.

Yellow Poplar (Tulip Poplar) is a member of the magnolia family.

Thanks for adding your additional commentary on the hardwood/softwood topic...I did mean my own to be very general (hence the italics) but you pointed out some very good "exceptions" to illustrate things more clearly.

[Billy Dodd]

Ok Jim and Stephen, which kind of poplar is it that has a green color to it? There is a lot of magnolia's down south of here, but I have know idea where the sawmill got these logs from.

And as for the hardwood and soft, we have a lot of aromatic cedar which is supposed to be a hardwood but it stays green year round and I'm not sure I've ever seen seeds on them.

David you can point your timber guide out this way and I can show him the difference between pecan and hickory. They look nothing a like. From the leaves and the bark to the color and charateristics (sp?) I don't think I'd buy lumber from him. I have a nice 20 foot log of hickory sitting behind my shop right now, waiting for me to decide what to do with it. My brother wants to cut it up for his smoker. So I have to keep watch over it when he comes over.

Billy

[Mark Roderick]

I'll add my two cents.

I built a workbench out of pine, which is even softer and lighter than poplar, and the top is only about 12/4 thick, the same as yours. My bench is so heavy and sturdy that not only does it not move a centimeter under the heaviest of hand planing, I didn't even have to attach the top to the base! The sheer weight of the top (about 72 inches by about 24 inches with two heavy Record vises) creates enough friction that no mechanical attachment is necessary.

And that was before I build cabinets that sit on the bottom stretchers, under the top. With that additional weight, you'd need a tank to move my pine bench.

Like others, I WANT a top that's soft. The last thing I want is for the top to dent my workpiece.

So go for the poplar bench!

[Jim Becker]

Ok...which kind of poplar is it that has a green color to it?

Yellow Poplar, AKA Tulip Poplar AKA Liriodendron Tulipifera L is a member of the magnolia family (Magnoliaceae) which has about 200 different species, 11 of which are native to North America. Liriodendron, Illicium (anise) and Magnolia are the three "branches" of the family, as it were.

Yellow poplar heartwood has a green cast to it when fresh-cut, but that color will turn brown with exposure to UV and through oxidation.

I just had 1550 board feet of yellow poplar milled in my back yard last week (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=92499&highlight=poplar) and had even more produced back in 2000. (There are pictures of the latter event on my web site)

[Billy Dodd]

Jim,
That sure is a nice pile of wood you wound up with. By the looks of the slabs, it looks like you had several logs. That will help out the wood stove as well. Nothing wasted. I can see a bunch of work involved with that and I can feel your pain. Picking up a 12 inch 4/4 board dry is one thing but some people don't realize how much that same board weights wet and fresh cut. Need some of my Ibuprofen? I'll be expecting to see something made with that. I'll post the follow up on my bench when I get it going.

Billy

[Jim Becker]

Yes, the 5/4 ~18" wide slabs were, umm...hefty. The amount of water in wood prior to drying is substantial and heavy. Hence, those boards are on the bottom of the pile, both because they take a little longer to dry and because there was no way I was going to lift them higher than that myself.

Three trees came down this time and the sections we cut up were 8' long. (at my request)

[Tony Bilello]

I built my workbench using 4x4 treated pine for the legs, 2x4 pine for the lower shelf frame and double layer of plywood for the top. You could sit a car on top of my workbench. If your bench is designed properly, poplar will work just fine.
A also agree with the idea of a softer top depending on what kind of work you will be doing. I only make my mallets from scrap 4x4 pine. They last for many years beat up as they look but they cause minimal damage to my projects when something has to be 'persuaded' into place.

If poplar is what you have, then poplar is what you should use.

[David Keller NC]

"David you can point your timber guide out this way and I can show him the difference between pecan and hickory. They look nothing a like."

Yeah, I was aware of that - but I'd bet the idiot salesman never took a walk in the woods. Species distinctions matter in some cases - live oak isn't remotely similar to red oak in workability characteristics (particularly with hand tools), but quite a few of the timber dealers I've asked have said "it's the same stuff"...

[Anthony W Rich Jr]

I came across some 12/4 poplar and was wondering if it would be strong enough for a workbench. I know it's not maple, but around here hard maple seems hard to come by. Billy

I'm trying to buy some 8/4 x 4 for part of my Bench, Add some 3/4" Bamboo Plywood to your Bench Heavy Dense Material. I was going to glue a sheet to my poplar top but after planing the boards the grain has beautiful random patterns in it, so now I will use it to add weight to my rails and legs maybe a cabinet door or two. Built a 6' Poplar and Bamboo Moxon Vise to go on top.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Anthony and welcome to the Creek.

I must have missed this thread during my moving to Washington from California when it started.

Poplar is readily available in this area.

jtk

[glenn bradley]

My base is poplar. It works well and has served me well. I assume traditional holdfasts might eventually wear the dog holes fast than a harder material if that is in your future. I cobbled these together out of some HF clamps and prefer the more controlled pressure I can apply with them; hole wear is of no concern.

360018 . 360017

My top is 2 layers of MDF on 2 layers of 3/4" marine ply so weight is not an issue. You could add drawers as I did for weight as well. I'd forge ahead.

360016

[Rick Malakoff]

Glenn, great use for the HF clamps, thanks for the pics.
Rick

[Ted Reischl]

Heavy does not automatically mean stable. You can build a bench out of hard maple, big honking legs, stretchers and the top 4 inches thick and it will wobble all over the place if the joinery is sloppy.

If you get the joints right and the bench moves when you plane then it needs more weight.

In my case, I built ten drawers that sit across the lower rails (my lower rails are 5 X 5 japanese pine right on the floor). Those drawers became my hardware store. It is where I keep lots of nuts, bolts, screws, steel and brass rod, etc. I found putting tools in a drawer under the bench was not all that convenient for the way I work, but putting the hardware there has worked out great!

My bench is a little unconventional when it comes to joinery. The legs are attached to the rails with bridle joints, big, honking, about 2 inches thick tenons. Since the rails are 5 inches, I have lots of shoulder area (which is what actually keeps things from racking). I then used BIG lag screws, like the 1/2 inch variety to screw through the tenons and cheeks.

The maple top rests on "bearers", the top is not fastened to the legs whatsoever. In the center of each bearer is a large diameter dowel with a large chamfer that registers the location of the top on the support structure. That idea might have come from the Workbench book, not sure anymore.

BTW, if you need to have a hard top surface there is nothing wrong with lamination .5 maple to the edges of those boards. I would do it before gluing up the top slab so that it is easier to clamp them down, no cauls required. Then just use a flush trim bit to get them flush.

Look forward to seeing your new bench!

[Prashun Patel]

+1. Thanks for the great ideas, Glen.

[Don Peters]

I built a bench out of yellow poplar forty years ago, and it's served me well. I'd do it again. Build it thick and as heavy as you can stand. Allow for some wood movement.

[Bill Houghton]

My grandfather worked as a carpenter/kitchen remodeler/furnituremaker for half or more of his career. His bench, which I have, was Douglas fir, which is similar to poplar in hardness and weight. Worked for him.

[Alex Burkhardt]

Do it.

Making a workbench out of what's cheap and readily available to you seems about as true to the craft as you could get. Keep in mind, too, that starting from 12/4 material will cut down on laminations.

I think i recall Rob Cosman mentioning in a video that he made one of his workbench bases from poplar simply because he stumbled across some in the 12/4 variety.

Use what you have!

[Stanley Covington]

Hate it when the timber industry does that. I've had someone at a local timber company absolutely insist that hickory is "the same as" pecan, even to the point of insisting that it's the same tree! Anyone that's ever tried to eat a hickory nut can tell you they aren't the same thing - neither is the wood from the two species, but it seems that in regards to timber industry standards, the workability characteristics make them "equivalent".

Happens a lot doesn't it.

Maple flooring and ballustrades and other partially processed wood called maple is perhaps 25% birch. Not sure it is ALWAYS planned that way, but I am sure little effort is made to prevent it. Theft in any case.

I have taught my suppliers and subcontractors the price they will pay if they do not properly sort materials per specs, a price that always makes the contract unprofitable or them.

[Mel Fulks]

Some of these mixes are actually written into industry specs ,or so I've been told. I remember getting some beech mixed in with birch and being told a percentage that was allowed in specs.

[Stanley Covington]

Some of these mixes are actually written into industry specs ,or so I've been told. I remember getting some beech mixed in with birch and being told a percentage that was allowed in specs.


Indeed they are. But I am not so silly as to use industry specs in my projects. They are written as minimal standards by the industry and for the convenience of the industry, and not to benefit the end-user.

[Kees Heiden]

I was thinking, all these threads about the proper wood for a bench. Wouldn't it be quicker to make a list of wood types the are NOT apropriate for a bench?

Let me start:
- Balsa, that one is obvious.
- Wester red cedar, probably really still too soft?
- Wenge, horrible to work with.
- Ebony, too expensive.

[David Eisenhauer]

David K: I was under the impression that hickory and pecan were (speaking in botanical terms or genetically I guess) were "95%" (or something close) the same species at the cellular level and that it takes a close, experienced inspection to tell the two apart. I don't know, just asking from someone who does. What are the differences, especially in the working characteristics?

[Stanley Covington]

David K: I was under the impression that hickory and pecan were (speaking in botanical terms or genetically I guess) were "95%" (or something close) the same species at the cellular level and that it takes a close, experienced inspection to tell the two apart. I don't know, just asking from someone who does. What are the differences, especially in the working characteristics?

Hickory is 8% denser, about the same hardness, but quite a bit stronger and stiffer:
Modulus of Rupture: +20%,
Elastic Modulus: +25%,
Crushing strength: +16%

Pecan shrinks less by total volume but the T/R shrinkage ratio is not as good as Hickory at 1.8 vs. 1.5.

95% of measurable physical characteristics are not really close.

http://www.wood-database.com/pecan/
http://www.wood-database.com/shagbark-hickory/

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks for the links Stanley. One of the links describes "various species of hickory and pecan being mixed together and sold as hickory", which agrees with my previous (general, non-educated) thoughts about the differences. I will use those links in the future.

[lowell holmes]

I cannot resist any longer, Is poplar popular for a workbench? :)

[Mike Baker 2]

I cannot resist any longer, Is poplar popular for a workbench? :)

I'm pining to know the answer. :p

[lowell holmes]

I made my base with fir and bought a maple top. Mine is a workbench top, kitchen counter tops work also. My top made as a workbench top.

My bench is stiff and has stood up to a lot of abuse. The members are 4x4 posts and 2X6 tee stretchers. The connections are all bolted connections. I chose fir over pine
because it is straighter. The bench is probably 20 tears old. I have a 2X12 maple front apron on it with 3/4 " holes for bench dogs and clamps. With the front vise on
one end dog holes in the front apron, I can clamp and hold anything. I cannot remember not being able to hold anything I wanted to work on.

I think design is more important than some other things. I can provide a cross section sketch of you want it. It might take a day or two to make the sketch.

[Mike Brady]

Now that you have a bunch of support for using your poplar, I'll be contrary and say why put the effort into making a good bench and use less-than-ideal wood ? Wait until you can access some ash or soft maple and then you can build a bench that will last more than a lifetime. Compromising might cause you regret for a lifetime. Ash would be cheaper than maple. Because of all the disease-kill ash around you could so source your wood for around $300. The vise hardware will be the same regardless of the wood.

A compromise could be to make the base from thick poplar and the top from maple. I did this once and found the bench to be very durable and stable. My forever bench is all 12/4 ash with laminated legs and top.